Gradually converting "Savage Tide" over to 5E, and my players want to have a more "piratey" feel to it by adding some simple gunpowder weapons (pistols and swivel cannons, basically). Looking at the rules for firearms, I keep seeing references to a "Misfire score" which each weapon has, and rolling lower than it causes various problems - the problem I have is that I cannot for the life of me find the misfire score anywhere! I've searched the DMG, both paper and DDB versions, and I again I can find references to it, but I can't find an actual value listed under various firearms statistics.
Some of it's just a problem that dndbeyond has with displaying information, they have the same problem with the Reload Property.
The other problem is all of the weapons with the Misfire property are part of Critical Role's Gunslinger Subclass for Fighter, and thus not official content. You can find them in that subclass's section in the Fighter class's "Game Rules" page. If you want to keep it to official content only then you only have Pistol and Musket weapons.
Some of it's just a problem that dndbeyond has with displaying information, they have the same problem with the Reload Property.
I mean, in this case it's entirely down to the fact that misfire is a CR gunslinger rule that has nothing to do with core D&D. As such the misfire attribute would not be linked as it's not a core rule. All other official rules are linked for firearms.
Ah, that makes sense. I thought the Gunslinger archetype used the misfire rule which had come from the core rules - that's where my error lay! :) Thanks, folks. I'll hunt around - I'm sure Mercer's rules will be out there somewhere...
One of my players almost got a gun while in a pirates village. The way I was going to plan it out was to have player roll attack. Then with damage roll also roll a d10. On that d10 was the misfire. A 1 would be a critical failure blowing up the weapon. A 2 was a jam requiring an action to clear. A 3 was a simple misfire on the ammo. Bonus actions used to reload.
Figured it would be fair enough and not over complicated.
One of my players almost got a gun while in a pirates village. The way I was going to plan it out was to have player roll attack. Then with damage roll also roll a d10. On that d10 was the misfire. A 1 would be a critical failure blowing up the weapon. A 2 was a jam requiring an action to clear. A 3 was a simple misfire on the ammo. Bonus actions used to reload.
Figured it would be fair enough and not over complicated.
So in addition to the normal miss chance, the weapon was going to have a 30% chance to ignore the hit die including a 10% for the weapon to selfdestruct? Was it going to do 3d6 damage or was it completely not worth it?
3d6 base damage. Plus it could fire ammo with magical properties. Poison, acid, paralyze, ice, fire, explosive, blind etc.. Was also able to fire a grappling hook for their endless rope, snaring net. Lots of silly stuff to make it fun in certain situations.
Might as well just use a bow though. More reliable and same stuff.
Edit, could instead of a misfire roll just add it to the hit roll. Just about anything could be worked out in a made up world.
I'm thinking with mine I might extend the reload times to be a little more realistic. It's my daughter that has the hankering to play a gunslinger, and she's more than happy to play the classic trope of two pistols fired off at the start of the fight, and then switch to her rapier for the rest (though she did make a half-joking comment about getting a "Coat of Many Pockets" with about twenty loaded pistols in it. I'm fairly certain she was kidding...*grin* )
The sources I've found suggest it takes about 15 - 20 seconds to load and fire a flintlock pistol, so I'm thinking it would fire, and then take three rounds to reload, during which time the gunslinger could only take bonus actions. Maybe have the "Firearms Specialist" feat drop that to two rounds. Either way, from a practical perspective, it would be more sensible to fire off your guns and then draw a melee weapon.
I don't understand the need to add extra disadvantages to weapons that are already sub par to begin with.
A Pistol does 1d10 damage with a range of 30/90 with the Ammunition(firearms) property. A heavy crossbow does the same damage with a much better range and is more cost effective since the ammunition can be reused. A Musket is not much better than the pistol and is still lacking the range of a Heavy Crossbow. Add in the loading property and a pistol or musket are pretty much garbage, because at least the Crossbow Expert Feat lets you bypass the Loading issue. Are you allowing modern or futuristic firearms? Is that the issue?
No, just black-powder, flintlock pistols. But for both myself and the player, it has nothing to do with the mechanics, it's about the pirate-y flavour. :)
Because, as I said earlier, it is 1) more realistic, and 2) it jives with the "Pirates of the Caribbean" feel that we're going for. They person playing the character wants this, remember. I just happen to agree with her. We're an extremely Narrativist group, and more than happy to nerf ourselves mechanically if it adds to the feel of the story.
The misfire rating for a firearm is an extra d20 roll. The DC is 8 + the misfire score.
For example say someone picks up a blunderbuss. They are not proficient with it so this is another +1 to the misfire score. Blunderbuss has a misfire score of +2. So the DC is now 8+1+2 = 11. If the player rolls below an 11 the blunderbuss now misfires. They have failed the check.
The definition of a misfire is complete failure of a cartridge to fire when the trigger is pulled and the hammer or firing pin falls. The person firing does not have any damage sustained.
This is all listed in the Gunslinger fighter class.
The misfire rating for a firearm is an extra d20 roll. The DC is 8 + the misfire score.
For example say someone picks up a blunderbuss. They are not proficient with it so this is another +1 to the misfire score. Blunderbuss has a misfire score of +2. So the DC is now 8+1+2 = 11. If the player rolls below an 11 the blunderbuss now misfires. They have failed the check.
The definition of a misfire is complete failure of a cartridge to fire when the trigger is pulled and the hammer or firing pin falls. The person firing does not have any damage sustained.
This is all listed in the Gunslinger fighter class.
