Typically that’s more in symmetric games, to avoid one burst of RNG tipping the scales too far
You see it in video games (e.g. BG3), though I don't think most video games use a card-like mechanic. There are a few (mostly obscure) RPGs that use them; probably the highest profile would be the SAGA system. In any case, I wasn't addressing using cards to exactly replicate d20 mechanics, I was pointing out that there are things you can do with cards that you can't do with dice, and some of them might be interesting.
You mention the OP who hasn't said anything about the legendary bundle and than go on a rand fully about the legendary bundle; which, as has been mentioned multiple times, is pretty irrelevant to this discussion.
If that is the scale we're using, the OP said nothing about the free options to play either, yet there are far more posts about that than discount stacking.
Discount stacking at least can be associated with the cost of content on this site.
Discount stacking at least can be associated with the cost of content on this site.
Yeah, but the base prices of the content hasn't increased since release. To my knowledge, no digital product has seen a price increase once it hits the store. The price is static. And while discount stacking may have reduced the price, given time, there have been deals on older content that are better than what would have been even with the bundle discount applied. If a person was financially secure enough to purchase a bundle, but, due to circumstances, is now not secure enough to purchase content at release prices, then all they have to do is wait for a good sale to come across and they should be fine.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
The Legendary Bundle has not been feasible to purchase for many years now; the only ones to whom the idea of the Legendary Bundle being on affordable way to save on future purchases are those who acquired it in its first year or two of existence. Anyone who can acquire the Legendary Bundle these days has no business complaining about the cost of the hobby, with or without a stacking discount.
Given that the number of people for whom this is a legitimate problem is small and unable to ever get larger, perhaps a heavy focus on restoring a discount only a few thousand fortunate souls will ever be able to actually benefit from is counterproductive? Seasonal product sales seem overall fairer, allowing everyone to benefit from periodic discounts without first requiring the purchase of what may well be a five-digit package deal first. As much as I despise the idea personally, perhaps a new subscription tier could allow for some level of monthly credit built up towards book purchases in the system, so frequent purchasers can get more benefit from a subscription - or, alternately, Infrequent purchasers can simply gain the small handful of books they want as part of their subscription, the way many players claim to desire.
As much as I despise the idea personally, perhaps a new subscription tier could allow for some level of monthly credit built up towards book purchases in the system, so frequent purchasers can get more benefit from a subscription - or, alternately, Infrequent purchasers can simply gain the small handful of books they want as part of their subscription, the way many players claim to desire.
I miss the 4th ed subscription for full access model so very much....
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
It seems that some people have really lost the thread... Stacking discounts? Legendary bundles? None of that was indicated as the problem in the OP, though the people (person?) who keeps bringing them up seems to think they did.
...being on a fixed income...I can't afford any of this new content being released. Wizards picked a horrible timeto increase prices.
Anyone else feeling the pinch?
While the OP didn't specify, I think social security is a decent assumption for "fixed income" and social security payments adjust for inflation. Even if it's not, many pensions also adjust for inflation. So unless the OP is on a truly FIXED income, inflation will be accounted for in some way (though perhaps not as well as it should). However, that masks the actual complaint: that prices have gone up and done so very recently (see bolded quotes above). The appropriate response is to point out that the primary assumption is incorrect. Prices have not gone up in any real sense. Perhaps they are truly "feeling the pinch", but it's not because prices have increased, or that discounts have been reduced, or that certain discounts no longer apply. It's fairly clear from the language used that the OP is simply feeling FOMO and it's actually the pace of releases that has increased. Seeing as this is a new phenomenon in the eyes of the OP, it appears they are referencing the influx of third party content being sold on the site. Just a few posts after the OP was a response that really should have been the end of the discussion:
...being on a fixed income, which has been greatly reduced since Trump took office, I can't afford any of this new content being released. Wizards picked a horrible time to increase prices.
Anyone else feeling the pinch?
Firstly, I don't believe WotC has increased prices? Unless you're referring to the two starter sets which while are more expensive than previous sets, that's because they have a lot more in them. But even if we do count that as a price increase, that's not pricing you "out of the hobby"—they're starter sets, ie for people not already in hobby. If you're already playing, you don't need them, let alone to keep playing.
As for products aimed at people already invested, Dragon Delve's is at the same MSRP as all other books have been since the price increase way back (a price increase that tracks below inflation FYI) and Forge of the Artificer is below the average MSRP.
This isn't even addressing the most important part; you don't need to keep buying new books to keep playing D&D. Ignoring the massive volume of free content, you could literally dust off the 2014 core rulebooks, or hell the free basic rules, and play for literal years.
