I got thinking the other day, I am currently playing in a cyberpunk game, because a friend wanted to try running a game with the new rules, I have a soft spot for Cyberpunk as it is the first ever RPG system I played and I think it is a really well written world and system so I was really excited about playing. The players are really good friends and we are having fun socially while playing on Zoom.
But, I realised this week, I really just don't enjoy being a player. I know everyone talks about DM burnout, and it's good to have one shots etc to give you time to prep or just take a break but, as I have got older I have come to realise I just don't enjoy it as much. It isn't that I rules lawyer, or sit there thinking I can tell a better story or run a better adventure. This current game is really good fun and the GM is doing a great job. The players have really got into the vibe as well, it is just that I don't like being the other side of the table. Which now gives me a problem, I know my friend want's to continue GM ing for this group after we finish the current Cyberpunk adventure. I think they will either re roll new characters with the now fully released rules, or he might run something different for 6-9 months. I want to spend this time with my friends, before lockdown we would generally meet out at the pub once to twice a month. I do not want him thinking I don't like his style of GM, I do. So I guess I will just participate and hope to find something that clicks in the same way I get excited about DMing.
Anyone else have this issue, as DM's do you enjoy playing as well, or like me is it something you are just meh about, I mean, I don't hate it, I just don't get all excited about it. maybe its the fact i am not prepping for it, or that despite all best efforts I only will ever get a portion of the time to do stuff that I would as a DM. Or maybe it's that I feel trapped being just one character i this huge expansive world. Just intrigued how other DM's find it, in any system, being on the other side of the table.
Maybe I just had toxic games in the past, but my return to TTRPGs as a DM has been way more enjoyable than my time as a player. I think I could always see the potential of these games, but could never realize it as a player.
Yes. As the years press on, I get much more from the hobby as a DM than I do as a player. While playing the game for sure, but I spend a lot of time each week thinking about the game, while taking a walk, driving to work, whenever I have idol thoughts time. The well of things to think about as a DM has no bottom, but I find the player version of that well is shallow and runs dry quickly between sessions.
I love being a player in old BX and Call of Cthulhu games, but for modern dnd I'd rather be a DM. Modern dnd (high magic sesame street as I often joke) is just not the world or feel that I enjoy being a player in, but I have no problem with mastering a game in that setting.
I agree Scarloc. As I play, I find myself, thinking of how I could expand on what is going on. Also on my time off, I do not think of my characters and how I want to build them up and improve, but I think of my next campaign. Currently I just finished a long campaign to 15th level, but now I am playing and miss it dearly.
I tend to prefer leading my players through things and let them create their stories with the occasional scenery from me. I like the idea of playing until I’m there, as a GM I have the chance to give things my own flair and secretly I love playing games with my players, trying to trick them or catch them out. Much more difficult to do as a player. Some people are just made to run these games!
The GM is still a player, right? The Meh feeling being a player is definitely real. Doesn't mean anything is wrong.
I have the same sentiments as everyone. For me, Got reintroduced to D&D via 5e after a decade-ish or so from last playing casually with some other friends from years ago (must have been 3 or 3.5e at the time). I thought 5e was fun, just depended, we also had a large group and seems like we did combat half the time, so it took a while for my Turn to come up. Thought it was all pretty okay. Then I asked if I could try to be DM. Had way more fun. Now I can feel immersed in every interaction, dice roll, and feel much more involved. Now I've branched out & invested into several other rpgs systems as well, and have enjoyed GM'ing those even more.
I've tried running the "official" published modules, and honestly I never feel like I'm "part of the game" with those, but rather just a narrator telling a child a bedtime story and occasionally interjecting my own wit, a-la Perter Falk in "The Princess Bride". There's a plot, a story, a linear path, sometimes even a full script (I'm looking at you Descent into Avernus). With encounters that are mathematically designed for a party of X(Qty) of X(Level) to successfully overcome in order to progress the designed story that has been written, edited, and printed.
I much prefer emergent story telling where the actions of the players/characters drive a story that is unfolding and they do not feel compelled to follow any thread but rather pave their own path. I like being surprised at the table with encounter tables, reaction tables, etc that mold how things respond to character interaction. Give me a good Hexcrawl like "The Dark of Hot Springs Island" or "The Maze of the Blu Medusa". As the DM I actually "feel" like a player wile running those games. But what really steams my manapua is to just wing it as I go. It took decades to be able to do that though, and I'll never feel like I'm "good" at it, though my players enjoy it.
