Okay, bit of context. I am currently running a sort of mega-campaign, to run from levels 1 to 20, divided in 4 campaigns, 1-5, 5-10, 10-15, 15-20.
To make sure we'll get to the end, it's more of a thematic world event and less a player-oriented thing, this way PCs can change in between campaigns without too much trouble.
For the first tier, I am running LMOP/DIP together, and it's running smoothly as of current.
For the second tier, I plan to give many adventure hooks, and see what the players pick up on, then choose. It will probably end up being Saltmarsh or Strahd, knowing the players, but who knows. Could be pretty much any module, and I'll introduce themes of the third tier as a setup.
For the last tier, I'll go homebrew, depending on whatever happens on the third tier.
You get where I'm going! For that third tier, two options seem to stand out for me, Out of the Abyss, or Tyranny of Dragons. Of course, since they'll be starting at level 10, I'll tweak a few things, but the core theme would stay the same.
So, which theme/book is the best to choose for this situation? Honestly in my world, both the threat of dragons or demons could work brilliantly with the right setup, and I love both types of monsters, so I could really use some external advice to choose.
Your big choice is whether you want to devote this arc of your campaign to the Underdark or have it take place on the surface world. Out of the Abyss if I remember correctly takes place entirely in the Underdark and Tyranny of Dragons tours the Sword Coast, with some opportunities to head eastward.
If you do Tyranny of Dragons, you'd probably have more ease porting it to level 10 party if you skip the Hoard of the Dragon Queen half and just have them start off with the Council of Waterdeep that begins Rise of Tiamat. There's a final encounter in HODQ you could probably buff that could serve as a first mission on behalf of the Council, and could definitely be buffed up using some of the Fizban's rules (like really buff if you start swapping kobolds for Draconians).
Actually, thinking it over, You could probably do Tyranny of Dragons as campaign starting at levels 4-5 if you swapped out draconians for kobolds. Haven't done the CR math, but my take on Tyranny of Dragons is basically it's basically Dragonlance in Faerun with an even less competent dragon cult (doesn't make it a bad adventure, just the antagonist faction has a lot of tensions and flawed personalities, of course so don't the "good guys" so that sort of evens out).
I'm in the middle of DM'ing my friends through Hoard of the Dragon Queen after they've already played Lost Mines of Phandelver, and despite homebrewing it has been a bit of a struggle to challenge them. A lot of the plot and gameplay kind of assumes that you're playing a group of new adventurers who aren't well known... there's a lot of times in the game where the characters are in extended espionage sessions where being famous heroes would make it a stretch.
That said, I think MidnightPlat has a good point that the second half, Rise of Tiamat, is much easier to jump into. It's partially designed so that it can be played without actually needing Hoard of the Dragon Queen... it just gives some extra context and the opportunity to meet some NPCs ahead of time. It's also got some nice elements you can customize to match your players' actions... for example, you could replace the individual characters from the Council of Waterdeep with characters your players have already met to give more of a sense of a cohesive world.
Out of the Abyss really only works in the form it is if started for a level 1 group I have now run it 3 times and can say that you lose alot of the campaign by dropping in at high levels or part way through.
The whole point of the campaign is that for the first half the characters are simply trying to survive situations that they can't fight. Having level 3/4 players come across Demagorgan as he attacks a town for example. There is also a strong survival element predicated on the fact that the characters start off locked in a prison with no equipment and at just level 1. The 3 times I have run it the party have only recovered there equipment once, the other 2 times they went into the underdark with nothing and so had to find, salvage, or make things. They then face off against the demon princes and other high level threats, earning small victories but largely just trying to get out. They then return with an army at a higher level and get the chance to take on the threats they had to run away from defeating each one.
If you simply drop them in high level to the clear out the underdark stage then yes it makes for a high level dungeon crawl, but the players won't have any of the sense of loss, or upset at seeing the impact the demon incursion has had on those that helped them. They won't feel a sense of achievement at defeating something they previously had to run away from and large parts of it will just seem odd to them having not been able to explore previously.
So my advice stay away from out of the abyss unless your going to run it from low levels.
Thanks for all your answers! It really gives good perspective on both, and I think I'll go with the dragons, in that case, possibly dropping a good chunk from HotDQ, as to have it adapt better.
