My players are just about to return to the monastery, that was the early childhood home of the barbarian character.
He was born into a generational order of monks. However, his home and his people were destroyed by demons, after the the seal, that kept an abyssal portal closed was broken.
The demons killed his people, destroyed his home and one of them found him and his twin playing hide-and-seek in the forest.
The demon killed his twin but before it could kill him, it was killed itself by a barbarian. That barbarian then raised the young monk as his own son, teaching him how to fight and turning him into a barbarian like the rest of his adopted tribe.
All these years, he has believed his twin sister was killed, but I want to do something cool with his backstory.
I want to say that his sister did not die.- at least not entirely.
Essentially, I want to say that when she was attacked by the demon, it left parts of itself embedded in the wound and that the abyss used those remnants of the demon, to turn her from a young girl, into a powerful demon princess.
Essentially, it turned her into an avatar of the abyss, and is using its new avatar to make make sure that the monastery can never be rebuilt and the portal never closed. Basically, it's using its creation to protect itself, and ensure that it can remain in this world.
So to close the portal, the party will have to fight through a horde of demons and then face off against the abysses avatar - the demon princess Lilitu.
The problem is, that I am not sure if the Abyss is able to act on its own like this. Whats the official stance on the abyss and is it possible to interpret it as being capable of creating an avatar, as I have described?
I highly doubt there has been an "official" sort of stance on this kind of thing. That said, you've got a pretty solid trope that you are working around and I like the idea.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
The abyss is pure chaotic evil. Rather than having a will of its own, several of its layers are shaped by the will of a demon lord that lives there.
You can of course change whatever you want for a custom setting, but for the forgotten realms: a slain demon returns to the abyss to reform, it is possible it could bring its prey there with it. Once in the abyss, a creature would have to struggle to resist the abyss's corrupting influence or eventually become a demon themself.
I don't see any reason why the plane itself couldn't be sentient, or semi-sentient. It just allows those demons to live there, and allows powerful ones to shape parts of it, because, why not, I'm an entirely plane of existence, what do I care? :)
It doesn't have to be an 'intelligence' that they could even talk to or anything. Something like a plane of existence, if it was at all sentient, would be so alien to us, there's no reason why you can't just make up anything and everything, and change it willy nilly when you want. It can have intentions, influence, etc. Why not?
The Abyss is chaotic evil in nature, inhabited by powerful Tanar'ri and Obyriths. As described in MtoF, incursions onto the prime material, can corrupt it. It doesn't need the Demon Lords to do this. They just make it faster/messier.
So, corruption is a thing. Its the nature of the plane. Digging into the lore, Orcus was a mortal once before becoming a lord. So your story of corruption is very reasonable. Of course every demon lord considers themselves an avatar of the Abyss, so she's in good company. Will/did she overthrow Demogorgon? Rivals? Allies? Anything is possible based on the chaos of the abyss...and your story.
Of course, you appear to be setting up the barbarian and party for a battle. I'm curious story wise if they have to destroy her...or redeem/save her?
This may seem out of nowhere, but I think it's great that SocialFoxes always posts these weird inquisitive threads digging into established or hypothetical lore within the game. They are pretty much guaranteed to pique my interest and make me read them, which then gets my own creativity going.
This may seem out of nowhere, but I think it's great that SocialFoxes always posts these weird inquisitive threads digging into established or hypothetical lore within the game. They are pretty much guaranteed to pique my interest and make me read them, which then gets my own creativity going.
Agreed. When I'm supposed to be working, I've been envisioning a drawn out battle between an embodiment/avatar/possession of the Abyss and an embodiment/avatar/possession of the Prime Material Plane. A farm hand wakes up one day to discover that he has become a champion of the plane of existence itself, which is fighting for survival as the Abyss tries to absorb it into itself.
4e asserted that the Abyss had some sort of scattered will that can do things like spontaneously generate demons as powerful as tana'ari lords, empower evil spellcasters and corrupt even gods. I don't know that that changed but one of the defining features in this edition is that the Abyss is infectious, like a planar cancer. The reason leaving demons up to their own devices on any plane is so dangerous is because it can lead to more demons. The more demons there are the greater chance there is of an abyssal manifest zone being created. If one come into existence it is only a matter of time until the abyss warps and subsumes the area. This can spread across continents and even drag the entire planet into the abyss. This process is detailed in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes.
But as for avatars of the Abyss, those are the demon lords.
This may seem out of nowhere, but I think it's great that SocialFoxes always posts these weird inquisitive threads digging into established or hypothetical lore within the game. They are pretty much guaranteed to pique my interest and make me read them, which then gets my own creativity going.
Thanks so much for your kind words. I do enjoy digging into the lore and trying to incorporate my players backstories and stuff into my world's.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
This may seem out of nowhere, but I think it's great that SocialFoxes always posts these weird inquisitive threads digging into established or hypothetical lore within the game. They are pretty much guaranteed to pique my interest and make me read them, which then gets my own creativity going.