Don't get me wrong, I have run some modules that I really enjoyed. Winter's Daughter, Deep Carbon Observatory, and a slew of others. I just don't feel like "part of the team" with the way the modern "campaign adventure books" are written.
Urandom, try to run a homebrew module. I felt the same way. Or modify the book modules to your liking. When it is your creation, you find yourself more "into it" . You will not feel like just a narrator. A little more work, but fun. Good luck and best to you
Urandom, try to run a homebrew module. I felt the same way. Or modify the book modules to your liking. When it is your creation, you find yourself more "into it" . You will not feel like just a narrator. A little more work, but fun. Good luck and best to you
I'm assuming you didn't fully read the second paragraph, no worries. I've been at this since the 70s and have found my "groove", I was merely responding to Johnwinstonh's rhetorical question. Thank you for being an encouraging word though, most people in forums see opposing opinions from the echo chamber and just turn toxic.
Yes. As the years press on, I get much more from the hobby as a DM than I do as a player. While playing the game for sure, but I spend a lot of time each week thinking about the game, while taking a walk, driving to work, whenever I have idol thoughts time. The well of things to think about as a DM has no bottom, but I find the player version of that well is shallow and runs dry quickly between sessions.
I'd say mine leans into this. I have an obsessive and tinkering nature, so when I'm a playing I get done tinkering quick and need something else to do.
I've been able to curb it a bit for the new game as DM else I end up thinking of far too many new things I could do between sessions which can lead to the session being a bit scrambled.
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All posts come with the caveat that I don't know what I'm talking about.
I don't mind being the player for play-by-posts, but for IRL campaigns, I am too ADHD (I have an actual diagnosis, not making fun of anyone) to be a player. I get distracted too easily, too lost in my own thoughts, whenever it isn't my turn. When I DM, as I normally do, I am able to actually focus, because it's in a sense ALWAYS my turn as DM.
I've tried running the "official" published modules, and honestly I never feel like I'm "part of the game" with those, but rather just a narrator telling a child a bedtime story and occasionally interjecting my own wit, a-la Perter Falk in "The Princess Bride". There's a plot, a story, a linear path, sometimes even a full script (I'm looking at you Descent into Avernus). With encounters that are mathematically designed for a party of X(Qty) of X(Level) to successfully overcome in order to progress the designed story that has been written, edited, and printed.
I much prefer emergent story telling where the actions of the players/characters drive a story that is unfolding and they do not feel compelled to follow any thread but rather pave their own path. I like being surprised at the table with encounter tables, reaction tables, etc that mold how things respond to character interaction. Give me a good Hexcrawl like "The Dark of Hot Springs Island" or "The Maze of the Blu Medusa". As the DM I actually "feel" like a player wile running those games. But what really steams my manapua is to just wing it as I go. It took decades to be able to do that though, and I'll never feel like I'm "good" at it, though my players enjoy it.
Don't get me wrong, I have run some modules that I really enjoyed. Winter's Daughter, Deep Carbon Observatory, and a slew of others. I just don't feel like "part of the team" with the way the modern "campaign adventure books" are written.
Urandom, try to run a homebrew module. I felt the same way. Or modify the book modules to your liking. When it is your creation, you find yourself more "into it" . You will not feel like just a narrator. A little more work, but fun. Good luck and best to you
I'm assuming you didn't fully read the second paragraph, no worries. I've been at this since the 70s and have found my "groove", I was merely responding to Johnwinstonh's rhetorical question. Thank you for being an encouraging word though, most people in forums see opposing opinions from the echo chamber and just turn toxic.
Great conversation. And I hope I didn't accidently cause some sort of unintentional rift. I suppose I shouldn't have started off in such an obtuse and potentially misleading question. The sentiment expressed that a GM is a player is made in the affirmative sense that a GM is still coming to play a game and still having fun in their own way, and that we who deign to be GMs aren't necessarily an entirely different category of persons. That is, we are not computers. I do fully agree that playing a module as written, without personal creative adaptation, is restrictive in my opinion. Crafting encounters, reactive scenarios that build upon themselves and adapt to choices made is entirely part of my personal fun. I get to be surprised as much as the player character. I've dumped loads of preplanned material, abandoned whole adventures, based on the directions taken by the players, actually turns out I enjoy when that happens for some strange reason cuz I'm just as curious as the players to figure out what's gonna happen next session.
I enjoy being a player in sci-fi RPGs ala Star Wars or Rogue Trader but struggle in fantasy. I think it is because sci-fi incorporates much of our wirld so I can relate to it, unluke Fantasy ehich is more medieval in tone and thus somewhat alien.
