The framework is already here. We have 2014 sheets.
Just make a new sheet option for 2024. There is no reason at all to completely shift to 2024 only and you know it. A new option at the very beginning of 'make a character' to hit 2014 or 2024, bam. This is just greedy, and it's not even going to make money. People say this is the reality of gaming, but it's not. It's what big companies want it to be, right up until they start loosing money because people say it's stupid.
THIS. Just make it an option! Otherwise ALL the digital contend that i ONLY bought to use the character sheets (i already had physical copies and thought it was stupid i was having to buy them at full retail to have a digital copy, but it was worth it for the character sheet use) If i can't use the content i paid to use in the character sheets, I'm cancelling my DM tier subscript, and that sucks cause i've been here from day one and would try to sell D&D beyond's convenience to anyone who asked. That's no longer going to be the case.
There is another Topic on the Forums asking if folks would be interested in paying a little more for a subscription to retain access to the current character creation tools (very sus, if you ask me). I answered No.
Why should we have to pay an additional amount for the 'privilege' of having the current character creation build when there are other options out there already offering the features the DDB client base is requesting DDB to provide, and that they could easily do? Their character pages may not have the customized backgrounds or other bells and whistles DDB clients can use to gussy up their pages, but those things are not necessary if the service is providing the same ease-of-creation of our DnD characters for both 2014 and 2024 characters.
If DDB is unwilling to provide those services, then it might be time to move to another provider. I'd rather give my money to someone willing to provide those things I need, rather than a company only looking at their bottom financial line who is showing, quite clearly, that they really don't care about their client base's needs.
There are others that do. Ball's in your court, DDB. My subscription is not the only one hanging on your decision...
Honestly, nothing here seems like that big of a deal. There’s some minor inconveniences if you want to stick with the older versions of spells, but nothing that seems all that difficult to implement through the homebrewing system. Granted, the fact the inconveniences are minor clearly hasn’t stopped the “we want Wizards to fail for.. reasons…” crowd from making a mountain out of this molehill
I am sure your 1 like compared to the 100 likes some are getting—because anyone with even a drop of empathy should be able to understand that people should be able to continue playing a current campaign using the current ruleset and not be expected to build every spell or item that has been changed so they can do so—is reassuring. You constantly accuse critics of being a "vocal minority." The irony.
You don't really have to do any more than homebrew it from the existing spell which is a handful of mouse clicks then pick the homebrew spell on your character sheet.
Yes its annoying. Yes DDB really should have done the first part for us and published them all available for us to choose not to take their default upgrade. I will say that I expect it to be a lot harder after they do the upgrade - as the base spells for the easy homebrew option will change to be the new ones. They should have done it for us but as things are we should probably do it for ourselves sooner rather than later.
You don't really have to do any more than homebrew it from the existing spell which is a handful of mouse clicks then pick the homebrew spell on your character sheet.
Yes its annoying. Yes DDB really should have done the first part for us and published them all available for us to choose not to take their default upgrade. I will say that I expect it to be a lot harder after they do the upgrade - as the base spells for the easy homebrew option will change to be the new ones. They should have done it for us but as things are we should probably do it for ourselves sooner rather than later.
It's not just a few clicks, or a few bits of homebrew though. (The following is copied from another post)
To continue using 2014 rules:-
Anything that references or grants a spell will be switched to the new rules. To continue using the 2014 rules going forward without constantly checking the compendium: • every legacy subclass that grants 2014 spells needs to be homebrewed • every legacy item that grants 2014 spells needs to be homebrewed • every legacy monster that casts 2014 spells will need to be homebrewed It gets more complicated though: • every warlock invocation that grants 2014 spells cannot be homebrewed so they'll always display 2024 spells. • every legacy class that grants extra spells (mainly through the Tasha's expanded lists) cannot be homebrewed so they'll always display 2024 spells.
You don't really have to do any more than homebrew it from the existing spell which is a handful of mouse clicks then pick the homebrew spell on your character sheet.
Yes its annoying. Yes DDB really should have done the first part for us and published them all available for us to choose not to take their default upgrade. I will say that I expect it to be a lot harder after they do the upgrade - as the base spells for the easy homebrew option will change to be the new ones. They should have done it for us but as things are we should probably do it for ourselves sooner rather than later.
It's not just a few clicks, or a few bits of homebrew though. (The following is copied from another post)
To continue using 2014 rules:-
Anything that references or grants a spell will be switched to the new rules. To continue using the 2014 rules going forward without constantly checking the compendium: • every legacy subclass that grants 2014 spells needs to be homebrewed • every legacy item that grants 2014 spells needs to be homebrewed • every legacy monster that casts 2014 spells will need to be homebrewed It gets more complicated though: • every warlock invocation that grants 2014 spells cannot be homebrewed so they'll always display 2024 spells. • every legacy class that grants extra spells (mainly through the Tasha's expanded lists) cannot be homebrewed so they'll always display 2024 spells.
