This is a typical case of "it's fine unless it causes a problem with other players". There's also an issue of "how much does it come up in games"; having it in your backstory is pretty innocuous, continually talking about it in game is liable to annoy or bore other players.
This is the proper answer. It really depends on the game, and the table in question. My first thought on it is that the question it self raises a red flag; why does it actually matter? What impact will it have?
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
This is a typical case of "it's fine unless it causes a problem with other players". There's also an issue of "how much does it come up in games"; having it in your backstory is pretty innocuous, continually talking about it in game is liable to annoy or bore other players.
This is the proper answer. It really depends on the game, and the table in question. My first thought on it is that the question it self raises a red flag; why does it actually matter? What impact will it have?
It is an issue because 'super attractive' is usually expected by the person who so describes their character to mean that people (both NPC's and PC's ) react to their character that one would expect them to act towards someone super attractive, i.e., for the word 'attractive' to mean something.
Attractive is no more controversial than strong or smart.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
This question came up, and I thought I would see what people thought: Can we play characters who are conventionally super attractive?
I would say, play what you want, with the caveat that it makes sense with the stats and background of the character. for instance the attractive himbo barbarian should have at least a +3 in charisma.
If you are a runway model for a character please have an 18 in charisma at level 1.
I don’t know, I know plenty of people who are drop dead gorgeous and have the personality of a brick. You can be physically attractive and still have Charisma as a dump stat
I'm going to quote the 2024 DMG for this.
Rules Aren’t Physics. The rules of the game are meant to provide a fun game experience, not to describe the laws of physics in the worlds of D&D, let alone the real world. Don’t let players argue that a bucket brigade of ordinary people can accelerate a spear to light speed by all using the Ready action to pass the spear to the next person in line. The Ready action facilitates heroic action; it doesn’t define the physical limitations of what can happen in a 6-second combat round.
a highly attractive but lacking charisma person IRL has no stat line or game mechanics I as the DM can use. D&D is a game, that has combat simulation, roleplay structured around rules, and game mechanics for social interactions. As comeliness is not a stat, and hasn't been one in 24+ years we use Charisma. If you are a DM and are willing to put up with that kind of shenanigans go for it, I quash it in my session 0, if you want to play something it must fit within the rules of the game.
I think maybe to make it fair attractiveness should align with charisma?
They're explicitly different things. Charisma is force of personality and the ability to influence people. For some uses of it, attractiveness may well be counterproductive. Who's more inherently intimidating? A guy who looks like an underwear model, or a guy who looks like three miles of bad road? In many uses, it's likely neutral. Deception is much more about your ability to spin a line than it is about how attractive you are.
And yes, in the real world, how attractive we think somebody is often does affect how people react to them. But D&D has chosen to separate the two entirely, and it makes sense, because the question of "what is attractive?", which is complex and inconsistent on earth, gets orders of magnitude more so when you introduce multiple intelligent species. A very attractive Goliath probably isn't to a High Elf.
And there's plenty of examples in the real world of people who are generally considered plain or even unattractive who nonetheless have become great successes at various charisma-based careers. (And also anyone you name will get people disagreeing about their attractiveness, because taste is not constant.) And I'm sure I'm not the only one who's observed that if you like somebody, they usually become more attractive to you.
As far as I'm concerned, players can make their characters as attractive or unattractive as they want, but good looks don't mean anything without the ability to use it.
there is no current game mechanic for that, you should not encourage people to RP outside the scope of the game mechanics. This is how we get people who think a peasant railgun is possible. sure you can speed the javelin along to a thousand miles per hour the final person in the chain makes an attack roll based on normal rules, and the javelin does damage at the normal stats. D20+dex; 1d6+dex+(Proficiency Bonus)
You can play any character you want. Just like you can make your avatar however you want it to look in some video games.
If it's online multiplayer or in a group setting like D&D and you identify/present/are a woman, you need to think long and hard and decide if it's worth it to you.
No one can make that choice for you - you may get lucky and find a good group. Or you may end up with a psycho stalker. Your mileage/experience may be (and I certainly hope) different from mine.
This question came up, and I thought I would see what people thought: Can we play characters who are conventionally super attractive?
I would say, play what you want, with the caveat that it makes sense with the stats and background of the character. for instance the attractive himbo barbarian should have at least a +3 in charisma.
If you are a runway model for a character please have an 18 in charisma at level 1.
I don’t know, I know plenty of people who are drop dead gorgeous and have the personality of a brick. You can be physically attractive and still have Charisma as a dump stat
I'm going to quote the 2024 DMG for this.
