If you are doing a spear and shield build with the PAM feat, the +2 from the dueling fighting style should apply to the bonus action attack correct? Asking because on the dndbeyond character sheet it doesn’t add that modifier and now I’m second guessing myself.
I'm reasonably confident that polearm mastery is only supposed to work for a weapon held in two hands (every weapon it applies to is either two-handed or versatile), and the alternate end attack is done with the other hand. It's basically the equivalent of a double weapon in 3e, and even with that reading it's hilariously overpowered.
No where in the wording of the feat does it specify that the weapon must be held in two hands to get the bonus action attack. Full agreement that the feat is strong as hell, but I’d say the case of using it one handed with a shield is far less problematic than combining it with GWM.
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You can keep your enemies at bay with reach weapons. You gain the following benefits:
When you take the Attack action and attack with only a glaive, halberd, quarterstaff, or spear, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon. This attack uses the same ability modifier as the primary attack. The weapon’s damage die for this attack is a d4, and it deals bludgeoning damage.
While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, quarterstaff, or spear, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach.
Oh, I agree that the wording doesn't limit it to two handed weapons, but I suspect that's an error.
If it were an error it would would have been addressed in errata when spear was added. DM's can change it in their games if they want but per the rules the staff and shield or spear and shield clearly allows the bonus action with those weapons one handed.
I picture it as a one handed spin trick, follow through side swipe after a lunge, or a half step footwork move allowing a stabbing thrust followed by a similar stabbing butt end thrust. If those weapons can be used effectively one handed there is no reason to think the feat would be any more limited.
Bonuses apply in any case.
It's barely different from taking dual weilder instead. That allows for a spear in each hand, and also still gives an AC bonus and a bonus action spear attack although there are better weapons for dual weilder.
Dual wielder with feat at level 6, two weapon fighting style: +1 ac, damage 3d8+3stat (13.5 +3stat), needs two magic weapons
Duelist with feat at level 6, spear and shield: +2 ac, damage 2d6+1d4+6+3stat(15.5 +3stat), needs one magic weapon, can use magic shield, can stab people as a reaction
Yeah...totally equal. Honestly, polearm mastery would be a good feat if you deleted the bonus action attack, just the reaction effect would be adequate to be worth a feat.
Dual wielder with feat at level 6, two weapon fighting style: +1 ac, damage 3d8+3stat (13.5 +3stat), needs two magic weapons
Duelist with feat at level 6, spear and shield: +2 ac, damage 2d6+1d4+6+3stat(15.5 +3stat), needs one magic weapon, can use magic shield, can stab people as a reaction
Yeah...totally equal. Honestly, polearm mastery would be a good feat if you deleted the bonus action attack, just the reaction effect would be adequate to be worth a feat.
That math is because duelist is better than twf as a fighting style, not because of a big feat gap. 13.5+2*(stat) vs 9.5+3*(stat) is a lot more similar. Crits also favor the higher die.
PAM is a bit better, but conceptually the feats end up similar.
As for magic weapons, spears or staves that don't attune to spell casters seem more limited than blades.
Dual wielder with feat at level 6, two weapon fighting style: +1 ac, damage 3d8+3stat (13.5 +3stat), needs two magic weapons
Duelist with feat at level 6, spear and shield: +2 ac, damage 2d6+1d4+6+3stat(15.5 +3stat), needs one magic weapon, can use magic shield, can stab people as a reaction
Yeah...totally equal. Honestly, polearm mastery would be a good feat if you deleted the bonus action attack, just the reaction effect would be adequate to be worth a feat.
The OA on entering your reach is good, but not enough to be a whole feat imho. If it came with a +1 str/dex I that might be viable I guess, but I don’t see the feat as such a huge problem that it needs to be homebrewed. Might be because I’m biased towards polearms in general and I’m glad that this particular fighting style is well supported in game (polearms have been the most prevalent class of melee battlefield weapon through most of human history because they have a lot of advantages because of reach/leverage).
Anyway, the main reason I think it wasn't intended to work for one-handed weapons is because a lot of 5e feats are just combinations of things you could do in 3e, which in this case is a combination of the various opportunity attacks reach allowed plus there were feats that let you use a polearm as a dual weapon, and dual weapons were always two handed. That said, it's not like I have any particular authority, I'm neither your DM nor a game dev.
