My players have gotten into a pickle. I only have one idea to get them out, can you think of better?
Scenario:
The party was on the 3rd level of the dungeon, 4 characters, all level 7. They found Skullport and thought it was boring (it is) so spent no time there and went to level 6. Almost died, went back to Skullport and decided to invade Skull Island without asking ANY questions, doing any recon, or any prep.
They invaded in the middle of the night, opened the first door they found and fireballed a dozen sleeping druegar. This awoke the other 120+ inhabitants of the fort. Despite giving them several rounds of warnings that they could hear scores of boots and shouts headed their way they all went into that one-exit room, trying to hunting down a couple invisible duregar that lived through the fireball. Now they are surrounded completely. They even left the main gate closed so if they do get out of the room, there's little hope for them.
We ended the last session there, mid combat. I am not going to run 120+ enemies in combat this week, nor do I wish to end the adventure with a TPK.
My Idea:
Have Xanathar be there (he was meeting with the Ft Commander), have the beholder disintegrate a hole in the roof, put them in anti-magic field, tell his troops to "take them alive" and describe them all being beaten unconscious. Xanathar's presence is to make sure the players believe they have no chance so they accept this. (Even without him, they stand no chance to survive at this point, they are just too cocky to understand it.)
They will awake in the Yawning Portal with all their equipment, but all of their money gone (they are gonna hate that but how can I justify Xanathar NOT taking their gold???). Obaya Uday will explain she negotiated for their lives. Xanathar will let them live if they kill the hobgoblin leaders on level 3, and will kill them if they go back to Skullport or lower than level 4 before they get the job done. Later, I'll give them an opportunity to get their treasure back.
I don't feel this is a great solution but they are in way too far over their heads - I didn't have Skull Island down well enough when they went in because its a big module and they have been all over the place lately, or I'd have put some guards on the main gate...but that was not in the module and I didn't see this coming so it didn't happen.
Quiet frankly, they deserve to be TPKed, something I do not say lightly--they put themselves in a situation that obviously was going to get them killed, counting on you as the DM to save them. That said, if I were in your shoes, I would probably also find some way to save them--killing an entire party puts a pretty big damper on the campaign.
My issue with your suggestion: It feels a little Xanathar ex machina - it is a bit of a disjointed out that relies on your party suspending disbelief to a number of coincidences that all seem solely designed just to save them. Sure, it is feasible that Xanathar is present and feasible that he might want to capture you alive and feasible that he might disintegrate part of his own fortress, etc., it still will seem like he is just there to save your party.
Instead, I do not think it is necessary--the denizens of Skull Island are perfectly capable of wanting to see you captured alive. Your party managed to make the journey, get into their fortress, and kill a number of people--your party is sufficiently a threat that it would be more wise to interrogate them and see if they are acting alone (which likely would not be believed) or if your party is a threat to the organization as a whole.
You could have the party captured and brought to the depths of Skull Island. Perhaps have some scenes where they are tortured for information.
To help them escape, you could have some behind-the-scenes politics going on and a power struggle within Skull Island. Perhaps a subordinate wants to make a play to take over Skull Island--but they do not trust any of the other inhabitants to form a conspiracy without a betrayal. So they free your group and ask your group to sneak around and kill a leader to create a power vacuum where this subordinate can rise to power.
Or you could have your party be freed by a third-party who buys their freedom in exchange for some sort of favor.
Or the gang of Skull Island can be fairly pragmatic about the deaths and, if they determine through their interrogation the party is not a threat, send the party on missions until the wergild for the dead is paid off.
Or the party could just break out on their own and find a way to escape the fortress (or, if they do something dumb, then maybe kill one of them off for real and let the others escape--at that point it's clear your players need a lesson).
Plenty of ways to get the same effect without needing Xanathar's involvement.
Nope. Not a single one. I'm a DM. I'm a huge fan of player agency and letting the players decide how they want to handle the challenges that I present them. Sounds like you were too, until, in your estimation, it got past the point of no return.
My vote is to run the encounter as it is. Don't pull any punches that you've already telegraphed. If you've heavily implied out said that there were scores of boots clomping towards them, then those boots better be filled with scores of feet attached to scores of majorly-pissed duergar. Otherwise, it might be pretty obvious that the DM cotton balled the party and let them off with a warning. If your players woke up and chose combat as the preferred method of conflict resoulution, I would suggest that you remind them that diplomacy is the, as yet to be attempted, other option.
They got themselves into it. Create a break in combat and give them an opportunity to think about solutions. You can control the time in game. They have the rest of their PC's lives to figure this out. Literally. If they come up with some cockamaimey plan that only makes partial sense, give it an opportunity to work.
Solving the problems that you put infront of your players is in the same vein as saying that they gave you the wrong answer. If you design an encounter, puzzle, room, whatever, and it only has one solution, there is no place for player agency. There is no place for player choice.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I should make an addendum to my above--that suggestion is only applicable if they do, in fact, get TPKed--just clarify that the enemies are hitting with the intent to knock unconscious, not fatally wound. I would start by running the encounter as normal--give them the opportunity to beg for their lives (in which case they would be captured, tortured, and all the other things I said apply) or possibly coming up with some other solution, like blasting a hole in the enemies (or maybe in the wall) and trying to flee. Give your players a chance to come up with their own zany way of solving the problems, but still have an out prepared in the chance they do, in fact, TPK.
I mean, there's an argument for just TPKing them, sometimes people need to learn stupid has consequences, but there's the alternative of capturing them, taking all their stuff, and using them as star entertainment in an arena battle.
Play it out, let them die if that’s what the dice gods decide. When they make new characters and come back down have them find their old characters for sale in the zombie shop.