Rules Aren’t Physics. The rules of the game are meant to provide a fun game experience, not to describe the laws of physics in the worlds of D&D, let alone the real world. Don’t let players argue that a bucket brigade of ordinary people can accelerate a spear to light speed by all using the Ready action to pass the spear to the next person in line. The Ready action facilitates heroic action; it doesn’t define the physical limitations of what can happen in a 6-second combat round.
a highly attractive but lacking charisma person IRL has no stat line or game mechanics I as the DM can use. D&D is a game, that has combat simulation, roleplay structured around rules, and game mechanics for social interactions. As comeliness is not a stat, and hasn't been one in 24+ years we use Charisma. If you are a DM and are willing to put up with that kind of shenanigans go for it, I quash it in my session 0, if you want to play something it must fit within the rules of the game.
Sorry but I’m failing to see how the “don’t use the peasant rail gun” rule has any impact on this topic. As I said plenty of real world people are attractive and have zero charisma, you don’t need a rule in a book to allow a player to make their character attractive, the mechanics apply to just their Charisma stat and the role play is that they’re constantly a disappointment to people who judge books by their cover
This is a typical case of "it's fine unless it causes a problem with other players". There's also an issue of "how much does it come up in games"; having it in your backstory is pretty innocuous, continually talking about it in game is liable to annoy or bore other players.
This is the proper answer. It really depends on the game, and the table in question. My first thought on it is that the question it self raises a red flag; why does it actually matter? What impact will it have?
It is an issue because 'super attractive' is usually expected by the person who so describes their character to mean that people (both NPC's and PC's ) react to their character that one would expect them to act towards someone super attractive, i.e., for the word 'attractive' to mean something.
Oh I know, I wanted the OP to say it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Wait, are people saying that our character's physical description can't be whatever we want it to be? It is purely cosmetic and has no mechanical rules in the game. Why can't I be as pretty or as ugly as I want to be?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
I think maybe to make it fair attractiveness should align with charisma?
They're explicitly different things. Charisma is force of personality and the ability to influence people. For some uses of it, attractiveness may well be counterproductive. Who's more inherently intimidating? A guy who looks like an underwear model, or a guy who looks like three miles of bad road? In many uses, it's likely neutral. Deception is much more about your ability to spin a line than it is about how attractive you are.
And yes, in the real world, how attractive we think somebody is often does affect how people react to them. But D&D has chosen to separate the two entirely, and it makes sense, because the question of "what is attractive?", which is complex and inconsistent on earth, gets orders of magnitude more so when you introduce multiple intelligent species. A very attractive Goliath probably isn't to a High Elf.
And there's plenty of examples in the real world of people who are generally considered plain or even unattractive who nonetheless have become great successes at various charisma-based careers. (And also anyone you name will get people disagreeing about their attractiveness, because taste is not constant.) And I'm sure I'm not the only one who's observed that if you like somebody, they usually become more attractive to you.
As far as I'm concerned, players can make their characters as attractive or unattractive as they want, but good looks don't mean anything without the ability to use it.
there is no current game mechanic for that, you should not encourage people to RP outside the scope of the game mechanics. This is how we get people who think a peasant railgun is possible. sure you can speed the javelin along to a thousand miles per hour the final person in the chain makes an attack roll based on normal rules, and the javelin does damage at the normal stats. D20+dex; 1d6+dex+(Proficiency Bonus)
I don;t understand what you mean by "role-playing outside the mechanics". For one thing, people do that all the time. It's expected and normal. PC interacting with PC is almost never done with the social mechanics.
Appearance and Charisma are two separate things in-game, and only one has mechanics. Your character being attractive or unattractive has no game-mechanical effects and, like other matters of appearance, can be left to the players.
(And I'm not sure why you're bringing the peasant railgun into this. It's a non-sequitur as far as I can tell.)
Attractive is no more controversial than strong or smart.
Attractive with low charisma and the attractiveness being expected to have benefits is like a person saying their low strength character looks strong, therefore should be able to lift and/or hit as well as a high strength character, or ignoring their character's low intelligence stat when playing them.
RP as far as general personality, sure but it ignoring character stats is not good role playing.
Attractive is no more controversial than strong or smart.
Attractive with low charisma and the attractiveness being expected to have benefits is like a person saying their low strength character looks strong, therefore should be able to lift and/or hit as well as a high strength character, or ignoring their character's low intelligence stat when playing them.
