Hello, I really want to play a dragon knight character, because the concept of it sounds like just a hell of a lot of fun and so I found one on the Dandwiki page, but it was clear that it had some fairly large issues with balance. so, I copied it all over to a pages document and spent the last little bit editing it and nerfing almost everything about it, from the number of attacks you and your dragon can make, to the attacks themselves. I tried to make it such that (with average die rolls) that the dragon knight class would do a similar total damager per round to a fighter or other front line units. So, I was just curious if you guys could give me some constructive feedback on my work. Please do not insult me or anything like that, simply tell me if you think I balanced it well, If it is still over powered, or if I nerfed it too much (that one's unlikely, but idk) and, if you will be truly constructive and helpful, feel free to leave feedback about any other changes you would make to it. Thanks so much in advance!
I think this belongs in the Homebrew section of the DDB forum.
My main view on this is that having a full blown dragon as a companion from Tier 1 of play is pretty overpowering. The dragon also grows waaaay too fast. I know why you wrote it that way, but A) dragons grow slowly, which is tied in to their long lifespans relative to most humanoids and B) this just re-emphasizes how very overpowered this class would be.
Hey, thanks so much for taking the time to reply, I get that it gets a little shaky with the lore and stuff, but what I am worried about right now is simply if you think that it is balanced just from a mechanical standpoint, like lore and such aside, is it just simply too powerful as far as abilities go. (note. the game I will likely be playing it in will have some slightly modified lore and such.)
When I say "overpowered" I mean precisely that it would feel way too powerful next to other PCs of the same level or even a level or two above the Dragon Knight. Unless you are the DM, this kind of OP-ness would not fly at the table b/c other players, at the very least, would become unhappy with how you unbalance things for them.
When I say "overpowered" I mean precisely that it would feel way too powerful next to other PCs of the same level or even a level or two above the Dragon Knight. Unless you are the DM, this kind of OP-ness would not fly at the table b/c other players, at the very least, would become unhappy with how you unbalance things for them.
Thanks blues, that was exactly what I was looking for, in what area(s) is it too powerful in your opinion, the attack power of it? or what?
I'm confused about what roll the actual dragon knight offers.
It's a d6 hit dice like a wizard but can wear heavy armor like a fighter or paladin. It seems odd.
It also never really gets any stronger. The dragon gets hella strong, probably way too strong, while the Dragon Knight would probably just end up hiding at higher levels.
Giving the dragon an ASI as a minor trait is a little weird. It's drastically better than everything else, except maybe flight. I'd also give the dragon flight at a certain level. Maybe 7? That's when normal characters start gaining that ability or spell. Flight just seems too iconic for a dragon to have to make it a choice.
Some of your dragon traits need level requirements. Special breath for example. Giving your dragon an area of effect paralyzing attack at level 3 is way too strong. Maybe level 5 or 7. Probably more like 10.
There are different ages of dragons in the DMG. It might be easier to pick one of their stat blocks and just shape it to fit the type of dragon a little better. For example, a brass dragon wyrmling could be your level 1 dragon. A young brass dragon could be your level 7 dragon. The major issue here is that the different dragons have different CRs at the same age. That's why if you did this you should homogenize the stats. This might mean some of the other features have to be adjusted. It also means that the character early on would play a larger roll protecting the dragon and later the dragon protecting the character.
If the dragon dies, the player character should probably die too. And Vice versa. Make real consequence to that happening.
Giving immunity to the character is probably too much for level 15 but it's probably ok.
Simbiosis is a little clunky. I like the bonus action attack. That's when players tend to get a second attack and that works pretty well. The part I don't like is that you can use your reaction to make an attack that doesn't do damage but gives disadvantage on the attack against... Just do one or the other. Maybe even give the player a choice. The player can choose to use their reaction to give disadvantage to the attack or make an attack. The immune to conditions from the attack is too strong. Also, it is spell symbiosis :).
Dragon Fury is also a little clunky. I'd also have to look at the damage numbers to make sure that is an actual increase in damage. It initially doesn't look like it would be. Your dragon attacks and you attack or you attack 3 times but do more damage. It's weird.
Dragon Slayer -
Power of the blood. You already gain hit points equal to the constitution modifier. So you get that bonus twice? That's way too strong. That would give you more HP than a barbarian except at level 20 when you basically tie. Maybe instead of this give the dragon knight a d8 hit dice and heavy armor. Give normal DKs medium armor but not heavy.
Legendary Interference needs to be completely removed and forgotten about. That's just way too overpowered.
Dragonbound -
Strike of anti-magic is also clunky. It requires a weapon attack and a saving throw? If either one fails this action is wasted and I'm pretty sure there isn't anything else in the game like this. How about you just get rid of one or the other and make it usable once per short rest? I'd also just have concentration checks automatically fail to offset that it's only usable once per short rest. I also don't get out this fits with the lore of the subclass. I'd rethink this one.
Shared lifeforce. I think you should either have both take half or one take all but you get to pick. As is it is going to slow the game down.
Slayers fuel is also clunky because trying to figure out what 1/4 of your life and what 1/4 of the dragons life is will be annoying. Maybe just let the character decide to use it once per long rest. Just generally simplify the rules on this.