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My players have gotten into a pickle. I only have one idea to get them out, can you think of better?
Scenario:
The party was on the 3rd level of the dungeon, 4 characters, all level 7. They found Skullport and thought it was boring (it is) so spent no time there and went to level 6. Almost died, went back to Skullport and decided to invade Skull Island without asking ANY questions, doing any recon, or any prep.
They invaded in the middle of the night, opened the first door they found and fireballed a dozen sleeping druegar. This awoke the other 120+ inhabitants of the fort. Despite giving them several rounds of warnings that they could hear scores of boots and shouts headed their way they all went into that one-exit room, trying to hunting down a couple invisible duregar that lived through the fireball. Now they are surrounded completely. They even left the main gate closed so if they do get out of the room, there's little hope for them.
We ended the last session there, mid combat. I am not going to run 120+ enemies in combat this week, nor do I wish to end the adventure with a TPK.
My Idea:
Have Xanathar be there (he was meeting with the Ft Commander), have the beholder disintegrate a hole in the roof, put them in anti-magic field, tell his troops to "take them alive" and describe them all being beaten unconscious. Xanathar's presence is to make sure the players believe they have no chance so they accept this. (Even without him, they stand no chance to survive at this point, they are just too cocky to understand it.)
They will awake in the Yawning Portal with all their equipment, but all of their money gone (they are gonna hate that but how can I justify Xanathar NOT taking their gold???). Obaya Uday will explain she negotiated for their lives. Xanathar will let them live if they kill the hobgoblin leaders on level 3, and will kill them if they go back to Skullport or lower than level 4 before they get the job done. Later, I'll give them an opportunity to get their treasure back.
I don't feel this is a great solution but they are in way too far over their heads - I didn't have Skull Island down well enough when they went in because its a big module and they have been all over the place lately, or I'd have put some guards on the main gate...but that was not in the module and I didn't see this coming so it didn't happen.
Any better ideas to keep them alive?
Quiet frankly, they deserve to be TPKed, something I do not say lightly--they put themselves in a situation that obviously was going to get them killed, counting on you as the DM to save them. That said, if I were in your shoes, I would probably also find some way to save them--killing an entire party puts a pretty big damper on the campaign.
My issue with your suggestion: It feels a little Xanathar ex machina - it is a bit of a disjointed out that relies on your party suspending disbelief to a number of coincidences that all seem solely designed just to save them. Sure, it is feasible that Xanathar is present and feasible that he might want to capture you alive and feasible that he might disintegrate part of his own fortress, etc., it still will seem like he is just there to save your party.
Instead, I do not think it is necessary--the denizens of Skull Island are perfectly capable of wanting to see you captured alive. Your party managed to make the journey, get into their fortress, and kill a number of people--your party is sufficiently a threat that it would be more wise to interrogate them and see if they are acting alone (which likely would not be believed) or if your party is a threat to the organization as a whole.
You could have the party captured and brought to the depths of Skull Island. Perhaps have some scenes where they are tortured for information.
To help them escape, you could have some behind-the-scenes politics going on and a power struggle within Skull Island. Perhaps a subordinate wants to make a play to take over Skull Island--but they do not trust any of the other inhabitants to form a conspiracy without a betrayal. So they free your group and ask your group to sneak around and kill a leader to create a power vacuum where this subordinate can rise to power.
Or you could have your party be freed by a third-party who buys their freedom in exchange for some sort of favor.
Or the gang of Skull Island can be fairly pragmatic about the deaths and, if they determine through their interrogation the party is not a threat, send the party on missions until the wergild for the dead is paid off.
Or the party could just break out on their own and find a way to escape the fortress (or, if they do something dumb, then maybe kill one of them off for real and let the others escape--at that point it's clear your players need a lesson).
Plenty of ways to get the same effect without needing Xanathar's involvement.
Nope. Not a single one. I'm a DM. I'm a huge fan of player agency and letting the players decide how they want to handle the challenges that I present them. Sounds like you were too, until, in your estimation, it got past the point of no return.
My vote is to run the encounter as it is. Don't pull any punches that you've already telegraphed. If you've heavily implied out said that there were scores of boots clomping towards them, then those boots better be filled with scores of feet attached to scores of majorly-pissed duergar. Otherwise, it might be pretty obvious that the DM cotton balled the party and let them off with a warning. If your players woke up and chose combat as the preferred method of conflict resoulution, I would suggest that you remind them that diplomacy is the, as yet to be attempted, other option.
They got themselves into it. Create a break in combat and give them an opportunity to think about solutions. You can control the time in game. They have the rest of their PC's lives to figure this out. Literally. If they come up with some cockamaimey plan that only makes partial sense, give it an opportunity to work.
Solving the problems that you put infront of your players is in the same vein as saying that they gave you the wrong answer. If you design an encounter, puzzle, room, whatever, and it only has one solution, there is no place for player agency. There is no place for player choice.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I should make an addendum to my above--that suggestion is only applicable if they do, in fact, get TPKed--just clarify that the enemies are hitting with the intent to knock unconscious, not fatally wound. I would start by running the encounter as normal--give them the opportunity to beg for their lives (in which case they would be captured, tortured, and all the other things I said apply) or possibly coming up with some other solution, like blasting a hole in the enemies (or maybe in the wall) and trying to flee. Give your players a chance to come up with their own zany way of solving the problems, but still have an out prepared in the chance they do, in fact, TPK.
I mean, there's an argument for just TPKing them, sometimes people need to learn stupid has consequences, but there's the alternative of capturing them, taking all their stuff, and using them as star entertainment in an arena battle.
Play it out, let them die if that’s what the dice gods decide. When they make new characters and come back down have them find their old characters for sale in the zombie shop.