So I don't see how anyone is being "priced out of the hobby"—prices don't appear to be increasing, you don't need to buy anything to keep playing, and you don't even need to buy anything to start playing.
Lastly, it's interesting to note that the OP hasn't come back to this thread once to respond in the 8 days it's been up.
Discount stacking at least can be associated with the cost of content on this site.
Yeah, but the base prices of the content hasn't increased since release. To my knowledge, no digital product has seen a price increase once it hits the store. The price is static. And while discount stacking may have reduced the price, given time, there have been deals on older content that are better than what would have been even with the bundle discount applied. If a person was financially secure enough to purchase a bundle, but, due to circumstances, is now not secure enough to purchase content at release prices, then all they have to do is wait for a good sale to come across and they should be fine.
While the dollar amounts haven't changed, dndbeyond did make things more expensive by removing the budget option of buying just part of the content from a book.
Discount stacking at least can be associated with the cost of content on this site.
Yeah, but the base prices of the content hasn't increased since release. To my knowledge, no digital product has seen a price increase once it hits the store. The price is static. And while discount stacking may have reduced the price, given time, there have been deals on older content that are better than what would have been even with the bundle discount applied. If a person was financially secure enough to purchase a bundle, but, due to circumstances, is now not secure enough to purchase content at release prices, then all they have to do is wait for a good sale to come across and they should be fine.
They did increase for those with the bundle discounts waiting for sales to take advantage of a key part of buying the bundles. By 10-15% depending on the bundle purchased.
Discount stacking at least can be associated with the cost of content on this site.
Yeah, but the base prices of the content hasn't increased since release. To my knowledge, no digital product has seen a price increase once it hits the store. The price is static. And while discount stacking may have reduced the price, given time, there have been deals on older content that are better than what would have been even with the bundle discount applied. If a person was financially secure enough to purchase a bundle, but, due to circumstances, is now not secure enough to purchase content at release prices, then all they have to do is wait for a good sale to come across and they should be fine.
They did increase for those with the bundle discounts waiting for sales to take advantage of a key part of buying the bundles. By 10-15% depending on the bundle purchased.
$3-5 a book! The horror!
Spin as hard as you want, the objective fact is that D&D has an extremely low entry threshold for a hobby and pound for pound the baseline content prices have only gradually shifted in response to market forces. Do all the various other market forces result in products being moved out of some people's price range? Yes. Is that because WotC is specifically jacking up prices to squeeze the playerbase for every red cent? No; it's an inevitable consequence of all the other stuff happening in the world changing how much disposable income people have, as well as what offers are fiscally practical for WotC to offer.
It seems that some people have really lost the thread... Stacking discounts? Legendary bundles? None of that was indicated as the problem in the OP, though the people (person?) who keeps bringing them up seems to think they did.
...being on a fixed income...I can't afford any of this new content being released. Wizards picked a horrible timeto increase prices.
Anyone else feeling the pinch?
While the OP didn't specify, I think social security is a decent assumption for "fixed income" and social security payments adjust for inflation. Even if it's not, many pensions also adjust for inflation. So unless the OP is on a truly FIXED income, inflation will be accounted for in some way (though perhaps not as well as it should). However, that masks the actual complaint: that prices have gone up and done so very recently (see bolded quotes above). The appropriate response is to point out that the primary assumption is incorrect. Prices have not gone up in any real sense. Perhaps they are truly "feeling the pinch", but it's not because prices have increased, or that discounts have been reduced, or that certain discounts no longer apply. It's fairly clear from the language used that the OP is simply feeling FOMO and it's actually the pace of releases that has increased. Seeing as this is a new phenomenon in the eyes of the OP, it appears they are referencing the influx of third party content being sold on the site. Just a few posts after the OP was a response that really should have been the end of the discussion:
...being on a fixed income, which has been greatly reduced since Trump took office, I can't afford any of this new content being released. Wizards picked a horrible time to increase prices.
Anyone else feeling the pinch?
Firstly, I don't believe WotC has increased prices? Unless you're referring to the two starter sets which while are more expensive than previous sets, that's because they have a lot more in them. But even if we do count that as a price increase, that's not pricing you "out of the hobby"—they're starter sets, ie for people not already in hobby. If you're already playing, you don't need them, let alone to keep playing.
As for products aimed at people already invested, Dragon Delve's is at the same MSRP as all other books have been since the price increase way back (a price increase that tracks below inflation FYI) and Forge of the Artificer is below the average MSRP.
This isn't even addressing the most important part; you don't need to keep buying new books to keep playing D&D. Ignoring the massive volume of free content, you could literally dust off the 2014 core rulebooks, or hell the free basic rules, and play for literal years.