RP as far as general personality, sure but it ignoring character stats is not good role playing.
Did someone in this thread advocate for mechanical benefits for a non mechanical aspect of the game? I will read back through the thread, but I don't remember seeing that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
Attractive is no more controversial than strong or smart.
Attractive with low charisma and the attractiveness being expected to have benefits is like a person saying their low strength character looks strong, therefore should be able to lift and/or hit as well as a high strength character, or ignoring their character's low intelligence stat when playing them.
RP as far as general personality, sure but it ignoring character stats is not good role playing.
Did someone in this thread advocate for mechanical benefits for a non mechanical aspect of the game? I will read back through the thread, but I don't remember seeing that.
If it has no meaning, then is that really describing the character using a term that normally has meaning?
Playing a super attractive character vs the character describing themself as super attractive, whether they really are or are not.
Edit: And the poster I was responding to specifically was equating attractiveness with strength or intelligence, both of which have clear mechanical effects.
Charisma score measures confidence, poise, and charm.
You make Charisma checks to Influence, entertain, or deceive.
It's all about that in 5E social interactions.
But keeping in mind that advantage and disadvantage are at the discretion of the DM, would a DM be unreasonable for physical attractiveness to have at least the potential to be a reason for advantage? Or at least a player's argument that it should, be reasonable?
It could be reasonable for a DM to apply Advantage or Disadvantage to a Charisma check if it determine attractiveness reflects positive or negative circumstances in any given social interaction.
May be not as much for a player character to believe it should always get Advantage to Charisma checks based on it's pretty appearance.
It's tricky because tastes are subjective, and while the DM govern NPC taste, and a player does for it's own character, it's usually not welcome for a DM to assumes PCs taste, or for a player to assume NPCs one.
It could be reasonable for a DM to apply Advantage or Disadvantage to a Charisma check if it determine attractiveness reflects positive or negative circumstances in any given social interaction.
May be not as much for a player character to believe it should always get Advantage to Charisma checks based on it's pretty appearance.
It's tricky because tastes are subjective, and while the DM govern NPC taste, and a player does for it's own character, it's usually not welcome for a DM to assumes PCs taste, or for a player to assume NPCs one.
But that tastes are subjective just makes the concept more complicated rather than making it go away. Again, the OP is asking about the character being "Super Attractive," with no qualifier as to subjectivity or the standards of any given individual.
It could be reasonable for a DM to apply Advantage or Disadvantage to a Charisma check if it determine attractiveness reflects positive or negative circumstances in any given social interaction.
May be not as much for a player character to believe it should always get Advantage to Charisma checks based on it's pretty appearance.
It's tricky because tastes are subjective, and while the DM govern NPC taste, and a player does for it's own character, it's usually not welcome for a DM to assumes PCs taste, or for a player to assume NPCs one.
But that tastes are subjective just makes the concept more complicated rather than making it go away. Again, the OP is asking about the character being "Super Attractive," with no qualifier as to subjectivity or the standards of any given individual.
They also didn't imply any mechanical effects. Any possible mechanical effects are made up because the Rules As Written provide none. Any benefit or drawbacks for a character's appearance are strictly homebrew.
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Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
It could be reasonable for a DM to apply Advantage or Disadvantage to a Charisma check if it determine attractiveness reflects positive or negative circumstances in any given social interaction.
May be not as much for a player character to believe it should always get Advantage to Charisma checks based on it's pretty appearance.
It's tricky because tastes are subjective, and while the DM govern NPC taste, and a player does for it's own character, it's usually not welcome for a DM to assumes PCs taste, or for a player to assume NPCs one.
But that tastes are subjective just makes the concept more complicated rather than making it go away. Again, the OP is asking about the character being "Super Attractive," with no qualifier as to subjectivity or the standards of any given individual.
They also didn't imply any mechanical effects. Any possible mechanical effects are made up because the Rules As Written provide none. Any benefit or drawbacks for a character's appearance are strictly homebrew.
The OP was not asking if there was any official rule for attractiveness, though. They were asking if it was to play a 'super attractive' character without defining what they mean by that or their expectations of what that would mean in a campaign.
And since there is no such term in the rules, at all, just having that as a declared aspect of their character would be 'strictly homebrew.'
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This is the proper answer. It really depends on the game, and the table in question. My first thought on it is that the question it self raises a red flag; why does it actually matter? What impact will it have?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It is an issue because 'super attractive' is usually expected by the person who so describes their character to mean that people (both NPC's and PC's ) react to their character that one would expect them to act towards someone super attractive, i.e., for the word 'attractive' to mean something.