Thanks so much for your kind words. I do enjoy digging into the lore and trying to incorporate my players backstories and stuff into my world's.
+1 here. And I am very interested to know how the barbarian is going to handle it; remove his sister's head, or find a way to save her.
Hi everyone,
My players are just about to return to the monastery, that was the early childhood home of the barbarian character.
He was born into a generational order of monks. However, his home and his people were destroyed by demons, after the the seal, that kept an abyssal portal closed was broken.
The demons killed his people, destroyed his home and one of them found him and his twin playing hide-and-seek in the forest.
The demon killed his twin but before it could kill him, it was killed itself by a barbarian. That barbarian then raised the young monk as his own son, teaching him how to fight and turning him into a barbarian like the rest of his adopted tribe.
All these years, he has believed his twin sister was killed, but I want to do something cool with his backstory.
I want to say that his sister did not die.- at least not entirely.
Essentially, I want to say that when she was attacked by the demon, it left parts of itself embedded in the wound and that the abyss used those remnants of the demon, to turn her from a young girl, into a powerful demon princess.
Essentially, it turned her into an avatar of the abyss, and is using its new avatar to make make sure that the monastery can never be rebuilt and the portal never closed. Basically, it's using its creation to protect itself, and ensure that it can remain in this world.
So to close the portal, the party will have to fight through a horde of demons and then face off against the abysses avatar - the demon princess Lilitu.
The problem is, that I am not sure if the Abyss is able to act on its own like this. Whats the official stance on the abyss and is it possible to interpret it as being capable of creating an avatar, as I have described?
I'd like your opinions on the matter.
Thanks
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
I highly doubt there has been an "official" sort of stance on this kind of thing. That said, you've got a pretty solid trope that you are working around and I like the idea.
The abyss is pure chaotic evil. Rather than having a will of its own, several of its layers are shaped by the will of a demon lord that lives there.
You can of course change whatever you want for a custom setting, but for the forgotten realms: a slain demon returns to the abyss to reform, it is possible it could bring its prey there with it. Once in the abyss, a creature would have to struggle to resist the abyss's corrupting influence or eventually become a demon themself.
I don't see any reason why the plane itself couldn't be sentient, or semi-sentient. It just allows those demons to live there, and allows powerful ones to shape parts of it, because, why not, I'm an entirely plane of existence, what do I care? :)
It doesn't have to be an 'intelligence' that they could even talk to or anything. Something like a plane of existence, if it was at all sentient, would be so alien to us, there's no reason why you can't just make up anything and everything, and change it willy nilly when you want. It can have intentions, influence, etc. Why not?
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
The Abyss is chaotic evil in nature, inhabited by powerful Tanar'ri and Obyriths. As described in MtoF, incursions onto the prime material, can corrupt it. It doesn't need the Demon Lords to do this. They just make it faster/messier.
So, corruption is a thing. Its the nature of the plane. Digging into the lore, Orcus was a mortal once before becoming a lord. So your story of corruption is very reasonable. Of course every demon lord considers themselves an avatar of the Abyss, so she's in good company. Will/did she overthrow Demogorgon? Rivals? Allies? Anything is possible based on the chaos of the abyss...and your story.
Of course, you appear to be setting up the barbarian and party for a battle. I'm curious story wise if they have to destroy her...or redeem/save her?
This may seem out of nowhere, but I think it's great that SocialFoxes always posts these weird inquisitive threads digging into established or hypothetical lore within the game. They are pretty much guaranteed to pique my interest and make me read them, which then gets my own creativity going.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Agreed. When I'm supposed to be working, I've been envisioning a drawn out battle between an embodiment/avatar/possession of the Abyss and an embodiment/avatar/possession of the Prime Material Plane. A farm hand wakes up one day to discover that he has become a champion of the plane of existence itself, which is fighting for survival as the Abyss tries to absorb it into itself.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
4e asserted that the Abyss had some sort of scattered will that can do things like spontaneously generate demons as powerful as tana'ari lords, empower evil spellcasters and corrupt even gods. I don't know that that changed but one of the defining features in this edition is that the Abyss is infectious, like a planar cancer. The reason leaving demons up to their own devices on any plane is so dangerous is because it can lead to more demons. The more demons there are the greater chance there is of an abyssal manifest zone being created. If one come into existence it is only a matter of time until the abyss warps and subsumes the area. This can spread across continents and even drag the entire planet into the abyss. This process is detailed in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes.
But as for avatars of the Abyss, those are the demon lords.
Thanks so much for your kind words. I do enjoy digging into the lore and trying to incorporate my players backstories and stuff into my world's.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
+1 here. And I am very interested to know how the barbarian is going to handle it; remove his sister's head, or find a way to save her.
GLHF with the story/adventure.