So I don't see how anyone is being "priced out of the hobby"—prices don't appear to be increasing, you don't need to buy anything to keep playing, and you don't even need to buy anything to start playing.
Lastly, it's interesting to note that the OP hasn't come back to this thread once to respond in the 8 days it's been up.
The OP didn't mention most of what has been brought up in this thread. Bundle discount stacking is just as valid to discuss as everything else in this thread. It literally caused prices to go up for those that bought the bundles and waited for the books they wanted to go on sale. The free to playing reference to the OP is likely the most illogical simply because of the context of the OP citing buying the new content as the concern. Not inability to play the game at all, and as many have pointed out there hasn't been a real price increase on digital content other than to those that bought and used the discount stacking. Even though it seems to be an unpopular topic that many don't seem to see it as the price increase it is.
The legendary bundle stacking with discounts is a perceived issue, not a significant one. It is, of, course, a bad look for Wizards, since they went back on their word for it, but in terms of actual effect and pricing harm? Probably not very many influenced by it due to how many different small factions of the community you must be simultaneously part of in order for it to be a meaningful impediment. For this to prove a difficulty, one must meet all of the following criteria:
1. Be an account older than March 2024 when the bundle was removed.
2. Have had sufficient disposable income at the time to buy the legendary bundle, as well as have a desire to own all the content.
3. Despite having once had a desire to rapidly purchase everything, now be willing to hold off for sales (which, for new content, can take a significant amount of time).
4. Despite having once had disposable income to purchase something that cost over a thousand dollars, now be priced out because of a $4-7 difference in price.
I think Wizards acted in bad faith in removing a benefit the bundle conferred. But I am guessing it is an extremely small issue given small a subsection of the forum is probably actually priced out due to the change. Anecdotally, this thread kind of proves that point - for days the topic of the discount has been raised, but not a single user in that time, either in posts or upvotes, has contributed that meets all criteria above.
If a topic is discussed for days without anyone it actually harms chiming in and saying they are priced out that is pretty telling that the issue is not a real issue.
You mention the OP who hasn't said anything about the legendary bundle and than go on a rand fully about the legendary bundle; which, as has been mentioned multiple times, is pretty irrelevant to this discussion.
If that is the scale we're using, the OP said nothing about the free options to play either, yet there are far more posts about that than discount stacking.
Discount stacking at least can be associated with the cost of content on this site.
Replies aside, talking about the free options is a direct response to the OPs claim. They're claiming they're being priced out, while ignoring the free options.
You mention the OP who hasn't said anything about the legendary bundle and than go on a rand fully about the legendary bundle; which, as has been mentioned multiple times, is pretty irrelevant to this discussion.
If that is the scale we're using, the OP said nothing about the free options to play either, yet there are far more posts about that than discount stacking.
Discount stacking at least can be associated with the cost of content on this site.
Replies aside, talking about the free options is a direct response to the OPs claim. They're claiming they're being priced out, while ignoring the free options.
Thats. The. Point.
If they were using the free options why would they claim to be priced out? If you are only interested in the free stuff price wouldn't be a concern.
No, it is on topic to help the OP understand that they are not being priced out of the game and that there are a myriad of options available for them to enjoy the game. Fixate on this off-topic discussion if you want though.
Where did the OP ask for cheaper or free options? They asked if anyone else was feeling the pinch related to the cost of content that is for sale. The argument of free content is just a red herring being used to draw attention away from the question asked as well as discussion about other ways costs have been increased by removing options from the site.
No, it is on topic to help the OP understand that they are not being priced out of the game and that there are a myriad of options available for them to enjoy the game. Fixate on this off-topic discussion if you want though.
Where did the OP ask for cheaper or free options? They asked if anyone else was feeling the pinch related to the cost of content that is for sale. The argument of free content is just a red herring being used to draw attention away from the question asked as well as discussion about other ways costs have been increased by removing options from the site.
OP raises two substantive issues in their post:
1. That they are priced out of the game. This is impossible since the price of the game can be free - if they are feeling "priced out" that is their fault and their choice.
2. That the books are getting more expensive. This is simply wrong and comes from a lack of understanding of how money works. It is an objective fact that the most recent core books are the least expensive since 1978 when you account for inflation.
Talking about free content directly addresses point one and is therefore relevant to this thread as it responds to point 1.
Talking about the math as to why D&D is not actually increasing in price is relevant to this thread as it responds to point 2.
Talking about the legendary bundle and sales is not relevant to either of those two points and is therefore not constructive, helpful, or relevant to this thread.
