So I'm writing and running a 5e campaign that will all take place within a large city in the 80's . Guns will be present but not at low levels and even high level players would need to be rich or lucky to get one. I'm currently stumped on what sort of "mundane" weapons to add and looking for answers online has lead to "Baton and Knife" followed by every conceivable type of gun. So what are some good ideas for modern weapons that aren't militarized?
So I'm writing and running a 5e campaign that will all take place within a large city in the 80's . Guns will be present but not at low levels and even high level players would need to be rich or lucky to get one. I'm currently stumped on what sort of "mundane" weapons to add and looking for answers online has lead to "Baton and Knife" followed by every conceivable type of gun. So what are some good ideas for modern weapons that aren't militarized?
So this city is not in the U.S., I mean Lynyrd Skynyrd put out "Mr. Saturday Night Special" in '75. Guns are relatively cheap, especially the type used in crime.
Anyway, I think besides guns, knives, machetes, axes, batons ... almost everything else is going to fall under the "improvised weapon" category, which doesn't get a lot of flash in 5e. But if you want a catalogue of implements that all perform relatively the same mechanically speaking, I'd just brainstorm off in game effects. Make three lists: bludgeon (baseball bats to ash trays and bowling balls), pierce (ice picks and stakes), slashing (axes, machetes, I guess chainsaws?). Then go to a hardware store and add things to these columns as you walk the aisles. I'm half-facetious but outside of weapons made to hurt people, almost anything can be improvised into a weapon (D&D doesn't really have great strangulation rules, but if it did your list would be even more well rounded, and you'd have a place for swimming pools on it too).
At a comic store I used to hang out, conversation would occasionally drift into "weapon of choice" type discussions. One guy always insisted his preferred melee weapon would be a Volvo. Guy's got a point, blunt damage, but a point.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
So this city is not in the U.S., I mean Lynyrd Skynyrd put out "Mr. Saturday Night Special" in '75. Guns are relatively cheap, especially the type used in crime.
Honestly, even outside the US hunting weapons are typically not overly hard to find nor overly expensive. And there are legitimate professions that can provide access to firearms other than being part of the military, and gun clubs/ranges exist in many countries too even if usually with more stringent restrictions on possession than the US. I expect extra limitations will be in order (no hunters, LEOs and so on).
On topic: there are tons of things, from the somewhat innocuous repurposed sports (bats) or kitchen (knives) gear over slightly more suspicious tools (axes, crowbars, hammers) and actually-really-a-weapon-except-meant-for-hobby-purposes (bows and martial arts gear) to pretty-much-just-weapons (combat knives, brass knuckles, batons), not to mention improvised or scratch-built stuff (broken bottles, shivs, garrottes from piano wire, a couple of soda cans in a pillow case, molotov cocktails, pressurized cans of flammable gas). There's also poisons, although delivery systems for those would likely be circumstantial, and even in the no internet '80s explosives wouldn't necessarily be impossible to craft or steal.
So this city is not in the U.S., I mean Lynyrd Skynyrd put out "Mr. Saturday Night Special" in '75. Guns are relatively cheap, especially the type used in crime.
Honestly, even outside the US hunting weapons are typically not overly hard to find nor overly expensive. And there are legitimate professions that can provide access to firearms other than being part of the military, and gun clubs/ranges exist in many countries too even if usually with more stringent restrictions on possession than the US. I expect extra limitations will be in order (no hunters, LEOs and so on).
On topic: there are tons of things, from the somewhat innocuous repurposed sports (bats) or kitchen (knives) gear over slightly more suspicious tools (axes, crowbars, hammers) and actually-really-a-weapon-except-meant-for-hobby-purposes (bows and martial arts gear) to pretty-much-just-weapons (combat knives, brass knuckles, batons), not to mention improvised or scratch-built stuff (broken bottles, shivs, garrottes from piano wire, a couple of soda cans in a pillow case, molotov cocktails, pressurized cans of flammable gas). There's also poisons, although delivery systems for those would likely be circumstantial, and even in the no internet '80s explosives wouldn't necessarily be impossible to craft or steal.