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Okay, bit of context. I am currently running a sort of mega-campaign, to run from levels 1 to 20, divided in 4 campaigns, 1-5, 5-10, 10-15, 15-20.
To make sure we'll get to the end, it's more of a thematic world event and less a player-oriented thing, this way PCs can change in between campaigns without too much trouble.
For the first tier, I am running LMOP/DIP together, and it's running smoothly as of current.
For the second tier, I plan to give many adventure hooks, and see what the players pick up on, then choose. It will probably end up being Saltmarsh or Strahd, knowing the players, but who knows. Could be pretty much any module, and I'll introduce themes of the third tier as a setup.
For the last tier, I'll go homebrew, depending on whatever happens on the third tier.
You get where I'm going! For that third tier, two options seem to stand out for me, Out of the Abyss, or Tyranny of Dragons. Of course, since they'll be starting at level 10, I'll tweak a few things, but the core theme would stay the same.
So, which theme/book is the best to choose for this situation? Honestly in my world, both the threat of dragons or demons could work brilliantly with the right setup, and I love both types of monsters, so I could really use some external advice to choose.
Your big choice is whether you want to devote this arc of your campaign to the Underdark or have it take place on the surface world. Out of the Abyss if I remember correctly takes place entirely in the Underdark and Tyranny of Dragons tours the Sword Coast, with some opportunities to head eastward.
If you do Tyranny of Dragons, you'd probably have more ease porting it to level 10 party if you skip the Hoard of the Dragon Queen half and just have them start off with the Council of Waterdeep that begins Rise of Tiamat. There's a final encounter in HODQ you could probably buff that could serve as a first mission on behalf of the Council, and could definitely be buffed up using some of the Fizban's rules (like really buff if you start swapping kobolds for Draconians).
Actually, thinking it over, You could probably do Tyranny of Dragons as campaign starting at levels 4-5 if you swapped out draconians for kobolds. Haven't done the CR math, but my take on Tyranny of Dragons is basically it's basically Dragonlance in Faerun with an even less competent dragon cult (doesn't make it a bad adventure, just the antagonist faction has a lot of tensions and flawed personalities, of course so don't the "good guys" so that sort of evens out).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I'm in the middle of DM'ing my friends through Hoard of the Dragon Queen after they've already played Lost Mines of Phandelver, and despite homebrewing it has been a bit of a struggle to challenge them. A lot of the plot and gameplay kind of assumes that you're playing a group of new adventurers who aren't well known... there's a lot of times in the game where the characters are in extended espionage sessions where being famous heroes would make it a stretch.
That said, I think MidnightPlat has a good point that the second half, Rise of Tiamat, is much easier to jump into. It's partially designed so that it can be played without actually needing Hoard of the Dragon Queen... it just gives some extra context and the opportunity to meet some NPCs ahead of time. It's also got some nice elements you can customize to match your players' actions... for example, you could replace the individual characters from the Council of Waterdeep with characters your players have already met to give more of a sense of a cohesive world.
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Out of the Abyss really only works in the form it is if started for a level 1 group I have now run it 3 times and can say that you lose alot of the campaign by dropping in at high levels or part way through.
The whole point of the campaign is that for the first half the characters are simply trying to survive situations that they can't fight. Having level 3/4 players come across Demagorgan as he attacks a town for example. There is also a strong survival element predicated on the fact that the characters start off locked in a prison with no equipment and at just level 1. The 3 times I have run it the party have only recovered there equipment once, the other 2 times they went into the underdark with nothing and so had to find, salvage, or make things. They then face off against the demon princes and other high level threats, earning small victories but largely just trying to get out. They then return with an army at a higher level and get the chance to take on the threats they had to run away from defeating each one.
If you simply drop them in high level to the clear out the underdark stage then yes it makes for a high level dungeon crawl, but the players won't have any of the sense of loss, or upset at seeing the impact the demon incursion has had on those that helped them. They won't feel a sense of achievement at defeating something they previously had to run away from and large parts of it will just seem odd to them having not been able to explore previously.
So my advice stay away from out of the abyss unless your going to run it from low levels.
Thanks for all your answers! It really gives good perspective on both, and I think I'll go with the dragons, in that case, possibly dropping a good chunk from HotDQ, as to have it adapt better.