Also sci-fi allows for a greater varirty of viewpoints and backgrounds than the rather simpler medieval fantasy world where the vast majority of people are illiterate peasants.
Love being a player! I've been a DM for three years and have played about 20 times as a player.
Had some good times and bad times as a player having to play in another DM's world and rules. But always had fun with the other players.
Not me but maybe it's hard for a DM o give up that power over the world.
Go be a player. Go have fun. Be silly be fun. Once you find the right DM you'll enjoy being a player. You have just not found that person yet. You will. Takes time.
Don't get me wrong, I have run some modules that I really enjoyed. Winter's Daughter, Deep Carbon Observatory, and a slew of others. I just don't feel like "part of the team" with the way the modern "campaign adventure books" are written.
I hear that. I think it has to do as much with the size and what details they focus on in the 5e modules. Like adventure modules up until just the last few years were essentially the depictions of a place with history, where events are transpiring with quite a bit of vagueness to ensure that the DM would have ample space to interject their own twists. I think only during the 2nd edition AD&D days did we ever get these sort of scripted "on rails" modules and those fell out of favor rather quickly back then as well.
The strange thing is that one can presume that a scripted on rails module would be designed for new players and DM's to ease them into playing D&D, but strictly speaking I wouldn't recommend any of the published module books to a new players/DM. Like all of these books, even the very first one were fairly complex to run. While simultaneously generally speaking experienced groups and DM's don't want scripted adventures. So I always wondered who the audience actually was for 5e adventure modules, because they don't seem to fit in with new groups or experienced groups.
lost mine of Phandelver is a great first module to run, dragon of icespire peak is a good second one in that it is a lot more sandbox and needs the DM to do a lot more prep and additional work. I think Strahd can work well for a new DM, but all published modules need the DM to do prep work up front, I think what they all lack is a few pages in the intro for new DMs explaining what the gaps are that have been left.
Love being a player! I've been a DM for three years and have played about 20 times as a player.
Had some good times and bad times as a player having to play in another DM's world and rules. But always had fun with the other players.
Not me but maybe it's hard for a DM o give up that power over the world.
Go be a player. Go have fun. Be silly be fun. Once you find the right DM you'll enjoy being a player. You have just not found that person yet. You will. Takes time.
I really don’t think it’s the DM at all, am playing with my mates am having fun the campaign is fun the setting is crazy, cyberpunk is so much fun to play in. My DM is really good fun as a dm, I just really am not inspired and I think it is because I am bored, sitting watching waiting for my turn playing a single role to me the 3-4 hours every 3 weeks I am spending on this I can’t help think I could be running a game for another party, but that means me not spending time with my mates. I am 25 years roleplaying, spent 15 years as a player then switch to regular DM about 10 years ago and I think I just am done with wanting to be that side of the table.
I’ve been DMing for a little less than a year now, and in that entire time, I’ve played a character once. I enjoyed the experience, but my DM brain was getting annoyed not having every bit of information, and I gladly took my regular seat behind the screen next session. It did give me some valuable insight as to how the players view the game, though.
I'm a forever DM since the eighties, and wouldn't have it any other way. Creating the foundation for my players to have maximum fun is in turn what makes the game fun for me, and every game session is a new creative challenge that I enjoy.
I have also played the electric bass for 42 years, and my role as a bass player is to lay the foundation for the music and make it groove
So, both playing music and DM:ing is creative outlets that I approach from the same angle and find the same kind of enjoyment from. I'm just that kind of guy I guess.
I'm a forever DM since the eighties, and wouldn't have it any other way. Creating the foundation for my players to have maximum fun is in turn what makes the game fun for me, and every game session is a new creative challenge that I enjoy.
I have also played the electric bass for 42 years, and my role as a bass player is to lay the foundation for the music and make it groove
So, both playing music and DM:ing is creative outlets that I approach from the same angle and find the same kind of enjoyment from. I'm just that kind of guy I guess.
As a musician I get that correlation. Nice!
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I got thinking the other day, I am currently playing in a cyberpunk game, because a friend wanted to try running a game with the new rules, I have a soft spot for Cyberpunk as it is the first ever RPG system I played and I think it is a really well written world and system so I was really excited about playing. The players are really good friends and we are having fun socially while playing on Zoom.