Actually, I've been told by elders who were hellions back in the day that it was much easier to construct gunpowder and pipe bombs and the like in the U.S. in the 50s and 60s as the materials were more readily availably at pharmacies and folks didn't really bat an eye at the purchases. As far as methodology, even pre Anarchist Cookbook style zines and manuals that circulated through underground and faux-underground presses, there were these places called libraries, with a lower signal to noise ratio on the actual utility and efficacy of techniques.
But yeah, explosives and incendiaries would be a thing. ON top of "poison", mace and chemical irritants designed to be used as weapons as well as improvised stuff like bleach and acids.
I'm pretty sure Boy Scouts manuals had info on snares, may still today. Add to that bear traps and other forms of booby traps from staked pits to the Home Alone movies.
Again though, D&D paints all this stuff with broader brushes than it does with more "militant" combat (and it still does that in broad strokes too), so I see a lot of diverse skins but not necessarily a broad range of differing effects, which is the same complain some critics of D&D pose to the game anyway so I guess nothing wrong there.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Baseball/cricket bats can use greatclub stats as they're intended for two handed swings and are balanced and weighted specifically for such. Smaller bats, such as ones made for use by children, could count as a regular club in the hands of an adult. I would say a crowbar is heavy enough to count as a mace for rules purposes. A hunting/survival knife or even a large kitchen knife (such as a chef's knife) is functionally a dagger, though you might remove the thrown quality as those blades are not typically balanced for throwing. Machetes are basically short swords, though you might have them deal slashing damage rather than piercing as they are not really intended for stabbing. A hatchet is literally a hand axe, we just don't call it a "hand axe" as much nowadays. Axes made for camping, woodcutting, and firefighting range between battleaxes (usable with one hand) and greataxes (bigger and heavier ones intended for chopping down large trees or quickly clearing large obstacles like doors or collapsed structural beams). A sledgehammer is a maul, a typical "craftsman's" hammer readily available at any hardware store (claw, ball-peen, or a variety of small mallets) should count as a light hammer on the weapons table and there are various heavier mallets and lighter, short handled sledgehammers could be ruled as warhammers.
even in the no internet '80s explosives wouldn't necessarily be impossible to craft or steal.
Make a DC 15 Survival check to try and make something from the Anarchist Cookbook. If you fail the check by more than 5 points, it blows up in your face.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Honestly, at that point it's mostly a flavor thing. I would recommend just letting players choose what item they want to wield as a weapon then just figure out what statted weapon it most closely resembles. Someone wants to fight with a rake? Sure, that's a Trident. Brass Knuckles? That's a club. Shovel? Sounds like a Battleaxe to me.
The only difference is if you intend there to be actual, proper weapons that are difficult to acquire. Like... if there's somewhere the players could conceivably go to get a real-ass scimitar, then don't let any mundane objects get stats better than a simple weapon.
Honestly, at that point it's mostly a flavor thing. I would recommend just letting players choose what item they want to wield as a weapon then just figure out what statted weapon it most closely resembles. Someone wants to fight with a rake? Sure, that's a Trident. Brass Knuckles? That's a club. Shovel? Sounds like a Battleaxe to me.
The only difference is if you intend there to be actual, proper weapons that are difficult to acquire. Like... if there's somewhere the players could conceivably go to get a real-ass scimitar, then don't let any mundane objects get stats better than a simple weapon.
A rake as a reliable weapon at all is pushing the limits of reason (assuming a heavy duty farming/gardening rake and not a flimsy yard rake), and even then it most certainly should neither be wieldable one handed (not effectively at least so no proficiency bonus) and absolutely should not have the thrown property. Brass knuckles as a club does make sense, and a shovel is again not suited to wielding one handed in addition to not being suited to maximizing cutting damage (even if you sharpen it) nor heavy enough to call it a maul. I'd rule a shovel as a greatclub, maybe a spear if it is somehow effectively sharpened to a point. And a machete purchasable in most hardware stores (at least in the US, not sure about other countries) for the purpose of cutting branches and clearing underbrush and is basically a short sword made for slashing so there's your "real-ass scimitar" (there are plenty of historical and modern examples of machetes being extremely well suited to use as deadly weapons, not just in corny horror movies).
I was thinking more on the grounds of "rule of fun" for the purpose of reflavoring, as opposed to limiting options based on actual like... logic. Mostly my intent was to give suggestions on how to give players weapons that are mechanically as useful as proper weaponry while still limiting them to mundane modern-day items.
