Update: The player decided on their own to change races so this is not an issue for me anymore. I am learning a lot from your suggestions however.
How OP is a Level 11 ranger satyr (Tasha's alternate features) with magical resistance in a high magic one-shot with a sorcerer as a BBEG? For various reasons having to do with feats taken, subclass and the composition of the party (Oath of Glory Paladin concentrating on buffs) chances are good that the player will always make their saving throws. Since they would still take half damage most of the time is that a particular problem?
I am play testing a one shot. I don't want to nerf the character or punish the player for the build. I'm not just not sure how to challenge them without the rest of the party getting beaten to a pulp. The rest of the player's build pretty much negates everything I have planned for in each encounter. The other players who created less optimized builds might not have much fun. It also might not be fun for the player because who wants to steamroll over everything? I also don't want to completely rewrite the one shot because of one player.
That's why I am asking more experienced and knowledgeable DMs for advice on creatures with effects that are not magical that I can use or other ways to occasionally (I want to stress that. I think everyone should have fun and it is up to the DM to figure out how to challenge part of the party without killing the other part) put the satyr in danger. I know I can throw minions with weapons at them but there is also the issue of a high AC possible made higher with buffs.
Thanks in advance. I'm sure this sounds like an easy to solve problem for most of you but I wouldn't be asking for advice if I thought it was. I have had occasions when I have asked for DM advice and other DMs have been unkind to say the least, which is why I have been hesitant to ask for advice here. I'm not asking for judgement, just help so all of my players can have a good time.
You have more problems than just magical resistance. You have an aura around that Paladin of 10 feet, which I am betting is a +5 to all saves to any char within that aura. The only thing you can do is target that Ranger with a ton of martial attacks. by intelligent creatures that recognize that char is the linchpin to the party. If players can focus fire or play intelligently when facing a BBEG, then the BBEG and its minions can do the same to the party.
You can't beat the Ranger with Wisdom saves, as you stated, which negates Enemies Abound or the equivalent. You might be able to focus on Str or Dex based spells, more likely effects that require ability checks, which Saves won't help with. If the Ranger is a Str based version, go Dex, and vice versa.
I would recommend a minion that is a Warlock, that casts Hex on the weakest of Str or Dex, and then fire up a bunch of effects that then amplify that weakness.
Yep, the +5 is also a problem :-) but they are all at Level 11 so I expect them to have huge resources to draw from. That's why I am play testing this at that level. I just didn't expect to have to deal with magical resistance on top of that. It freaked me out a bit. Then I started overthinking it. The intelligent enemies are also fey so they will know not to bother much with magical attacks and I think I can homebrew something that is like a dragon's breath which is not considered a magical affect. Thank you for reminding me about ability checks. I did not think about a warlock with Hex but that is a great idea. I can easily add something like that.
Great ideas. I am feeling better about this. Thanks.
If the BBEG is a sorcerer, give them a metamagic option to bypass magic resistance (or maybe better yet, to impose disadvantage on saves against their spells, which lets the magic resistance still actually do something).
If the BBEG is a sorcerer, give them a metamagic option to bypass magic resistance (or maybe better yet, to impose disadvantage on saves against their spells, which lets the magic resistance still actually do something).
Excellent idea! Heighten is an expensive metamagic but it does just that. Then the saving throw would just be a straight roll. Thanks!
Just ban this species. I know you wanted methods to combat a specific species/class mix, but why go through all these gyrations when banning that mix is a much easier solution?
The banhammer is such an unwieldy tool though, and is pretty much textbook nerfing the character and punishing the player. And if you ban this race, why not ban the paladin - that aura is a bigger deal than the satyr race - or anything else that makes your life as DM harder?
It’s water under the bridge now, but my suggestion would be to not prepare/write any part of the adventure until you might need it. You want the entire structure and outline, sure, but the details and specifics of most of the encounters can probably wait and if you do wait, you can create them with all you’ve learned from the game so far in mind. For now, I’d say add some generic martial minions and scale some of the magic back. Pick any published monster you like for this and jazz them up with some flavour, Bob’s your uncle. If AC is an issue, increase their attack bonus. If they go down too easy, increase their hit points and/or save bonuses. All of this can be done on the fly in the middle of an encounter too - just about the only thing you shouldn’t do is change the AC of a monster mid-fight, although you certainly can do that at the start. Prep a good encounter sheet, update it whenever you make adjustments just like you would to track damage taken or conditions that get applied, and you’ll be fine. In the words of Bruce Lee: be water. Flexibility is a huge asset for DMs.
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The ranger is not proficient with either constitution or wisdom saving throws unless they picked up resilient or they are a gloomstalker who picks up wis saves.
The DC for your BBEG should be at least 17 ... more likely 18-21.
The ranger thus likely has a +2 on con and maybe a +3 on wis saves. If the DC is 19 then they would need to roll either 16 or 17 with advantage - this fails more than 1/2 the time.
So ... the issue is not the Magic Resistance (I've played a character with MR at level 11 and it really wasn't much of a problem for the DM). The problem is the +5 static bonus from the paladin and the likely bless spell also from the paladin. This adds a +7.5 average to the rangers saving throws which really increases the chance of making them - so that they will only fail about 25% of the time (both rolls below 8 or 9) ... which will happen but it isn't reliable.
In addition though, the paladin saves are helping everyone else within 10'.
However, I am guessing the ranger may not be within 10' of the paladin if they are a ranged attacker? In that case, the MR by itself is less effective than the straight +5 from a paladins saving throw bonus. It is only the combination of the +5 and MR that is making it more difficult to affect the ranger.
TLDR The real issue is the paladin and their buffs and bonus to saves rather than the MR on the ranger.
If you do not want to deal with it as a DM after giving it some considerable thought (which seems you have) it is completely fine to talk with the player and explain your hesitation and ask for a different race.
Do not feel like you have to accept everything and anything simply because it exists. Your fun as a DM is important too and if you feel it puts a burden on you its ok to say "no"
Thanks to everyone. The player on their own decided to change race. The paladin is an issue but he will mostly be in melee range with the squishier characters standing as far away possible. As I said, I saw magic resistance and freaked out. I wasn't familiar with satyrs before I got the character sheet. Once I really thought about it (thanks to advice here), I realized it might not be as much of an issue as I originally thought. I love all of your ideas and am grateful for the assistance.
David 42. The ranger did indeed pick up resilience. :-) and has a +4 to wisdom. It was built to be able to do both ranged and melee attacks - although melee isn't as strong. The dump stat was intelligence. Like I said it really was a good build. I admire the thought put into it. The magical resistance seemed like it would be a headache though. Good to know that it isn't actually much of a problem. When I did research it seemed the camp was divided and that it was more of a problem for DMs running casters than those running mostly martial BBEGs.
Just ban this species. I know you wanted methods to combat a specific species/class mix, but why go through all these gyrations when banning that mix is a much easier solution?
The banhammer is such an unwieldy tool though, and is pretty much textbook nerfing the character and punishing the player. And if you ban this race, why not ban the paladin - that aura is a bigger deal than the satyr race - or anything else that makes your life as DM harder?
It’s water under the bridge now, but my suggestion would be to not prepare/write any part of the adventure until you might need it. You want the entire structure and outline, sure, but the details and specifics of most of the encounters can probably wait and if you do wait, you can create them with all you’ve learned from the game so far in mind. For now, I’d say add some generic martial minions and scale some of the magic back. Pick any published monster you like for this and jazz them up with some flavour, Bob’s your uncle. If AC is an issue, increase their attack bonus. If they go down too easy, increase their hit points and/or save bonuses. All of this can be done on the fly in the middle of an encounter too - just about the only thing you shouldn’t do is change the AC of a monster mid-fight, although you certainly can do that at the start. Prep a good encounter sheet, update it whenever you make adjustments just like you would to track damage taken or conditions that get applied, and you’ll be fine. In the words of Bruce Lee: be water. Flexibility is a huge asset for DMs.
Looks like the issue has been resolved, but you and I have a vast philosophical chasm between us. You believe the banhammer is an unwieldy tool, while I consider something that can be as targeted as a laser scalpel, or as widespread as a thermonuclear bomb. Targeting a specific species, or subclass, is using it as a precise instrument. When I ban almost an entire source book from my campaign, that is using it as nuclear bomb.
Banning a race because of one character in one campaign is not a scalpel, laser or otherwise. It's shooting a mosquito with a cannon.
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Update: The player decided on their own to change races so this is not an issue for me anymore. I am learning a lot from your suggestions however.
How OP is a Level 11 ranger satyr (Tasha's alternate features) with magical resistance in a high magic one-shot with a sorcerer as a BBEG? For various reasons having to do with feats taken, subclass and the composition of the party (Oath of Glory Paladin concentrating on buffs) chances are good that the player will always make their saving throws. Since they would still take half damage most of the time is that a particular problem?
I am play testing a one shot. I don't want to nerf the character or punish the player for the build. I'm not just not sure how to challenge them without the rest of the party getting beaten to a pulp. The rest of the player's build pretty much negates everything I have planned for in each encounter. The other players who created less optimized builds might not have much fun. It also might not be fun for the player because who wants to steamroll over everything? I also don't want to completely rewrite the one shot because of one player.
That's why I am asking more experienced and knowledgeable DMs for advice on creatures with effects that are not magical that I can use or other ways to occasionally (I want to stress that. I think everyone should have fun and it is up to the DM to figure out how to challenge part of the party without killing the other part) put the satyr in danger. I know I can throw minions with weapons at them but there is also the issue of a high AC possible made higher with buffs.
Thanks in advance. I'm sure this sounds like an easy to solve problem for most of you but I wouldn't be asking for advice if I thought it was. I have had occasions when I have asked for DM advice and other DMs have been unkind to say the least, which is why I have been hesitant to ask for advice here. I'm not asking for judgement, just help so all of my players can have a good time.
Yep, the +5 is also a problem :-) but they are all at Level 11 so I expect them to have huge resources to draw from. That's why I am play testing this at that level. I just didn't expect to have to deal with magical resistance on top of that. It freaked me out a bit. Then I started overthinking it. The intelligent enemies are also fey so they will know not to bother much with magical attacks and I think I can homebrew something that is like a dragon's breath which is not considered a magical affect. Thank you for reminding me about ability checks. I did not think about a warlock with Hex but that is a great idea. I can easily add something like that.
Great ideas. I am feeling better about this. Thanks.
If the BBEG is a sorcerer, give them a metamagic option to bypass magic resistance (or maybe better yet, to impose disadvantage on saves against their spells, which lets the magic resistance still actually do something).
Excellent idea! Heighten is an expensive metamagic but it does just that. Then the saving throw would just be a straight roll. Thanks!
The banhammer is such an unwieldy tool though, and is pretty much textbook nerfing the character and punishing the player. And if you ban this race, why not ban the paladin - that aura is a bigger deal than the satyr race - or anything else that makes your life as DM harder?
It’s water under the bridge now, but my suggestion would be to not prepare/write any part of the adventure until you might need it. You want the entire structure and outline, sure, but the details and specifics of most of the encounters can probably wait and if you do wait, you can create them with all you’ve learned from the game so far in mind. For now, I’d say add some generic martial minions and scale some of the magic back. Pick any published monster you like for this and jazz them up with some flavour, Bob’s your uncle. If AC is an issue, increase their attack bonus. If they go down too easy, increase their hit points and/or save bonuses. All of this can be done on the fly in the middle of an encounter too - just about the only thing you shouldn’t do is change the AC of a monster mid-fight, although you certainly can do that at the start. Prep a good encounter sheet, update it whenever you make adjustments just like you would to track damage taken or conditions that get applied, and you’ll be fine. In the words of Bruce Lee: be water. Flexibility is a huge asset for DMs.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The ranger is not proficient with either constitution or wisdom saving throws unless they picked up resilient or they are a gloomstalker who picks up wis saves.
The DC for your BBEG should be at least 17 ... more likely 18-21.
The ranger thus likely has a +2 on con and maybe a +3 on wis saves. If the DC is 19 then they would need to roll either 16 or 17 with advantage - this fails more than 1/2 the time.
So ... the issue is not the Magic Resistance (I've played a character with MR at level 11 and it really wasn't much of a problem for the DM). The problem is the +5 static bonus from the paladin and the likely bless spell also from the paladin. This adds a +7.5 average to the rangers saving throws which really increases the chance of making them - so that they will only fail about 25% of the time (both rolls below 8 or 9) ... which will happen but it isn't reliable.
In addition though, the paladin saves are helping everyone else within 10'.
However, I am guessing the ranger may not be within 10' of the paladin if they are a ranged attacker? In that case, the MR by itself is less effective than the straight +5 from a paladins saving throw bonus. It is only the combination of the +5 and MR that is making it more difficult to affect the ranger.
TLDR The real issue is the paladin and their buffs and bonus to saves rather than the MR on the ranger.
If you do not want to deal with it as a DM after giving it some considerable thought (which seems you have) it is completely fine to talk with the player and explain your hesitation and ask for a different race.
Do not feel like you have to accept everything and anything simply because it exists. Your fun as a DM is important too and if you feel it puts a burden on you its ok to say "no"
Thanks to everyone. The player on their own decided to change race. The paladin is an issue but he will mostly be in melee range with the squishier characters standing as far away possible. As I said, I saw magic resistance and freaked out. I wasn't familiar with satyrs before I got the character sheet. Once I really thought about it (thanks to advice here), I realized it might not be as much of an issue as I originally thought. I love all of your ideas and am grateful for the assistance.
David 42. The ranger did indeed pick up resilience. :-) and has a +4 to wisdom. It was built to be able to do both ranged and melee attacks - although melee isn't as strong. The dump stat was intelligence. Like I said it really was a good build. I admire the thought put into it. The magical resistance seemed like it would be a headache though. Good to know that it isn't actually much of a problem. When I did research it seemed the camp was divided and that it was more of a problem for DMs running casters than those running mostly martial BBEGs.
Banning a race because of one character in one campaign is not a scalpel, laser or otherwise. It's shooting a mosquito with a cannon.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].