Attractive is no more controversial than strong or smart.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I'm going to quote the 2024 DMG for this.
a highly attractive but lacking charisma person IRL has no stat line or game mechanics I as the DM can use. D&D is a game, that has combat simulation, roleplay structured around rules, and game mechanics for social interactions. As comeliness is not a stat, and hasn't been one in 24+ years we use Charisma. If you are a DM and are willing to put up with that kind of shenanigans go for it, I quash it in my session 0, if you want to play something it must fit within the rules of the game.
there is no current game mechanic for that, you should not encourage people to RP outside the scope of the game mechanics. This is how we get people who think a peasant railgun is possible. sure you can speed the javelin along to a thousand miles per hour the final person in the chain makes an attack roll based on normal rules, and the javelin does damage at the normal stats. D20+dex; 1d6+dex+(Proficiency Bonus)
High charisma (and social skills) is "people react well to you, for unspecified reasons". That doesn't have to mean attractiveness -- but it could.
You can play any character you want. Just like you can make your avatar however you want it to look in some video games.
If it's online multiplayer or in a group setting like D&D and you identify/present/are a woman, you need to think long and hard and decide if it's worth it to you.
No one can make that choice for you - you may get lucky and find a good group. Or you may end up with a psycho stalker. Your mileage/experience may be (and I certainly hope) different from mine.
Sorry but I’m failing to see how the “don’t use the peasant rail gun” rule has any impact on this topic. As I said plenty of real world people are attractive and have zero charisma, you don’t need a rule in a book to allow a player to make their character attractive, the mechanics apply to just their Charisma stat and the role play is that they’re constantly a disappointment to people who judge books by their cover
Oh I know, I wanted the OP to say it.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Wait, are people saying that our character's physical description can't be whatever we want it to be? It is purely cosmetic and has no mechanical rules in the game. Why can't I be as pretty or as ugly as I want to be?
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
I don;t understand what you mean by "role-playing outside the mechanics". For one thing, people do that all the time. It's expected and normal. PC interacting with PC is almost never done with the social mechanics.
Appearance and Charisma are two separate things in-game, and only one has mechanics. Your character being attractive or unattractive has no game-mechanical effects and, like other matters of appearance, can be left to the players.
(And I'm not sure why you're bringing the peasant railgun into this. It's a non-sequitur as far as I can tell.)
Attractive with low charisma and the attractiveness being expected to have benefits is like a person saying their low strength character looks strong, therefore should be able to lift and/or hit as well as a high strength character, or ignoring their character's low intelligence stat when playing them.
RP as far as general personality, sure but it ignoring character stats is not good role playing.
Did someone in this thread advocate for mechanical benefits for a non mechanical aspect of the game? I will read back through the thread, but I don't remember seeing that.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
If it has no meaning, then is that really describing the character using a term that normally has meaning?
Playing a super attractive character vs the character describing themself as super attractive, whether they really are or are not.
Edit: And the poster I was responding to specifically was equating attractiveness with strength or intelligence, both of which have clear mechanical effects.
Charisma score measures confidence, poise, and charm.
You make Charisma checks to Influence, entertain, or deceive.
It's all about that in 5E social interactions.
But keeping in mind that advantage and disadvantage are at the discretion of the DM, would a DM be unreasonable for physical attractiveness to have at least the potential to be a reason for advantage? Or at least a player's argument that it should, be reasonable?
It could be reasonable for a DM to apply Advantage or Disadvantage to a Charisma check if it determine attractiveness reflects positive or negative circumstances in any given social interaction.
May be not as much for a player character to believe it should always get Advantage to Charisma checks based on it's pretty appearance.
It's tricky because tastes are subjective, and while the DM govern NPC taste, and a player does for it's own character, it's usually not welcome for a DM to assumes PCs taste, or for a player to assume NPCs one.
But that tastes are subjective just makes the concept more complicated rather than making it go away. Again, the OP is asking about the character being "Super Attractive," with no qualifier as to subjectivity or the standards of any given individual.
They also didn't imply any mechanical effects. Any possible mechanical effects are made up because the Rules As Written provide none. Any benefit or drawbacks for a character's appearance are strictly homebrew.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
The OP was not asking if there was any official rule for attractiveness, though. They were asking if it was to play a 'super attractive' character without defining what they mean by that or their expectations of what that would mean in a campaign.
And since there is no such term in the rules, at all, just having that as a declared aspect of their character would be 'strictly homebrew.'