FWIW, after wrapping up my current 5e campaign later this year, I'm going to pitch PF2e to my group by trying out either the Kingmaker anniversary edition or a conversion of Rise of the Runelords from PF1e. My main problems with 5e are that I'm tired of the encounter system not working (CR is a convoluted joke), high level play is not viable, the economy/crafting rules are whack, and personally I find 5e lore to be bland and boring. Maybe this is stuff they'll fix for D&D 2024, but right now I'm over it.
I'm going through the PF2e Beginner Box + Troubles in Otari by myself to feel things out and there's a lot to like including encounter rules that make sense and that are easy to use. Having a crafting system in place with the value of items clearly identified is also a big blessing over 5e for me. I am exhausted from trying out third party solutions to try and fix 5e's game economy only to confuse my players and to give myself a headache. 5e looks simple from the outside until you realize that there's things that WotC expect you to design yourself or spend more money on third party products. I much prefer having a structure to start with and modify rather than having to make things up myself from scratch -- I'm not a game designer! As far as running the game, PF2e seems like it will be easier for me.
I also love the world of Golarion more than the Forgotten Realms and find the lore books that Paizo puts out to be fun to read while sparking ideas and teaching me about the world. Will 5e ever get a book as cool as the Mwangi Expanse or Absalom, the City of Lost Omens? So far signs point to "no". All the cool lore books for D&D are from past editions and are out of print. Print on demand editions and PDFs from DMs Guild have wildly differing quality, so that's not a great source for old books.
The quality of PF2e tools for Foundry VTT and the Archives of Nethys also help with making the switch.
Right now my biggest pet peeve with PF2e is formatting and rules related. Paizo could do a better job of calling out rules elements and having page reference numbers. Having an online solution like Pathfinder Nexus with tooltips and whatnot will help, but if you're looking at the physical book or PDF, Paizo hasn't exactly organized things in the most intuitive fashion.
RPGs are made my humans and humans are imperfect. I have no intention on fighting for "sides". D&D and Pathfinder both have their strengths and weaknesses. If you can find the system that makes sense for you and your table, all the more power to you.
I totally aggrege with this, hell I have been hearing rumor's of people at some tables combining both rules that work for them and just have a mish mash of 5E and PF2e combined. Sure its allot of work, but if you work with your players and other people you know on it I am sure you will get something amazing. My only point I was bringing up instead of playing one or the other why not just combine both use 5E or PF2e as a base like a skeleton and then edit and expand and change their. I as a new DM I realize that yes the CR system is absolutely shit and needs allot of work but as you said is their any signs of them fixing that, unfortunately no. The FR lore is scattered all over like a bad jigsaw puzzle within a jigsaw puzzle.
TLDR: Find a way of using both systems because **** it why not, or use one as a base and then go from there. If you prefer PF2e better then use that, if you prefer 5E more because of its user friendly-ness then use that both are great systems and have good content in them. PF2e has better lore than 5E though because its not scattered to the nine hells.
TTLDR: Have you and your friends do what you want and have fun is the sum up.
I have only actually played 5e and only know Pathfinder from playing the Kingmaker & Wrath of the Righteous video games, but if the gameplay is anything close to how Pathfinder plays IRL then I really prefer 5e. It's easier to understand (imo) and much less restrictive.
Examples:
From what I've seen Pathfinder has soo many penalties, like choose any sub class and you will most likely loose several of your core class skills, so it feels like you have to stick to the base class to not miss out on stuff. :(
Same if you choose any other Heritage then the base one for your race, you get penalties :(
I love the stories of both those games, but for actual playing I rather stick to 5e.
I have only actually played 5e and only know Pathfinder from playing the Kingmaker & Wrath of the Righteous video games, but if the gameplay is anything close to how Pathfinder plays IRL then I really prefer 5e. It's easier to understand (imo) and much less restrictive.
Examples:
From what I've seen Pathfinder has soo many penalties, like choose any sub class and you will most likely loose several of your core class skills, so it feels like you have to stick to the base class to not miss out on stuff. :(
Same if you choose any other Heritage then the base one for your race, you get penalties :(
I love the stories of both those games, but for actual playing I rather stick to 5e.
I get that. I would be very intimidated trying to run a tabletop game of D&D 3e or PF1e,but PF2e is not 3e/PF1e. Still, it's fair to say that PF2e is a bit more complex than 5e. I looked into rules systems that are even lighter like Fate and Cypher System, but for my tastes Paizo offers the most alluring alternative to D&D and the crunch hasn't been overwhelming. I'm sure with enough time I'll find more pet peeves with the system, but at the moment a working encounter system is just too enticing.
From what I've seen Pathfinder has soo many penalties, like choose any sub class and you will most likely loose several of your core class skills, so it feels like you have to stick to the base class to not miss out on stuff. :(
Same if you choose any other Heritage then the base one for your race, you get penalties :(
Archetypes are trade-offs: you give up some stuff and you gain some other stuff instead. So sure, you miss out on stuff; that's because you take something with other stuff. It's fundamentally not different than picking one class to get its abilities, and missing out on the abilities of the other classes. It's the same with choosing alternate racial traits: if you choose one, you don't get the other. D&D 5E has subraces and subclasses too, and picking one means missing out on the others. If you become a Ghostwise Halfling Phantom Rogue in 5E, you miss out on the Lightfoot Halfling's Charisma increase and being Naturally Stealthy as well as on the Scout Rogue's abilities. You can't have it all. Same in both systems, only Pathfinder has a lot more options to choose from and it's a bit more complex because you get to mix and match parts of races and classes rather than having to pick one without getting to modify it.