But, I realised this week, I really just don't enjoy being a player. I know everyone talks about DM burnout, and it's good to have one shots etc to give you time to prep or just take a break but, as I have got older I have come to realise I just don't enjoy it as much. It isn't that I rules lawyer, or sit there thinking I can tell a better story or run a better adventure. This current game is really good fun and the GM is doing a great job. The players have really got into the vibe as well, it is just that I don't like being the other side of the table. Which now gives me a problem, I know my friend want's to continue GM ing for this group after we finish the current Cyberpunk adventure. I think they will either re roll new characters with the now fully released rules, or he might run something different for 6-9 months. I want to spend this time with my friends, before lockdown we would generally meet out at the pub once to twice a month. I do not want him thinking I don't like his style of GM, I do. So I guess I will just participate and hope to find something that clicks in the same way I get excited about DMing.
Anyone else have this issue, as DM's do you enjoy playing as well, or like me is it something you are just meh about, I mean, I don't hate it, I just don't get all excited about it. maybe its the fact i am not prepping for it, or that despite all best efforts I only will ever get a portion of the time to do stuff that I would as a DM. Or maybe it's that I feel trapped being just one character i this huge expansive world. Just intrigued how other DM's find it, in any system, being on the other side of the table.
Maybe I just had toxic games in the past, but my return to TTRPGs as a DM has been way more enjoyable than my time as a player. I think I could always see the potential of these games, but could never realize it as a player.
Yes. As the years press on, I get much more from the hobby as a DM than I do as a player. While playing the game for sure, but I spend a lot of time each week thinking about the game, while taking a walk, driving to work, whenever I have idol thoughts time. The well of things to think about as a DM has no bottom, but I find the player version of that well is shallow and runs dry quickly between sessions.
I love being a player in old BX and Call of Cthulhu games, but for modern dnd I'd rather be a DM.
Modern dnd (high magic sesame street as I often joke) is just not the world or feel that I enjoy being a player in, but I have no problem with mastering a game in that setting.
...cryptographic randomness!
I agree Scarloc. As I play, I find myself, thinking of how I could expand on what is going on. Also on my time off, I do not think of my characters and how I want to build them up and improve, but I think of my next campaign. Currently I just finished a long campaign to 15th level, but now I am playing and miss it dearly.
I tend to prefer leading my players through things and let them create their stories with the occasional scenery from me. I like the idea of playing until I’m there, as a GM I have the chance to give things my own flair and secretly I love playing games with my players, trying to trick them or catch them out. Much more difficult to do as a player. Some people are just made to run these games!
The GM is still a player, right? The Meh feeling being a player is definitely real. Doesn't mean anything is wrong.
I have the same sentiments as everyone. For me, Got reintroduced to D&D via 5e after a decade-ish or so from last playing casually with some other friends from years ago (must have been 3 or 3.5e at the time). I thought 5e was fun, just depended, we also had a large group and seems like we did combat half the time, so it took a while for my Turn to come up. Thought it was all pretty okay. Then I asked if I could try to be DM. Had way more fun. Now I can feel immersed in every interaction, dice roll, and feel much more involved. Now I've branched out & invested into several other rpgs systems as well, and have enjoyed GM'ing those even more.
Boldly go
To me the answer is, "it depends."
I've tried running the "official" published modules, and honestly I never feel like I'm "part of the game" with those, but rather just a narrator telling a child a bedtime story and occasionally interjecting my own wit, a-la Perter Falk in "The Princess Bride".
There's a plot, a story, a linear path, sometimes even a full script (I'm looking at you Descent into Avernus).
With encounters that are mathematically designed for a party of X(Qty) of X(Level) to successfully overcome in order to progress the designed story that has been written, edited, and printed.
I much prefer emergent story telling where the actions of the players/characters drive a story that is unfolding and they do not feel compelled to follow any thread but rather pave their own path. I like being surprised at the table with encounter tables, reaction tables, etc that mold how things respond to character interaction. Give me a good Hexcrawl like "The Dark of Hot Springs Island" or "The Maze of the Blu Medusa". As the DM I actually "feel" like a player wile running those games. But what really steams my manapua is to just wing it as I go. It took decades to be able to do that though, and I'll never feel like I'm "good" at it, though my players enjoy it.
Don't get me wrong, I have run some modules that I really enjoyed. Winter's Daughter, Deep Carbon Observatory, and a slew of others. I just don't feel like "part of the team" with the way the modern "campaign adventure books" are written.
...cryptographic randomness!
Urandom, try to run a homebrew module. I felt the same way. Or modify the book modules to your liking. When it is your creation, you find yourself more "into it" . You will not feel like just a narrator. A little more work, but fun. Good luck and best to you
I'm assuming you didn't fully read the second paragraph, no worries. I've been at this since the 70s and have found my "groove", I was merely responding to Johnwinstonh's rhetorical question.