You forgot that every magic item that grants 2014 spells cannot be homebrewed to display 2014 spells. They will always display 2024 spells.
Just another voice in the crowd. I play campaigns with people who have only the books and hard copy character sheets. They are not instantly upgrading our multi-year campaigns to the new system, FOR WHICH THE BOOKS ARE NOT EVEN AVAILABLE YET AND WILL NOT BE FOR MONTHS AFTER THIS TRANSITION. That means that in about a month, DND Beyond will, for no particular reason, break my ability to use the books and tool I paid (and am paying) for.
All you have to do is make 2024 and 2014 separate in the tool. You're not convincing anyone to convert and buy the new system with this, you're just driving people away from this tool and the update.
Bad move, fix it now before we all find a different publisher when we finally are ready to move on from 2014.
Everyone that is half way through a campaign and doesn't want to throw away their level 10 characters and start over at level 1 with a new story. Or have to muddle through trying to learn all the new rules for their old campaign.
1/3 of the people I game with are done playing D&D. Half the DMs I game with aren't buying any more D&D books. And they were sharing content with a master tier subscription.
Luckily my favorite DM owns the books on Roll20 so we get to finish the campaign using the 2014 rules!
Adding to the masses, i too feel this is a very bad thing for the game as a whole. Why can’t there be two different versions of the rules that can have separate sheets?
The DM of our game has just quit the adventure they had started telling out group that they needed time to reorganize their materials and find a way to separate our game from DDB because the ability to continue running it with all the changes that will be made is going to make their ability to run a fun game for our group will be three times harder.
Why, DDB, why?
We were just getting into a grove, starting to really understand what the mechanics were, and began to really have a blast figuring out ways to challenge our gm.
Now the rest of us are wondering if its even worth our time to even continue with D&D or if it wouldn’t be better if we just begin anew with a new different system?
For the love of god DDB, get your act together. Quit trying to be like the rest of the companies that only care about themselves, and not the people who make your game the best it is.
Good We know WotC don't listen to us customers, but media attention helped get them to see sense & reverse course on the OGL. (Or shame them into reversing it, either way).
Good We know WotC don't listen to us customers, but media attention helped get them to see sense & reverse course on the OGL. (Or shame them into reversing it, either way).
There have also been articles cropping up outside of DDB. Word is spreading, and it's not really complimentary to WotC/Hasbro and DDB as to how things are being handled. Although I enjoy creating characters on DDB, if they institute the changes they are preposing I will most likely end my subscription. There are other fish in the sea. D&D is not the only fantasy game out there, as others are starting to realize... If DDB doesn't nip this in the bud they're going to see their revenue stream dwindle rather drastically from the backlash.
It's not just the issue with the Spells and Magical items being 'updated' to the 2024 text. It is also other mechanics being added/changed such as how Hide and Sneak Attack work in the 2024 ruleset vs the 2014 ruleset, as well as how invocations, metamagic and some of the subclasses are going to be affected. Quite frankly, I fully expect that these changes are going to break many character sheet tools for those running 2014 campaigns. Pity. DDB used to be such a unique tool. Now it seems as if it's nothing more than a tool's money scheme.
Yeah, I've seen a dozen or so, although most have only referenced the removal of spells and items, your link goes into a bit more detail. I've started seeing a few live play dm's start posting on twitter about it too, and they're against it. Hopefully things will have spread by Monday when the DDB/WotC offices open.
As somebody who literally owns every book on this site and is in a middle of a campaign, this is just total BS.
If I can´t use the content as stated and the reason I bought it on DnD Beyond is to use it then I want my money back for each and every book I have bought.
Then I´ll just buy Tales of the Valiant or some product from somebody who isn´t scummy
My subscription isn´t the only thing that is on the line. I came back for 5e in 2020 from playing 2nd edition after a 20 year hiatus from DnD while I played other systems. I probably spend over 1000$ on RPG products each year. I have no need to give money to WotC and I am not locked into one system.
So goodbye WotC. If you don´t provide what I need it´s time to take my business elsewhere
I have test published one of the SRD spells in the old version as homebrew. If it sits there for a while I will consider publishing the set of SRD spells when I have a couple of hours
But really the devs should be doing this and in dev channels I've already offered to help with that.