It's ok to have a preference, absolutely, but actually understanding a system before deciding should help. ;)
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
FWIW, after wrapping up my current 5e campaign later this year, I'm going to pitch PF2e to my group by trying out either the Kingmaker anniversary edition or a conversion of Rise of the Runelords from PF1e. My main problems with 5e are that I'm tired of the encounter system not working (CR is a convoluted joke), high level play is not viable, the economy/crafting rules are whack, and personally I find 5e lore to be bland and boring. Maybe this is stuff they'll fix for D&D 2024, but right now I'm over it.
I'm going through the PF2e Beginner Box + Troubles in Otari by myself to feel things out and there's a lot to like including encounter rules that make sense and that are easy to use. Having a crafting system in place with the value of items clearly identified is also a big blessing over 5e for me. I am exhausted from trying out third party solutions to try and fix 5e's game economy only to confuse my players and to give myself a headache. 5e looks simple from the outside until you realize that there's things that WotC expect you to design yourself or spend more money on third party products. I much prefer having a structure to start with and modify rather than having to make things up myself from scratch -- I'm not a game designer! As far as running the game, PF2e seems like it will be easier for me.
I also love the world of Golarion more than the Forgotten Realms and find the lore books that Paizo puts out to be fun to read while sparking ideas and teaching me about the world. Will 5e ever get a book as cool as the Mwangi Expanse or Absalom, the City of Lost Omens? So far signs point to "no". All the cool lore books for D&D are from past editions and are out of print. Print on demand editions and PDFs from DMs Guild have wildly differing quality, so that's not a great source for old books.
The quality of PF2e tools for Foundry VTT and the Archives of Nethys also help with making the switch.
Right now my biggest pet peeve with PF2e is formatting and rules related. Paizo could do a better job of calling out rules elements and having page reference numbers. Having an online solution like Pathfinder Nexus with tooltips and whatnot will help, but if you're looking at the physical book or PDF, Paizo hasn't exactly organized things in the most intuitive fashion.
RPGs are made my humans and humans are imperfect. I have no intention on fighting for "sides". D&D and Pathfinder both have their strengths and weaknesses. If you can find the system that makes sense for you and your table, all the more power to you.
I totally aggrege with this, hell I have been hearing rumor's of people at some tables combining both rules that work for them and just have a mish mash of 5E and PF2e combined. Sure its allot of work, but if you work with your players and other people you know on it I am sure you will get something amazing. My only point I was bringing up instead of playing one or the other why not just combine both use 5E or PF2e as a base like a skeleton and then edit and expand and change their. I as a new DM I realize that yes the CR system is absolutely shit and needs allot of work but as you said is their any signs of them fixing that, unfortunately no. The FR lore is scattered all over like a bad jigsaw puzzle within a jigsaw puzzle.
TLDR: Find a way of using both systems because **** it why not, or use one as a base and then go from there. If you prefer PF2e better then use that, if you prefer 5E more because of its user friendly-ness then use that both are great systems and have good content in them. PF2e has better lore than 5E though because its not scattered to the nine hells.
TTLDR: Have you and your friends do what you want and have fun is the sum up.
I have only actually played 5e and only know Pathfinder from playing the Kingmaker & Wrath of the Righteous video games, but if the gameplay is anything close to how Pathfinder plays IRL then I really prefer 5e. It's easier to understand (imo) and much less restrictive.
Examples:
I love the stories of both those games, but for actual playing I rather stick to 5e.
I get that. I would be very intimidated trying to run a tabletop game of D&D 3e or PF1e, but PF2e is not 3e/PF1e. Still, it's fair to say that PF2e is a bit more complex than 5e. I looked into rules systems that are even lighter like Fate and Cypher System, but for my tastes Paizo offers the most alluring alternative to D&D and the crunch hasn't been overwhelming. I'm sure with enough time I'll find more pet peeves with the system, but at the moment a working encounter system is just too enticing.
Archetypes are trade-offs: you give up some stuff and you gain some other stuff instead. So sure, you miss out on stuff; that's because you take something with other stuff. It's fundamentally not different than picking one class to get its abilities, and missing out on the abilities of the other classes. It's the same with choosing alternate racial traits: if you choose one, you don't get the other. D&D 5E has subraces and subclasses too, and picking one means missing out on the others. If you become a Ghostwise Halfling Phantom Rogue in 5E, you miss out on the Lightfoot Halfling's Charisma increase and being Naturally Stealthy as well as on the Scout Rogue's abilities. You can't have it all. Same in both systems, only Pathfinder has a lot more options to choose from and it's a bit more complex because you get to mix and match parts of races and classes rather than having to pick one without getting to modify it.
It's ok to have a preference, absolutely, but actually understanding a system before deciding should help. ;)
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
You are right. Pathfinder 2e solves a lot of issues that 5e has.
In almost all ways Pathfinder 2e is better.
Except for me it isn’t, it is a personal choice thing