Thank you for being an encouraging word though, most people in forums see opposing opinions from the echo chamber and just turn toxic.
...cryptographic randomness!
I'd say mine leans into this. I have an obsessive and tinkering nature, so when I'm a playing I get done tinkering quick and need something else to do.
I've been able to curb it a bit for the new game as DM else I end up thinking of far too many new things I could do between sessions which can lead to the session being a bit scrambled.
All posts come with the caveat that I don't know what I'm talking about.
I don't mind being the player for play-by-posts, but for IRL campaigns, I am too ADHD (I have an actual diagnosis, not making fun of anyone) to be a player. I get distracted too easily, too lost in my own thoughts, whenever it isn't my turn. When I DM, as I normally do, I am able to actually focus, because it's in a sense ALWAYS my turn as DM.
DM:
Reign of Winter I Curse of the Crimson Throne
Hell's Vengeance | Giantslayer
Varisian Hexalogy: Rise of the Runelords
Player:
Lucille Underfoot, lv. 1 Halfling Storm Sorcerer | Janna Farooq, lv. 1 Human Celestial Warlock
I strive to post at least once per day on all my PbPs. I ask my players to do the same.
More active on weekdays than weekends.
Assume all of my characters are gay.
Great conversation. And I hope I didn't accidently cause some sort of unintentional rift. I suppose I shouldn't have started off in such an obtuse and potentially misleading question. The sentiment expressed that a GM is a player is made in the affirmative sense that a GM is still coming to play a game and still having fun in their own way, and that we who deign to be GMs aren't necessarily an entirely different category of persons. That is, we are not computers. I do fully agree that playing a module as written, without personal creative adaptation, is restrictive in my opinion. Crafting encounters, reactive scenarios that build upon themselves and adapt to choices made is entirely part of my personal fun. I get to be surprised as much as the player character. I've dumped loads of preplanned material, abandoned whole adventures, based on the directions taken by the players, actually turns out I enjoy when that happens for some strange reason cuz I'm just as curious as the players to figure out what's gonna happen next session.
Boldly go
I enjoy being a player in sci-fi RPGs ala Star Wars or Rogue Trader but struggle in fantasy. I think it is because sci-fi incorporates much of our wirld so I can relate to it, unluke Fantasy ehich is more medieval in tone and thus somewhat alien.
Also sci-fi allows for a greater varirty of viewpoints and backgrounds than the rather simpler medieval fantasy world where the vast majority of people are illiterate peasants.
Love being a player! I've been a DM for three years and have played about 20 times as a player.
Had some good times and bad times as a player having to play in another DM's world and rules. But always had fun with the other players.
Not me but maybe it's hard for a DM o give up that power over the world.
Go be a player. Go have fun. Be silly be fun. Once you find the right DM you'll enjoy being a player. You have just not found that person yet. You will. Takes time.
lost mine of Phandelver is a great first module to run, dragon of icespire peak is a good second one in that it is a lot more sandbox and needs the DM to do a lot more prep and additional work. I think Strahd can work well for a new DM, but all published modules need the DM to do prep work up front, I think what they all lack is a few pages in the intro for new DMs explaining what the gaps are that have been left.
I really don’t think it’s the DM at all, am playing with my mates am having fun the campaign is fun the setting is crazy, cyberpunk is so much fun to play in. My DM is really good fun as a dm, I just really am not inspired and I think it is because I am bored, sitting watching waiting for my turn playing a single role to me the 3-4 hours every 3 weeks I am spending on this I can’t help think I could be running a game for another party, but that means me not spending time with my mates. I am 25 years roleplaying, spent 15 years as a player then switch to regular DM about 10 years ago and I think I just am done with wanting to be that side of the table.
I’ve been DMing for a little less than a year now, and in that entire time, I’ve played a character once. I enjoyed the experience, but my DM brain was getting annoyed not having every bit of information, and I gladly took my regular seat behind the screen next session. It did give me some valuable insight as to how the players view the game, though.
I'm a forever DM since the eighties, and wouldn't have it any other way. Creating the foundation for my players to have maximum fun is in turn what makes the game fun for me, and every game session is a new creative challenge that I enjoy.
I have also played the electric bass for 42 years, and my role as a bass player is to lay the foundation for the music and make it groove
So, both playing music and DM:ing is creative outlets that I approach from the same angle and find the same kind of enjoyment from. I'm just that kind of guy I guess.
As a musician I get that correlation. Nice!