Found a recent post by a legendary bundle owner concerned about $13, it seems there are people who bought the legendary bundle making decisions based on dollar amounts being dismissed as trivial in this thread.
No, it is on topic to help the OP understand that they are not being priced out of the game and that there are a myriad of options available for them to enjoy the game. Fixate on this off-topic discussion if you want though.
Where did the OP ask for cheaper or free options? They asked if anyone else was feeling the pinch related to the cost of content that is for sale. The argument of free content is just a red herring being used to draw attention away from the question asked as well as discussion about other ways costs have been increased by removing options from the site.
Except the overwhelming consensus here is no, people are not "feeling the pinch"; the price bump is minimal for people who can afford to regularly purchase books, with or without a discount that most people never qualified for in the first place stacking on top of sales, and ALC is coming up a lot more as a "what about" than a make a break for people remaining engaged. The 3PP can breed FOMO with all the extra content flying around, but again in terms of pound for pound value the only claim since the OP of a table being impacted by the prices is from a FLGS selling at well over MSRP, which is not something WotC has any control over. There's no red herring because nothing in this body of dialogue indicates there's an endemic issue.
Found a recent post by a legendary bundle owner concerned about $13, it seems there are people who bought the legendary bundle making decisions based on dollar amounts being dismissed as trivial in this thread.
One person complaining about a sum of money equal to the price of a mid quality fast food meal after they spent three to four figures in one go. Truly a sign of how hard the times are.
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You see it in video games (e.g. BG3), though I don't think most video games use a card-like mechanic. There are a few (mostly obscure) RPGs that use them; probably the highest profile would be the SAGA system. In any case, I wasn't addressing using cards to exactly replicate d20 mechanics, I was pointing out that there are things you can do with cards that you can't do with dice, and some of them might be interesting.
If that is the scale we're using, the OP said nothing about the free options to play either, yet there are far more posts about that than discount stacking.
Discount stacking at least can be associated with the cost of content on this site.
Yeah, but the base prices of the content hasn't increased since release. To my knowledge, no digital product has seen a price increase once it hits the store. The price is static. And while discount stacking may have reduced the price, given time, there have been deals on older content that are better than what would have been even with the bundle discount applied. If a person was financially secure enough to purchase a bundle, but, due to circumstances, is now not secure enough to purchase content at release prices, then all they have to do is wait for a good sale to come across and they should be fine.
Only if you actually have the bundle... which, given that the OP didn't mention it, is probably not the case for the OP.
The Legendary Bundle has not been feasible to purchase for many years now; the only ones to whom the idea of the Legendary Bundle being on affordable way to save on future purchases are those who acquired it in its first year or two of existence. Anyone who can acquire the Legendary Bundle these days has no business complaining about the cost of the hobby, with or without a stacking discount.
Given that the number of people for whom this is a legitimate problem is small and unable to ever get larger, perhaps a heavy focus on restoring a discount only a few thousand fortunate souls will ever be able to actually benefit from is counterproductive? Seasonal product sales seem overall fairer, allowing everyone to benefit from periodic discounts without first requiring the purchase of what may well be a five-digit package deal first. As much as I despise the idea personally, perhaps a new subscription tier could allow for some level of monthly credit built up towards book purchases in the system, so frequent purchasers can get more benefit from a subscription - or, alternately, Infrequent purchasers can simply gain the small handful of books they want as part of their subscription, the way many players claim to desire.
Please do not contact or message me.
I miss the 4th ed subscription for full access model so very much....
It seems that some people have really lost the thread... Stacking discounts? Legendary bundles? None of that was indicated as the problem in the OP, though the people (person?) who keeps bringing them up seems to think they did.
While the OP didn't specify, I think social security is a decent assumption for "fixed income" and social security payments adjust for inflation. Even if it's not, many pensions also adjust for inflation. So unless the OP is on a truly FIXED income, inflation will be accounted for in some way (though perhaps not as well as it should). However, that masks the actual complaint: that prices have gone up and done so very recently (see bolded quotes above). The appropriate response is to point out that the primary assumption is incorrect. Prices have not gone up in any real sense. Perhaps they are truly "feeling the pinch", but it's not because prices have increased, or that discounts have been reduced, or that certain discounts no longer apply. It's fairly clear from the language used that the OP is simply feeling FOMO and it's actually the pace of releases that has increased. Seeing as this is a new phenomenon in the eyes of the OP, it appears they are referencing the influx of third party content being sold on the site. Just a few posts after the OP was a response that really should have been the end of the discussion:
Lastly, it's interesting to note that the OP hasn't come back to this thread once to respond in the 8 days it's been up.