Wizards of the Coast gave us everything they needed to play d&d until we fade to dust with the creative Commons update.
This is a blatant attempt to force everyone to buy their new product by forcing inconveniences upon their customers.
Been a master tier subscriber basically since this site started. So many things are still not finished and you're removing features..
Still can't make custom warlock invocations, still can't make custom common non-magical equipment. And then you pull stuff out and make it harder to use your system?
You are out of touch, this gaming community is not the same as a bunch of Bros playing Halo in 2003.
Not much to add here other than to say I join the ranks of those having unsubscribed in protest over the proposed changes, having been a master tier subscriber for many years. I have been censored for months on these forums for anticipating and calling out this very eventuality, which now makes sense in light of these announcements. Anything to stop paying customers from voicing dissenting opinions. Now that the truth is out, my voice is just one more among the tide of discontent. Have exported all my content and await to see where this ends up going. Dare say I will probably never resubscribe unless some sincere and meaningful corrective action is taken. A real shame, as have been an avid user of this site since its inception and genuinely loved the benefits that the tools brought to the game.
Wizards of the Coast gave us everything they needed to play d&d until we fade to dust with the creative Commons update.
This is a blatant attempt to force everyone to buy their new product by forcing inconveniences upon their customers.
Been a master tier subscriber basically since this site started. So many things are still not finished and you're removing features..
Still can't make custom warlock invocations, still can't make custom common non-magical equipment. And then you pull stuff out and make it harder to use your system?
You are out of touch, this gaming community is not the same as a bunch of Bros playing Halo in 2003.
Out of touch, and not getting my money anymore.
Those touting the new spells as improvements keep forgetting that there are also spells that got nerfed, and some rather drastically.
I was involved in a playtest last week for the 2024 PHB and decided to create a wizard. I took the Find Familiar spell, only to discover that in the 2024 editions the mechanic for Familiars has been so drastically nerfed that the spell went from being a must-have on the wizard's spell list to a why bother. I was told that Familiars can no longer use the help action, they can't deliver touch spells-a major help for a squishy class, and doesn't aid you or your allies with flanking. They went from being an important of the team to nothing more than a decorative shoulder pet that can scout ahead if they're quiet enough.
Find Familiar is not the only spell affected in this manner. Yes, I can homebrew the spell, and most likely will. But, unless a player is aware of the spell changes, they will be in for a rude awakening when they see the new text after the 3rd. Homebrewing, at that point is going to require a lot more than clicking on the current form of the spell and adding it to your homebrew collection. This will be true for all spells with changes.
I also found it very telling that I couldn't find the wording for the 2024 Find Familiar spell when I did a google search. Only the 2014 version came up.
The issue is for people playing active campaigns with the 5e ruleset.
They're literally forcing players to upgrade their spells to the new versions, which is NOT something I want to have to worry about ahead of my weekly session, for a character that I've been playing for years already.
They're straight up messing with my existing character sheet, replacing spell descriptions which I paid for, and if I don't like it, I have to homebrew my spells.
This act, coupled with the OGL debacle last year, led me to start learning Pathfinder this weekend because I'm so over Wizard's continuously screwing their fans over.
If you play 5e 2014, DND Beyond is no longer a viable character creator. Period.
For the millions of people actively playing DND today, they are being forced to adopt 5.5 content on Day 1 of release, if they use this site.
I'd be totally fine if they defaulted new characters to 2024 and hid the 2014 toggle deep in the settings.
It's the complete and total lack of care for the millions of people playing DND right now, who use this site, whose active characters are being forcefully changed.
It's a punishment to every player who doesn't plan on upgrading to 5.5e on Day 1.
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THIS. Just make it an option! Otherwise ALL the digital contend that i ONLY bought to use the character sheets (i already had physical copies and thought it was stupid i was having to buy them at full retail to have a digital copy, but it was worth it for the character sheet use) If i can't use the content i paid to use in the character sheets, I'm cancelling my DM tier subscript, and that sucks cause i've been here from day one and would try to sell D&D beyond's convenience to anyone who asked. That's no longer going to be the case.
There is another Topic on the Forums asking if folks would be interested in paying a little more for a subscription to retain access to the current character creation tools (very sus, if you ask me). I answered No.
Why should we have to pay an additional amount for the 'privilege' of having the current character creation build when there are other options out there already offering the features the DDB client base is requesting DDB to provide, and that they could easily do? Their character pages may not have the customized backgrounds or other bells and whistles DDB clients can use to gussy up their pages, but those things are not necessary if the service is providing the same ease-of-creation of our DnD characters for both 2014 and 2024 characters.