Dark Arisen -
Art of war swift strike gives extra attack at level 3. Make it level 5 and just call it extra attack. It's too clunky as is. The rest of the options could probably be reworked with the understanding you're giving the DK extra attack.
Dragon Magic is a cool concept but I think in general is too much
Very cool concept and flavor, but overall I think everything is overtuned and too complicated. Think of it like this, you're basically a much much much better version of a Beastmaster hunter. I also read the whole thing and can't for the life of me figure out what roll the Dragon Knight actually plays in combat. For the most part it seems like it attacks once with small hit dice and then just let's the dragon actually do everything else, especially late game. I would in general buff the Dragon Knight itself and nerf the dragon. Maybe have it top out at a young dragon (with a little bit of added stuff based on the Dragon Knights level. That would also fix the lore issue of having the dragon grow up too fast. Maybe start out as a Wyrmling and slowly progress until you end up with a young dragon.
Thank you so much for your feedback kendis. I appreciate all of it and I think that after reading what you wrote, I agree with almost all of it, I think the best way to do it is to remove the dragon lords thing all together, and just take most of the effects from the dragon bound class and throw them at the players at various levels. I will also work it out a bit more so that like you said, the dragon knight plays more of a roll in the first 6-7 levels before the dragon can really take over. I think my problem was trying too much to keep it like it was on the page where I found it and balance that vs just making my own thing how I think it should truly be, so I am going to work on that for a bit and then I will send a (heavily) revised version to you if you would be willing to give me some feedback on a second draft.
Additionally, I could just take the night down, to be more of just like a dragon "handler" rather than a knight, take away the armour and such and just make the entire thing truly revolve around the dragon.
Hello, I really want to play a dragon knight character, because the concept of it sounds like just a hell of a lot of fun and so I found one on the Dandwiki page, but it was clear that it had some fairly large issues with balance. so, I copied it all over to a pages document and spent the last little bit editing it and nerfing almost everything about it, from the number of attacks you and your dragon can make, to the attacks themselves. I tried to make it such that (with average die rolls) that the dragon knight class would do a similar total damager per round to a fighter or other front line units. So, I was just curious if you guys could give me some constructive feedback on my work. Please do not insult me or anything like that, simply tell me if you think I balanced it well, If it is still over powered, or if I nerfed it too much (that one's unlikely, but idk) and, if you will be truly constructive and helpful, feel free to leave feedback about any other changes you would make to it. Thanks so much in advance!
Link to it:
https://docdro.id/euLwxHh
I think this belongs in the Homebrew section of the DDB forum.
My main view on this is that having a full blown dragon as a companion from Tier 1 of play is pretty overpowering. The dragon also grows waaaay too fast. I know why you wrote it that way, but A) dragons grow slowly, which is tied in to their long lifespans relative to most humanoids and B) this just re-emphasizes how very overpowered this class would be.
Hey, thanks so much for taking the time to reply, I get that it gets a little shaky with the lore and stuff, but what I am worried about right now is simply if you think that it is balanced just from a mechanical standpoint, like lore and such aside, is it just simply too powerful as far as abilities go. (note. the game I will likely be playing it in will have some slightly modified lore and such.)
When I say "overpowered" I mean precisely that it would feel way too powerful next to other PCs of the same level or even a level or two above the Dragon Knight. Unless you are the DM, this kind of OP-ness would not fly at the table b/c other players, at the very least, would become unhappy with how you unbalance things for them.
Thanks blues, that was exactly what I was looking for, in what area(s) is it too powerful in your opinion, the attack power of it? or what?
Thanks for the continued feedback
My thoughts in no particular order:
Very cool concept and flavor, but overall I think everything is overtuned and too complicated. Think of it like this, you're basically a much much much better version of a Beastmaster hunter. I also read the whole thing and can't for the life of me figure out what roll the Dragon Knight actually plays in combat. For the most part it seems like it attacks once with small hit dice and then just let's the dragon actually do everything else, especially late game. I would in general buff the Dragon Knight itself and nerf the dragon. Maybe have it top out at a young dragon (with a little bit of added stuff based on the Dragon Knights level. That would also fix the lore issue of having the dragon grow up too fast. Maybe start out as a Wyrmling and slowly progress until you end up with a young dragon.
Thank you so much for your feedback kendis. I appreciate all of it and I think that after reading what you wrote, I agree with almost all of it, I think the best way to do it is to remove the dragon lords thing all together, and just take most of the effects from the dragon bound class and throw them at the players at various levels. I will also work it out a bit more so that like you said, the dragon knight plays more of a roll in the first 6-7 levels before the dragon can really take over. I think my problem was trying too much to keep it like it was on the page where I found it and balance that vs just making my own thing how I think it should truly be, so I am going to work on that for a bit and then I will send a (heavily) revised version to you if you would be willing to give me some feedback on a second draft.
Additionally, I could just take the night down, to be more of just like a dragon "handler" rather than a knight, take away the armour and such and just make the entire thing truly revolve around the dragon.
Yeah sure, I love doing this kind of stuff so I would be happy to check it out.
Thanks so much! I love it so much when I can find people that actually are interested and want to help.
Idk If you saw kdendis, but I sent you my an updated one as a private message :)