Lets say I start a character as a warlock, and pick up agonising blast, so I get to add CHA bonuses to Eldritch blast.
I then get level 6 as a draconic sorcerer, child of an Amethyst dragon, so I can add CHA bonuses to force damage.
I then get up to level 11 as an evoker mage, adding INT bonuses to evocation damage.
And just for a laugh, find some weirdo priest class thats all about physical or raw magic damage, so I can add my WIS in too.
Do I get to add all those bonuses together on Eldritch Blast, as it is both force and evocation, OR, would I just use whichever is the single best bonus?
(EB doing 80+4D10 isnt unfair, is it? lol. additional, x2 with quickened or twinned spell).
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When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
RAW you cannot do the Sorcerer one because Amethyst dragon/Force damage is not an option in the subclass. Also, you only get to add the mod to a single damage roll per spell. Empowered Evocation isn’t compatible in the first place because it only works on Wizard spells, and once again would only add the mod to one damage roll per cast. The Cleric Potent Cantrips effect likewise is not compatible with Eldritch Blast because EB is not a Cleric cantrip.
Ahha, if I may! (I know I'm stretching the point, but what the hell).
Theres not really any reason to disallow an amethyst draconic sorcerer. There are amethyst dragonborn (in Fizbans Treasury of Dragons), and force spells in every level, and so on. if a DM allows it, why not. As for wizard and cleric (and sorcerer), you could possibly take the magic initiate feat, like with each class, and each one takes Eldritch blast as a cantrip.
This isnt really about what classes can and can not. its about can you add multiple stat bonuses to a single spell.
For example, similar question. Celestial Warlock (bonus fire and radiant damage), plus Red/Gold/Brass Draconic sorcerer (bonus fire damage). Result, CHA of 20 = +10 fire damage.
I'm still guessing that its "pick the single best bonus, not all of them", but I don't know if thats cannon.
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When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
Magic Initiate wouldn’t let you treat the spell as being from another class. Plus, as of 2024, you can only use it for Cleric, Druid, or Wizard spells.
In point of fact, it is about what classes can/cannot, because these effects are usually deliberately written to disallow this kind of stacking. If you can find a DM who is okay with it that’s fine, but by Rules As Written what you are describing is generally not possible.
Separate applicable effects can stack - Celestial Warlock’s Radiant Soul and Draconic Sorcerer’s Elemental affinity both can be simultaneously applicable to a fire spell, and you can add your charisma twice to a single instance of fire damage.
The problem with your first hypothetical is, as The_Ace_of_Rogues pointed out, that you were trying to stack effects that are not simultaneously applicable, as well as an effect that does not exist under the rules as written.
As for wizard and cleric (and sorcerer), you could possibly take the magic initiate feat, like with each class, and each one takes Eldritch blast as a cantrip.
Even in this scenario (which again isn’t possible because that’s not how MI works), you would have to choose which version of the spell to cast and thus which bonus applies. A single cast wouldn’t qualify for all these bonuses.
(I still think amethyst draconic sorcerer might work, but its only adding CHA once on the Eldritch Blast spell, not once for each individual beam)
There are mechanical reasons behind the exclusion of Amethyst Dragon.
Force damage is intentionally balanced around how rarely it is resisted - neither monsters nor players tend to get resistance to force damage. Allowing access to Draconic Amethyst Soul would give players a damage boost with a damage type nearly no monsters can resist. More importantly, however, it would also give players access to a resistance they are not really supposed to have, which therefore gives them resistance against monster attacks and spells intentionally designed with “players will almost certainly not resist this” in mind during the design stage.
I am not sure those are the most game breaking effects in the world (damage is, often, the least important thing in a well designed combat), but they are game design considerations Wizards almost certainly takes into account when designing and limiting abilities.
Amethyst Dragonborn are literally in, with guidelines for making characters, in Fizbans Treasury of Dragons, a 5e book.
And they're literally not listed as an option for the Draconic Sorcerer that was printed in the 2024 PHB, after Fizban's was published. It was a deliberate exclusion.
It’s a moot point either way. The existence of a gem dragonborn or of gem dragons themselves still doesn’t guarantee you’d be able to select gem dragons as your sorcerer’s draconic ancestry.
All books are compatible with the exception of the 2014e versions of the PHB, MM & DMG.
That's not how the compatibility works. The existence of Gem Dragons and Time Dragons and on and on doesn't mean you can grab their element and apply it to something like the Draconic Sorcerer subclass on your own initiative as a player. You can have a Gem Dragonborn PC that is then built using content from the 2024 PHB. You can use the Drakewarden or Way of the Ascendant Dragon subclasses with the 2024 Ranger or Monk (and note that neither gives you gem elements to play with for their features). You as a player cannot declare that your Draconic Sorcerer picks a gem dragon element for their 6th level feature- those are not listed as an option and there is no existing feature that expressly allows for a substitution.
"Hay DM, I want to play a gem dragonborn, or a variant human gem dragon descendant, and use their element for their draconic sorcerer class, that okay"?
"Yeah, but once you pick it, you're stuck with it. No switching to fire later cos there are more fire spells".
And that's how that conversation goes.
Anyway, there are other much more fun options. For example, Emerald dragonborn do psychic dragon, get to level 6 as draconic sorcerer for the psychic damage boost, then go bard, for a 'killer' Vicious Mockery.
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When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
Sure, but a question about whether something is possible doesn’t serve much purpose if you’re just going to change the rules to make it possible regardless.
Lets say I start a character as a warlock, and pick up agonising blast, so I get to add CHA bonuses to Eldritch blast.