While the dollar amounts haven't changed, dndbeyond did make things more expensive by removing the budget option of buying just part of the content from a book.
They did increase for those with the bundle discounts waiting for sales to take advantage of a key part of buying the bundles. By 10-15% depending on the bundle purchased.
$3-5 a book! The horror!
Spin as hard as you want, the objective fact is that D&D has an extremely low entry threshold for a hobby and pound for pound the baseline content prices have only gradually shifted in response to market forces. Do all the various other market forces result in products being moved out of some people's price range? Yes. Is that because WotC is specifically jacking up prices to squeeze the playerbase for every red cent? No; it's an inevitable consequence of all the other stuff happening in the world changing how much disposable income people have, as well as what offers are fiscally practical for WotC to offer.
The OP didn't mention most of what has been brought up in this thread. Bundle discount stacking is just as valid to discuss as everything else in this thread. It literally caused prices to go up for those that bought the bundles and waited for the books they wanted to go on sale. The free to playing reference to the OP is likely the most illogical simply because of the context of the OP citing buying the new content as the concern. Not inability to play the game at all, and as many have pointed out there hasn't been a real price increase on digital content other than to those that bought and used the discount stacking. Even though it seems to be an unpopular topic that many don't seem to see it as the price increase it is.
The legendary bundle stacking with discounts is a perceived issue, not a significant one. It is, of, course, a bad look for Wizards, since they went back on their word for it, but in terms of actual effect and pricing harm? Probably not very many influenced by it due to how many different small factions of the community you must be simultaneously part of in order for it to be a meaningful impediment. For this to prove a difficulty, one must meet all of the following criteria:
1. Be an account older than March 2024 when the bundle was removed.
2. Have had sufficient disposable income at the time to buy the legendary bundle, as well as have a desire to own all the content.
3. Despite having once had a desire to rapidly purchase everything, now be willing to hold off for sales (which, for new content, can take a significant amount of time).
4. Despite having once had disposable income to purchase something that cost over a thousand dollars, now be priced out because of a $4-7 difference in price.
I think Wizards acted in bad faith in removing a benefit the bundle conferred. But I am guessing it is an extremely small issue given small a subsection of the forum is probably actually priced out due to the change. Anecdotally, this thread kind of proves that point - for days the topic of the discount has been raised, but not a single user in that time, either in posts or upvotes, has contributed that meets all criteria above.
If a topic is discussed for days without anyone it actually harms chiming in and saying they are priced out that is pretty telling that the issue is not a real issue.
Replies aside, talking about the free options is a direct response to the OPs claim. They're claiming they're being priced out, while ignoring the free options.
Thats. The. Point.
If they were using the free options why would they claim to be priced out? If you are only interested in the free stuff price wouldn't be a concern.
Given that the OP hasn't returned, perhaps we should just abandon this thread?
Where did the OP ask for cheaper or free options? They asked if anyone else was feeling the pinch related to the cost of content that is for sale. The argument of free content is just a red herring being used to draw attention away from the question asked as well as discussion about other ways costs have been increased by removing options from the site.
OP raises two substantive issues in their post:
1. That they are priced out of the game. This is impossible since the price of the game can be free - if they are feeling "priced out" that is their fault and their choice.
2. That the books are getting more expensive. This is simply wrong and comes from a lack of understanding of how money works. It is an objective fact that the most recent core books are the least expensive since 1978 when you account for inflation.
Talking about free content directly addresses point one and is therefore relevant to this thread as it responds to point 1.
Talking about the math as to why D&D is not actually increasing in price is relevant to this thread as it responds to point 2.
Talking about the legendary bundle and sales is not relevant to either of those two points and is therefore not constructive, helpful, or relevant to this thread.
Found a recent post by a legendary bundle owner concerned about $13, it seems there are people who bought the legendary bundle making decisions based on dollar amounts being dismissed as trivial in this thread.
Except the overwhelming consensus here is no, people are not "feeling the pinch"; the price bump is minimal for people who can afford to regularly purchase books, with or without a discount that most people never qualified for in the first place stacking on top of sales, and ALC is coming up a lot more as a "what about" than a make a break for people remaining engaged. The 3PP can breed FOMO with all the extra content flying around, but again in terms of pound for pound value the only claim since the OP of a table being impacted by the prices is from a FLGS selling at well over MSRP, which is not something WotC has any control over. There's no red herring because nothing in this body of dialogue indicates there's an endemic issue.
One person complaining about a sum of money equal to the price of a mid quality fast food meal after they spent three to four figures in one go. Truly a sign of how hard the times are.