The rules as written would apply the dueling damage bonus to the PAM BA attack if the weapon is being wielded with only one hand (whether or not this is intended or makes sense, it is the rule). DDB tries to support the RAW as much as possible.
This is caused by a technical limitation. The bonus action is created by the feat, not the weapon. The fighting style only buffs weapon attacks. There are tons of other features that also don't interact with PAM properly because of this limitation (+X magic weapon is another example).
The rules as written would apply the dueling damage bonus to the PAM BA attack if the weapon is being wielded with only one hand (whether or not this is intended or makes sense, it is the rule). DDB tries to support the RAW as much as possible.
This is caused by a technical limitation. The bonus action is created by the feat, not the weapon. The fighting style only buffs weapon attacks. There are tons of other features that also don't interact with PAM properly because of this limitation (+X magic weapon is another example).
Oh yeah I see now, the bonus action shows up even when you have nothing equipped. Didn’t think to try magic weapons. Thanks for your response.
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If you are doing a spear and shield build with the PAM feat, the +2 from the dueling fighting style should apply to the bonus action attack correct? Asking because on the dndbeyond character sheet it doesn’t add that modifier and now I’m second guessing myself.
I'm reasonably confident that polearm mastery is only supposed to work for a weapon held in two hands (every weapon it applies to is either two-handed or versatile), and the alternate end attack is done with the other hand. It's basically the equivalent of a double weapon in 3e, and even with that reading it's hilariously overpowered.
No where in the wording of the feat does it specify that the weapon must be held in two hands to get the bonus action attack. Full agreement that the feat is strong as hell, but I’d say the case of using it one handed with a shield is far less problematic than combining it with GWM.
—————————————————————————————————
You can keep your enemies at bay with reach weapons. You gain the following benefits:
Oh, I agree that the wording doesn't limit it to two handed weapons, but I suspect that's an error.
If it were an error it would would have been addressed in errata when spear was added. DM's can change it in their games if they want but per the rules the staff and shield or spear and shield clearly allows the bonus action with those weapons one handed.
I picture it as a one handed spin trick, follow through side swipe after a lunge, or a half step footwork move allowing a stabbing thrust followed by a similar stabbing butt end thrust. If those weapons can be used effectively one handed there is no reason to think the feat would be any more limited.
Bonuses apply in any case.
It's barely different from taking dual weilder instead. That allows for a spear in each hand, and also still gives an AC bonus and a bonus action spear attack although there are better weapons for dual weilder.
Yeah...totally equal. Honestly, polearm mastery would be a good feat if you deleted the bonus action attack, just the reaction effect would be adequate to be worth a feat.
That math is because duelist is better than twf as a fighting style, not because of a big feat gap. 13.5+2*(stat) vs 9.5+3*(stat) is a lot more similar. Crits also favor the higher die.
PAM is a bit better, but conceptually the feats end up similar.
As for magic weapons, spears or staves that don't attune to spell casters seem more limited than blades.
The OA on entering your reach is good, but not enough to be a whole feat imho. If it came with a +1 str/dex I that might be viable I guess, but I don’t see the feat as such a huge problem that it needs to be homebrewed. Might be because I’m biased towards polearms in general and I’m glad that this particular fighting style is well supported in game (polearms have been the most prevalent class of melee battlefield weapon through most of human history because they have a lot of advantages because of reach/leverage).
Anyway, the main reason I think it wasn't intended to work for one-handed weapons is because a lot of 5e feats are just combinations of things you could do in 3e, which in this case is a combination of the various opportunity attacks reach allowed plus there were feats that let you use a polearm as a dual weapon, and dual weapons were always two handed. That said, it's not like I have any particular authority, I'm neither your DM nor a game dev.
The rules as written would apply the dueling damage bonus to the PAM BA attack if the weapon is being wielded with only one hand (whether or not this is intended or makes sense, it is the rule). DDB tries to support the RAW as much as possible.
This is caused by a technical limitation. The bonus action is created by the feat, not the weapon. The fighting style only buffs weapon attacks. There are tons of other features that also don't interact with PAM properly because of this limitation (+X magic weapon is another example).
Oh yeah I see now, the bonus action shows up even when you have nothing equipped. Didn’t think to try magic weapons. Thanks for your response.