I do agree that Machetes are probably the best "weapon" that you can easily justify having the stats of a proper sword that a modern day character can easily acquire without having to hit up like... a ren-faire or something.
I was thinking more on the grounds of "rule of fun" for the purpose of reflavoring, as opposed to limiting options based on actual like... logic. Mostly my intent was to give suggestions on how to give players weapons that are mechanically as useful as proper weaponry while still limiting them to mundane modern-day items.
I do agree that Machetes are probably the best "weapon" that you can easily justify having the stats of a proper sword that a modern day character can easily acquire without having to hit up like... a ren-faire or something.
Fair enough. Your approach and mine differ by how much we're thinking about it. I got the impression that the OP is looking for a certain degree of realistic feel, hence the logic. Your approach seems to be more in line with a Loony Tunes or "Home Alone" approach to violence, which is fine if that's what you're going for.
To be fair, the swords you could get in those shops, especially in the 80s, are not going to be effective as actual weapons most of the time. They'd be likely to break any time they it something solid, the hilts are often poorly secured, and the blades won't keep an edge for long (assuming the y don't bend or break first) if they're even sharp to begin with. Also I get the impression that the OP is looking for a sense of realism in their game so PCs carrying a katana in public are going to draw a lot of unwanted attention to themselves. Granted, the same can be said about baseball bats, sledgehammers, and fire axes, but those things can at least be acquired more easily and wit confidence that they'll actually perform as expected to.
I would love to see players make a run to those mall shops that sell "Samurai swords"...
They weren't all complete junk. Pretty sure there's still a hole in a blackboard at my old high school from where I tested out a buddy's shuriken...
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
As one of those weird kids who used to hang out at the sword store in my local mall, for the most part the weapons sold were entirely decorative, although there were some useable knives and daggers. The shop-owner clarified that stuff that's actually designed to be sturdy and useable were considered "battle ready" and cost about 5 times the prices of the decorative stuff.
The majority of the stuff those places sell is made of stainless steel. Quite a few of the swords will actually break under their own weight if you actually tried to remove them from their sheaths (as seen in the movie Paul).
As far as non-firearm weapons go, bows and crossbows should be readily available at sporting goods and hunting stores. For melee weapons, I recommend watching some martial arts movies that are set in modern times (and aren't comedies or utilizing supernatural stuff). A lot of them feature gangs using weapons that really were popular among criminal organizations in places like Hong Kong, where guns were too difficult to get. And of course, remember the biker gangs using chains.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Thank you guys for the inspiration, I definitely like the idea of decorative weapons with the "fragile" property and maybe even causing some to do bludgeoning (although bludgeoning is getting way to common on my weapon table). But I've gotten a lot of great suggestions to fill out the other damage types like drills and cheap pocket knives for piercing damage and even pepper spray that deal fire damage/blindness on a failed con save. I'll probably release a chart on this site in a few days.
If you haven't been to a local machine shop that does production or specialty metal work it may be worth a look. Some of the tools they use to cut metal or even perform maintenance could give inspiration. Large wrenches, punches, awls, and scrapers would do the job in a pinch. Heck, even the school paper cutter's blade could be deadly.
Don't forget the maintenance closet. Mixing common chemicals can lead to deadly or explosive results (think bleach and ammonia). Have them visit the local high school science classroom for more exotic stuff.
Every business must display the MSDS sheets on any chemicals and their reactivity.
Even road flares could be weaponized.
Just think back to your childhood and all those things adults said you shouldn't play with cuz they were dangerous.
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Don't know if this is in the right forum or not.
So I'm writing and running a 5e campaign that will all take place within a large city in the 80's . Guns will be present but not at low levels and even high level players would need to be rich or lucky to get one. I'm currently stumped on what sort of "mundane" weapons to add and looking for answers online has lead to "Baton and Knife" followed by every conceivable type of gun. So what are some good ideas for modern weapons that aren't militarized?
Baseball bat. Cricket bat. Hockey stick. Slingshot. Cleaver. Chainsaw. Hammer. Any number of garden tools. A battery in a sock. A length of chain.
So this city is not in the U.S., I mean Lynyrd Skynyrd put out "Mr. