I am running LMoP for the first time with a group of fairly new players. They are squishy and don't always make the best decisions, despite strong promptings from the DM.
"Do you want to kill the goblin or capture the goblin? He might have good information..." " I wanna kill it." "Are you sure?" "Yep."
Considering this, just wondering if I need to adjust when and where players find magic items, or if I need to augment what is in the game. Perhaps a little TPK will refocus their efforts? What have you done in your LMoP campaigns?
i ran the story as is, magic item placement and all, let the players make there decisions and let them deal with the consequences and once the wizard ran ahead of the group, into the bugbear room in cragmaw cave, lost the initiative roll against said bugbear and literally got one shotted AND killed out right, my players started to take a slower approach and ask more questions lol even tried to scout ahead more lol
i ran the story as is, magic item placement and all, let the players make there decisions and let them deal with the consequences and once the wizard ran ahead of the group, into the bugbear room in cragmaw cave, lost the initiative roll against said bugbear and literally got one shotted AND killed out right, my players started to take a slower approach and ask more questions lol even tried to scout ahead more lol
Considering this, just wondering if I need to adjust when and where players find magic items, or if I need to augment what is in the game. Perhaps a little TPK will refocus their efforts? What have you done in your LMoP campaigns?
Why a TPK is Bad: You say they are fairly new and, essentially, engaging in murder hobo behavior. Killing them all outright for their actions will send a message, but they are in a special time where the game is exciting and new and they want to push the big red button. Even if it's labeled "This Will End Poorly"
When to Give Augmented Magic:
When people are going to die. If they are running thin and don't know it, whatever the next encounter is, give them a consumable item or two to make the difference. Thanks to video games everyone expects a Potion of Healing to be common. Let it be common. Any time you think they are in trouble, give them items that give them the option to fix their mess. If they choose not to drink the healing potion... maybe one of them needs to start some Death Saves :)
I wouldn't suggest you to do this TKP. Only if they put them self in a bad situation, but not as a punishmente for them to not make "the best decisions".
The point of this adventure are that its a good start for new players and thats a lot becouse it let the players to act much freely and still in the trail. Let them make the decisions they want and have fun, the module have ways for you as DM to still make it work (unless they want to expend the rest of the advendure playing drinking games at a tavern).
Also, I don't think you need more magic items than those in the book (but you can if you want). What I would do is use tips if you want to enforce them to pick roles. like in the Cragmaw Cave you can say "this dungeon have some different ways to be played and your decisions matters here" thats enough, they're maybe will play the H&S session, but they will still have in mind that they could do otherwise and still accomplish something.
I mean, you can think ways to enfource them to pick the role you think is intresting, but don't take from them the power to choose how the stories goes. I think a TPK is too much punishment for newbies which seem's just testing the "freedom of choice" that RPGs promise them. Give them some time to feel the game, maybe penalize them when they didn't think outside of the box enought, but if you force a TPK just becouse they ignore one of the multiples options they had in that situation it will probablly ruin their fun (and yours as well).
I wouldn't suggest you to do this TKP. Only if they put them self in a bad situation, but not as a punishmente for them to not make "the best decisions".
100% understood, and not my intent. The original thought of moving where items are potentially placed in the adventure was to prevent a TPK.
The original thought of moving where items are potentially placed in the adventure was to prevent a TPK.
I think I got oyur point better now!
Well, I don't think that the encounters in the TMoP are too worrisome and if they face a TPK situation for making poor choices, well, so let them die.
I would not give them much more than what the book already sets, but if you think you need to do so you can prevent them to go upright theire graves, give them some magic itens in advance, like when accepting one quest on Phandelver maybe the NPC (if they create a good relation with) gives them one common or uncommon magic item in prep for the adventure. I think give it sooner is a bit of create big expectances for the rest of the campaing but if you wait till later than they would've already passed enough situations to have learnd to take care of themselves.
I also started a LMoP game this year. I gave them a magic item before Cragmaw Hideout (a set of tokens that casted Heroism when broken) because lvl 1 characters are squishy and they were only 3 players. It was almost a TPK anyways.
I would say give them one use magic items, see how that goes. Then start handing cool but not game breaking ones to add flavor and encourage them getting creative (like an extending rope or such) and the ones in the module. The point is twofold: to figure their style and what loot would make the game more enjoyable on one hand and to figure if any difficulty they have are learning pains or if they truly need a boost.
So yeah, my advice is to give them one use items early while they are still learning. Probably as encouragement for doing cool stuff. Also to make NPC more interesting: Widow Alderleaf might have something that Reidoth gave her as a gift, Daran something from his adventuring days, Stonehill something a previous guest gave them because they couldn't pay, etc.
I also started a LMoP game this year. I gave them a magic item before Cragmaw Hideout (a set of tokens that casted Heroism when broken) because lvl 1 characters are squishy and they were only 3 players. It was almost a TPK anyways.
In the current iteration I am running, it is for a group of 3, and I feared the TPK as well. I plan on linking LMoP into the essentials kit adventures as they all take place in Phandelver. The essentials kit has sidekicks, and so I gave them a spellcaster healer that I run as a DMPC. (Easier stat block, she basically just does what she's asked and has no viable offensive options). This far, it has worked well and prevented TPKs.
Giving out more items to cushion the blow from poor decision making might turn into an expectation for you to continue to keep the kid gloves on. This feels a lot like enabling them to continue their current approach to the game. I'm not advocating for a TPK as a teaching moment either. The sidekick addition is a good start, but I'm not sure if I agree with the DM controlling a player asset.
I might suggest customizing the encounter difficulty to something that might be more manageable to your less-than-optimal party. As written, the adventure is advertised for 4 - 5 Characters. Also consider that poor decisions are frequently made because of a lack of accurate information or poorly managed expectations. Both of which can be countered without combat involving the PCs themselves. Letting the PCs witness the easy defeat of someone of comparable ability to them is a good way of showing them what will happen, without directly involving them in the event. Remains of the same battle can be narrated to provide the same effect.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Letting the PCs witness the easy defeat of someone of comparable ability to them is a good way of showing them what will happen, without directly involving them in the event. Remains of the same battle can be narrated to provide the same effect.
This is an interesting approach i had not considered. Thanks for the insight.
The easiest way to reduce the odds of a TPK is not magic items. Advance the characters to level 2 as soon as possible. After the first session or possibly the second, no longer than that. Two levels makes a big difference, additional hit points, some additional abilities, whereas a +1 magical sword or the other items available in LMOP are unlikely to make nearly as large a difference. Third level will make things even easier since it will be harder to accidentally one shot characters with a crit. Third level is also often enough for a character to live through making a mistake but have significant enough consequences that they would like to avoid doing it again.
So rather than magic items - I would vote for levels :)
The easiest way to reduce the odds of a TPK is not magic items. Advance the characters to level 2 as soon as possible. After the first session or possibly the second, no longer than that. Two levels makes a big difference, additional hit points, some additional abilities, whereas a +1 magical sword or the other items available in LMOP are unlikely to make nearly as large a difference. Third level will make things even easier since it will be harder to accidentally one shot characters with a crit. Third level is also often enough for a character to live through making a mistake but have significant enough consequences that they would like to avoid doing it again.
So rather than magic items - I would vote for levels :)
I completely agree, levels make things not squishy. And LMoP as written, doesn't kill any players, it knocks them unconscious and captures them. As stated, the main antagonist wants to capture them, not kill them.
When people are going to die. If they are running thin and don't know it, whatever the next encounter is, give them a consumable item or two to make the difference. Thanks to video games everyone expects a Potion of Healing to be common. Let it be common. Any time you think they are in trouble, give them items that give them the option to fix their mess. If they choose not to drink the healing potion... maybe one of them needs to start some Death Saves :)
It's true, everyone expects a potion of healing in the video game world we live in. This was the item I was considering most. I was originally going to give each party member one to start the adventure before I opted for the healer sidekick. Still seems like something that could be found by rummaging through something. Thanks for the feedback.
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~ May all your rolls Crit ~
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I am running LMoP for the first time with a group of fairly new players. They are squishy and don't always make the best decisions, despite strong promptings from the DM.
"Do you want to kill the goblin or capture the goblin? He might have good information..." " I wanna kill it." "Are you sure?" "Yep."
Considering this, just wondering if I need to adjust when and where players find magic items, or if I need to augment what is in the game. Perhaps a little TPK will refocus their efforts? What have you done in your LMoP campaigns?
~ May all your rolls Crit ~
i ran the story as is, magic item placement and all, let the players make there decisions and let them deal with the consequences and once the wizard ran ahead of the group, into the bugbear room in cragmaw cave, lost the initiative roll against said bugbear and literally got one shotted AND killed out right, my players started to take a slower approach and ask more questions lol even tried to scout ahead more lol
So, the TPK method. Noted. Haha.
~ May all your rolls Crit ~
i mean if your giving strong promptings and they STILL wipe wellll thats one them at that point lol
Why a TPK is Bad: You say they are fairly new and, essentially, engaging in murder hobo behavior. Killing them all outright for their actions will send a message, but they are in a special time where the game is exciting and new and they want to push the big red button. Even if it's labeled "This Will End Poorly"
When to Give Augmented Magic:
When people are going to die. If they are running thin and don't know it, whatever the next encounter is, give them a consumable item or two to make the difference. Thanks to video games everyone expects a Potion of Healing to be common. Let it be common. Any time you think they are in trouble, give them items that give them the option to fix their mess. If they choose not to drink the healing potion... maybe one of them needs to start some Death Saves :)
I wouldn't suggest you to do this TKP. Only if they put them self in a bad situation, but not as a punishmente for them to not make "the best decisions".
The point of this adventure are that its a good start for new players and thats a lot becouse it let the players to act much freely and still in the trail. Let them make the decisions they want and have fun, the module have ways for you as DM to still make it work (unless they want to expend the rest of the advendure playing drinking games at a tavern).
Also, I don't think you need more magic items than those in the book (but you can if you want). What I would do is use tips if you want to enforce them to pick roles. like in the Cragmaw Cave you can say "this dungeon have some different ways to be played and your decisions matters here" thats enough, they're maybe will play the H&S session, but they will still have in mind that they could do otherwise and still accomplish something.
I mean, you can think ways to enfource them to pick the role you think is intresting, but don't take from them the power to choose how the stories goes. I think a TPK is too much punishment for newbies which seem's just testing the "freedom of choice" that RPGs promise them. Give them some time to feel the game, maybe penalize them when they didn't think outside of the box enought, but if you force a TPK just becouse they ignore one of the multiples options they had in that situation it will probablly ruin their fun (and yours as well).
100% understood, and not my intent. The original thought of moving where items are potentially placed in the adventure was to prevent a TPK.
Thanks for your insight.
~ May all your rolls Crit ~
I think I got oyur point better now!
Well, I don't think that the encounters in the TMoP are too worrisome and if they face a TPK situation for making poor choices, well, so let them die.
I would not give them much more than what the book already sets, but if you think you need to do so you can prevent them to go upright theire graves, give them some magic itens in advance, like when accepting one quest on Phandelver maybe the NPC (if they create a good relation with) gives them one common or uncommon magic item in prep for the adventure. I think give it sooner is a bit of create big expectances for the rest of the campaing but if you wait till later than they would've already passed enough situations to have learnd to take care of themselves.
I also started a LMoP game this year. I gave them a magic item before Cragmaw Hideout (a set of tokens that casted Heroism when broken) because lvl 1 characters are squishy and they were only 3 players. It was almost a TPK anyways.
I would say give them one use magic items, see how that goes. Then start handing cool but not game breaking ones to add flavor and encourage them getting creative (like an extending rope or such) and the ones in the module. The point is twofold: to figure their style and what loot would make the game more enjoyable on one hand and to figure if any difficulty they have are learning pains or if they truly need a boost.
So yeah, my advice is to give them one use items early while they are still learning. Probably as encouragement for doing cool stuff. Also to make NPC more interesting: Widow Alderleaf might have something that Reidoth gave her as a gift, Daran something from his adventuring days, Stonehill something a previous guest gave them because they couldn't pay, etc.
In the current iteration I am running, it is for a group of 3, and I feared the TPK as well. I plan on linking LMoP into the essentials kit adventures as they all take place in Phandelver. The essentials kit has sidekicks, and so I gave them a spellcaster healer that I run as a DMPC. (Easier stat block, she basically just does what she's asked and has no viable offensive options). This far, it has worked well and prevented TPKs.
~ May all your rolls Crit ~
Giving out more items to cushion the blow from poor decision making might turn into an expectation for you to continue to keep the kid gloves on. This feels a lot like enabling them to continue their current approach to the game. I'm not advocating for a TPK as a teaching moment either. The sidekick addition is a good start, but I'm not sure if I agree with the DM controlling a player asset.
I might suggest customizing the encounter difficulty to something that might be more manageable to your less-than-optimal party. As written, the adventure is advertised for 4 - 5 Characters. Also consider that poor decisions are frequently made because of a lack of accurate information or poorly managed expectations. Both of which can be countered without combat involving the PCs themselves. Letting the PCs witness the easy defeat of someone of comparable ability to them is a good way of showing them what will happen, without directly involving them in the event. Remains of the same battle can be narrated to provide the same effect.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
This is an interesting approach i had not considered. Thanks for the insight.
~ May all your rolls Crit ~
The easiest way to reduce the odds of a TPK is not magic items. Advance the characters to level 2 as soon as possible. After the first session or possibly the second, no longer than that. Two levels makes a big difference, additional hit points, some additional abilities, whereas a +1 magical sword or the other items available in LMOP are unlikely to make nearly as large a difference. Third level will make things even easier since it will be harder to accidentally one shot characters with a crit. Third level is also often enough for a character to live through making a mistake but have significant enough consequences that they would like to avoid doing it again.
So rather than magic items - I would vote for levels :)
I completely agree, levels make things not squishy. And LMoP as written, doesn't kill any players, it knocks them unconscious and captures them. As stated, the main antagonist wants to capture them, not kill them.
~ May all your rolls Crit ~
It's true, everyone expects a potion of healing in the video game world we live in. This was the item I was considering most. I was originally going to give each party member one to start the adventure before I opted for the healer sidekick. Still seems like something that could be found by rummaging through something. Thanks for the feedback.
~ May all your rolls Crit ~