If DDB is unwilling to provide those services, then it might be time to move to another provider. I'd rather give my money to someone willing to provide those things I need, rather than a company only looking at their bottom financial line who is showing, quite clearly, that they really don't care about their client base's needs.
There are others that do. Ball's in your court, DDB. My subscription is not the only one hanging on your decision...
I am sure your 1 like compared to the 100 likes some are getting—because anyone with even a drop of empathy should be able to understand that people should be able to continue playing a current campaign using the current ruleset and not be expected to build every spell or item that has been changed so they can do so—is reassuring. You constantly accuse critics of being a "vocal minority." The irony.
I get it - but also its a few mouse clicks
You don't really have to do any more than homebrew it from the existing spell which is a handful of mouse clicks then pick the homebrew spell on your character sheet.
Yes its annoying. Yes DDB really should have done the first part for us and published them all available for us to choose not to take their default upgrade. I will say that I expect it to be a lot harder after they do the upgrade - as the base spells for the easy homebrew option will change to be the new ones. They should have done it for us but as things are we should probably do it for ourselves sooner rather than later.
It's not just a few clicks, or a few bits of homebrew though. (The following is copied from another post)
To continue using 2014 rules:-
Anything that references or grants a spell will be switched to the new rules. To continue using the 2014 rules going forward without constantly checking the compendium:
• every legacy subclass that grants 2014 spells needs to be homebrewed
• every legacy item that grants 2014 spells needs to be homebrewed
• every legacy monster that casts 2014 spells will need to be homebrewed It gets more complicated though:
• every warlock invocation that grants 2014 spells cannot be homebrewed so they'll always display 2024 spells.
• every legacy class that grants extra spells (mainly through the Tasha's expanded lists) cannot be homebrewed so they'll always display 2024 spells.
You forgot that every magic item that grants 2014 spells cannot be homebrewed to display 2014 spells. They will always display 2024 spells.
Just another voice in the crowd. I play campaigns with people who have only the books and hard copy character sheets. They are not instantly upgrading our multi-year campaigns to the new system, FOR WHICH THE BOOKS ARE NOT EVEN AVAILABLE YET AND WILL NOT BE FOR MONTHS AFTER THIS TRANSITION. That means that in about a month, DND Beyond will, for no particular reason, break my ability to use the books and tool I paid (and am paying) for.
All you have to do is make 2024 and 2014 separate in the tool. You're not convincing anyone to convert and buy the new system with this, you're just driving people away from this tool and the update.
Bad move, fix it now before we all find a different publisher when we finally are ready to move on from 2014.
Seems word is starting to get out further than the forums. Only a matter of time until we start seeing videos and podcasts regarding this issue. https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-dndbeyond-spells-changes-character-sheet-2024/
Everyone that is half way through a campaign and doesn't want to throw away their level 10 characters and start over at level 1 with a new story. Or have to muddle through trying to learn all the new rules for their old campaign.
1/3 of the people I game with are done playing D&D. Half the DMs I game with aren't buying any more D&D books. And they were sharing content with a master tier subscription.
Luckily my favorite DM owns the books on Roll20 so we get to finish the campaign using the 2014 rules!
Adding to the masses, i too feel this is a very bad thing for the game as a whole. Why can’t there be two different versions of the rules that can have separate sheets?
The DM of our game has just quit the adventure they had started telling out group that they needed time to reorganize their materials and find a way to separate our game from DDB because the ability to continue running it with all the changes that will be made is going to make their ability to run a fun game for our group will be three times harder.
Why, DDB, why?
We were just getting into a grove, starting to really understand what the mechanics were, and began to really have a blast figuring out ways to challenge our gm.
Now the rest of us are wondering if its even worth our time to even continue with D&D or if it wouldn’t be better if we just begin anew with a new different system?
For the love of god DDB, get your act together. Quit trying to be like the rest of the companies that only care about themselves, and not the people who make your game the best it is.
FIX THIS!!!!!
[Redacted]
Good We know WotC don't listen to us customers, but media attention helped get them to see sense & reverse course on the OGL. (Or shame them into reversing it, either way).
There have also been articles cropping up outside of DDB. Word is spreading, and it's not really complimentary to WotC/Hasbro and DDB as to how things are being handled. Although I enjoy creating characters on DDB, if they institute the changes they are preposing I will most likely end my subscription. There are other fish in the sea. D&D is not the only fantasy game out there, as others are starting to realize... If DDB doesn't nip this in the bud they're going to see their revenue stream dwindle rather drastically from the backlash.