Hopefully this was not a repeat of information
That isn't right. 8+misfire is the repair DC. It is only a misfire if the die roll is the misfire value or less. In your example, a rolling a 3 (before modifiers) is a misfire, and it takes an 11 tinker check to repair it or it is broken.
Gradually converting "Savage Tide" over to 5E, and my players want to have a more "piratey" feel to it by adding some simple gunpowder weapons (pistols and swivel cannons, basically). Looking at the rules for firearms, I keep seeing references to a "Misfire score" which each weapon has, and rolling lower than it causes various problems - the problem I have is that I cannot for the life of me find the misfire score anywhere! I've searched the DMG, both paper and DDB versions, and I again I can find references to it, but I can't find an actual value listed under various firearms statistics.
Am I missing something really obvious here?
Some of it's just a problem that dndbeyond has with displaying information, they have the same problem with the Reload Property.
The other problem is all of the weapons with the Misfire property are part of Critical Role's Gunslinger Subclass for Fighter, and thus not official content. You can find them in that subclass's section in the Fighter class's "Game Rules" page. If you want to keep it to official content only then you only have Pistol and Musket weapons.
I mean, in this case it's entirely down to the fact that misfire is a CR gunslinger rule that has nothing to do with core D&D. As such the misfire attribute would not be linked as it's not a core rule. All other official rules are linked for firearms.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Yeah, the misfire mechanic was created by Matt Mercer for the gunslinger subclass's firearms. It is essentially homebrew.
Ah, that makes sense. I thought the Gunslinger archetype used the misfire rule which had come from the core rules - that's where my error lay! :)
Thanks, folks. I'll hunt around - I'm sure Mercer's rules will be out there somewhere...
The gunslinger subclass has a list of the firearms that go with it. Those weapons have been added to DDB too.
In the item list some of the firearms have (Exandria) next to them and those ones have the misfire score on them.
One of my players almost got a gun while in a pirates village. The way I was going to plan it out was to have player roll attack. Then with damage roll also roll a d10. On that d10 was the misfire. A 1 would be a critical failure blowing up the weapon. A 2 was a jam requiring an action to clear. A 3 was a simple misfire on the ammo. Bonus actions used to reload.
Figured it would be fair enough and not over complicated.
So in addition to the normal miss chance, the weapon was going to have a 30% chance to ignore the hit die including a 10% for the weapon to selfdestruct? Was it going to do 3d6 damage or was it completely not worth it?
3d6 base damage. Plus it could fire ammo with magical properties. Poison, acid, paralyze, ice, fire, explosive, blind etc.. Was also able to fire a grappling hook for their endless rope, snaring net. Lots of silly stuff to make it fun in certain situations.
Might as well just use a bow though. More reliable and same stuff.
Edit, could instead of a misfire roll just add it to the hit roll. Just about anything could be worked out in a made up world.
I'm thinking with mine I might extend the reload times to be a little more realistic. It's my daughter that has the hankering to play a gunslinger, and she's more than happy to play the classic trope of two pistols fired off at the start of the fight, and then switch to her rapier for the rest (though she did make a half-joking comment about getting a "Coat of Many Pockets" with about twenty loaded pistols in it. I'm fairly certain she was kidding...*grin* )
The sources I've found suggest it takes about 15 - 20 seconds to load and fire a flintlock pistol, so I'm thinking it would fire, and then take three rounds to reload, during which time the gunslinger could only take bonus actions. Maybe have the "Firearms Specialist" feat drop that to two rounds. Either way, from a practical perspective, it would be more sensible to fire off your guns and then draw a melee weapon.
I don't understand the need to add extra disadvantages to weapons that are already sub par to begin with.
A Pistol does 1d10 damage with a range of 30/90 with the Ammunition(firearms) property. A heavy crossbow does the same damage with a much better range and is more cost effective since the ammunition can be reused. A Musket is not much better than the pistol and is still lacking the range of a Heavy Crossbow. Add in the loading property and a pistol or musket are pretty much garbage, because at least the Crossbow Expert Feat lets you bypass the Loading issue. Are you allowing modern or futuristic firearms? Is that the issue?
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
No, just black-powder, flintlock pistols. But for both myself and the player, it has nothing to do with the mechanics, it's about the pirate-y flavour. :)
Then why homebrew in more disadvantages?
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Because, as I said earlier, it is 1) more realistic, and 2) it jives with the "Pirates of the Caribbean" feel that we're going for.
They person playing the character wants this, remember. I just happen to agree with her. We're an extremely Narrativist group, and more than happy to nerf ourselves mechanically if it adds to the feel of the story.
The misfire rating for a firearm is an extra d20 roll. The DC is 8 + the misfire score.
For example say someone picks up a blunderbuss. They are not proficient with it so this is another +1 to the misfire score. Blunderbuss has a misfire score of +2. So the DC is now 8+1+2 = 11. If the player rolls below an 11 the blunderbuss now misfires. They have failed the check.
The definition of a misfire is complete failure of a cartridge to fire when the trigger is pulled and the hammer or firing pin falls. The person firing does not have any damage sustained.
This is all listed in the Gunslinger fighter class.
Hopefully this was not a repeat of information
That isn't right. 8+misfire is the repair DC. It is only a misfire if the die roll is the misfire value or less. In your example, a rolling a 3 (before modifiers) is a misfire, and it takes an 11 tinker check to repair it or it is broken.
The misfire scores are on the Fighter class page, under the Gunslinger subslass: https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/fighter#Gunslinger. There's a table listing the misfire numbers.