I then get level 6 as a draconic sorcerer, child of an Amethyst dragon, so I can add CHA bonuses to force damage.
I then get up to level 11 as an evoker mage, adding INT bonuses to evocation damage.
And just for a laugh, find some weirdo priest class thats all about physical or raw magic damage, so I can add my WIS in too.
Do I get to add all those bonuses together on Eldritch Blast, as it is both force and evocation, OR, would I just use whichever is the single best bonus?
(EB doing 80+4D10 isnt unfair, is it? lol. additional, x2 with quickened or twinned spell).
When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
RAW you cannot do the Sorcerer one because Amethyst dragon/Force damage is not an option in the subclass. Also, you only get to add the mod to a single damage roll per spell. Empowered Evocation isn’t compatible in the first place because it only works on Wizard spells, and once again would only add the mod to one damage roll per cast. The Cleric Potent Cantrips effect likewise is not compatible with Eldritch Blast because EB is not a Cleric cantrip.
Ahha, if I may! (I know I'm stretching the point, but what the hell).
Theres not really any reason to disallow an amethyst draconic sorcerer. There are amethyst dragonborn (in Fizbans Treasury of Dragons), and force spells in every level, and so on. if a DM allows it, why not. As for wizard and cleric (and sorcerer), you could possibly take the magic initiate feat, like with each class, and each one takes Eldritch blast as a cantrip.
This isnt really about what classes can and can not. its about can you add multiple stat bonuses to a single spell.
For example, similar question. Celestial Warlock (bonus fire and radiant damage), plus Red/Gold/Brass Draconic sorcerer (bonus fire damage). Result, CHA of 20 = +10 fire damage.
I'm still guessing that its "pick the single best bonus, not all of them", but I don't know if thats cannon.
When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
Magic Initiate wouldn’t let you treat the spell as being from another class. Plus, as of 2024, you can only use it for Cleric, Druid, or Wizard spells.
In point of fact, it is about what classes can/cannot, because these effects are usually deliberately written to disallow this kind of stacking. If you can find a DM who is okay with it that’s fine, but by Rules As Written what you are describing is generally not possible.
Separate applicable effects can stack - Celestial Warlock’s Radiant Soul and Draconic Sorcerer’s Elemental affinity both can be simultaneously applicable to a fire spell, and you can add your charisma twice to a single instance of fire damage.
The problem with your first hypothetical is, as The_Ace_of_Rogues pointed out, that you were trying to stack effects that are not simultaneously applicable, as well as an effect that does not exist under the rules as written.
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ModeratorEven in this scenario (which again isn’t possible because that’s not how MI works), you would have to choose which version of the spell to cast and thus which bonus applies. A single cast wouldn’t qualify for all these bonuses.
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So, its a kind of partial success.
Yeah, I get that initial example was a tad extreme. and broken. and not workable.
But there can be some synergy between lock and sorcerer adding damage bonuses together, if they both apply.
(I still think amethyst draconic sorcerer might work, but its only adding CHA once on the Eldritch Blast spell, not once for each individual beam)
When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
There are mechanical reasons behind the exclusion of Amethyst Dragon.
Force damage is intentionally balanced around how rarely it is resisted - neither monsters nor players tend to get resistance to force damage. Allowing access to Draconic Amethyst Soul would give players a damage boost with a damage type nearly no monsters can resist. More importantly, however, it would also give players access to a resistance they are not really supposed to have, which therefore gives them resistance against monster attacks and spells intentionally designed with “players will almost certainly not resist this” in mind during the design stage.
I am not sure those are the most game breaking effects in the world (damage is, often, the least important thing in a well designed combat), but they are game design considerations Wizards almost certainly takes into account when designing and limiting abilities.
Amethyst Dragonborn are literally in, with guidelines for making characters, in Fizbans Treasury of Dragons, a 5e book.
When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
And they're literally not listed as an option for the Draconic Sorcerer that was printed in the 2024 PHB, after Fizban's was published. It was a deliberate exclusion.
Well that's a tad redundant. 2024 is backwards compatible.
All books are compatible with the exception of the 2014e versions of the PHB, MM & DMG.
When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
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ModeratorIt’s a moot point either way. The existence of a gem dragonborn or of gem dragons themselves still doesn’t guarantee you’d be able to select gem dragons as your sorcerer’s draconic ancestry.
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That's not how the compatibility works. The existence of Gem Dragons and Time Dragons and on and on doesn't mean you can grab their element and apply it to something like the Draconic Sorcerer subclass on your own initiative as a player. You can have a Gem Dragonborn PC that is then built using content from the 2024 PHB. You can use the Drakewarden or Way of the Ascendant Dragon subclasses with the 2024 Ranger or Monk (and note that neither gives you gem elements to play with for their features). You as a player cannot declare that your Draconic Sorcerer picks a gem dragon element for their 6th level feature- those are not listed as an option and there is no existing feature that expressly allows for a substitution.
"Hay DM, I want to play a gem dragonborn, or a variant human gem dragon descendant, and use their element for their draconic sorcerer class, that okay"?
"Yeah, but once you pick it, you're stuck with it. No switching to fire later cos there are more fire spells".
And that's how that conversation goes.
Anyway, there are other much more fun options. For example, Emerald dragonborn do psychic dragon, get to level 6 as draconic sorcerer for the psychic damage boost, then go bard, for a 'killer' Vicious Mockery.
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ModeratorSure, but a question about whether something is possible doesn’t serve much purpose if you’re just going to change the rules to make it possible regardless.
Need help with D&D Beyond? Come ask in the official D&D server on Discord: https://discord.gg/qWzGhwBjYr