It's not just the issue with the Spells and Magical items being 'updated' to the 2024 text. It is also other mechanics being added/changed such as how Hide and Sneak Attack work in the 2024 ruleset vs the 2014 ruleset, as well as how invocations, metamagic and some of the subclasses are going to be affected. Quite frankly, I fully expect that these changes are going to break many character sheet tools for those running 2014 campaigns. Pity. DDB used to be such a unique tool. Now it seems as if it's nothing more than a tool's money scheme.
Yeah, I've seen a dozen or so, although most have only referenced the removal of spells and items, your link goes into a bit more detail. I've started seeing a few live play dm's start posting on twitter about it too, and they're against it. Hopefully things will have spread by Monday when the DDB/WotC offices open.
As somebody who literally owns every book on this site and is in a middle of a campaign, this is just total BS.
If I can´t use the content as stated and the reason I bought it on DnD Beyond is to use it then I want my money back for each and every book I have bought.
Then I´ll just buy Tales of the Valiant or some product from somebody who isn´t scummy
My subscription isn´t the only thing that is on the line. I came back for 5e in 2020 from playing 2nd edition after a 20 year hiatus from DnD while I played other systems. I probably spend over 1000$ on RPG products each year. I have no need to give money to WotC and I am not locked into one system.
So goodbye WotC. If you don´t provide what I need it´s time to take my business elsewhere
For mod notice
I have test published one of the SRD spells in the old version as homebrew. If it sits there for a while I will consider publishing the set of SRD spells when I have a couple of hours
But really the devs should be doing this and in dev channels I've already offered to help with that.
Wizards of the Coast gave us everything they needed to play d&d until we fade to dust with the creative Commons update.
This is a blatant attempt to force everyone to buy their new product by forcing inconveniences upon their customers.
Been a master tier subscriber basically since this site started. So many things are still not finished and you're removing features..
Still can't make custom warlock invocations, still can't make custom common non-magical equipment. And then you pull stuff out and make it harder to use your system?
You are out of touch, this gaming community is not the same as a bunch of Bros playing Halo in 2003.
Out of touch, and not getting my money anymore.
Communication is the key.
Not much to add here other than to say I join the ranks of those having unsubscribed in protest over the proposed changes, having been a master tier subscriber for many years. I have been censored for months on these forums for anticipating and calling out this very eventuality, which now makes sense in light of these announcements. Anything to stop paying customers from voicing dissenting opinions. Now that the truth is out, my voice is just one more among the tide of discontent. Have exported all my content and await to see where this ends up going. Dare say I will probably never resubscribe unless some sincere and meaningful corrective action is taken. A real shame, as have been an avid user of this site since its inception and genuinely loved the benefits that the tools brought to the game.
Those touting the new spells as improvements keep forgetting that there are also spells that got nerfed, and some rather drastically.
I was involved in a playtest last week for the 2024 PHB and decided to create a wizard. I took the Find Familiar spell, only to discover that in the 2024 editions the mechanic for Familiars has been so drastically nerfed that the spell went from being a must-have on the wizard's spell list to a why bother. I was told that Familiars can no longer use the help action, they can't deliver touch spells-a major help for a squishy class, and doesn't aid you or your allies with flanking. They went from being an important of the team to nothing more than a decorative shoulder pet that can scout ahead if they're quiet enough.
Find Familiar is not the only spell affected in this manner. Yes, I can homebrew the spell, and most likely will. But, unless a player is aware of the spell changes, they will be in for a rude awakening when they see the new text after the 3rd. Homebrewing, at that point is going to require a lot more than clicking on the current form of the spell and adding it to your homebrew collection. This will be true for all spells with changes.
I also found it very telling that I couldn't find the wording for the 2024 Find Familiar spell when I did a google search. Only the 2014 version came up.
The issue is for people playing active campaigns with the 5e ruleset.
They're literally forcing players to upgrade their spells to the new versions, which is NOT something I want to have to worry about ahead of my weekly session, for a character that I've been playing for years already.
They're straight up messing with my existing character sheet, replacing spell descriptions which I paid for, and if I don't like it, I have to homebrew my spells.
This act, coupled with the OGL debacle last year, led me to start learning Pathfinder this weekend because I'm so over Wizard's continuously screwing their fans over.
If you play 5e 2014, DND Beyond is no longer a viable character creator. Period.
For the millions of people actively playing DND today, they are being forced to adopt 5.5 content on Day 1 of release, if they use this site.
I'd be totally fine if they defaulted new characters to 2024 and hid the 2014 toggle deep in the settings.
It's the complete and total lack of care for the millions of people playing DND right now, who use this site, whose active characters are being forcefully changed.
It's a punishment to every player who doesn't plan on upgrading to 5.5e on Day 1.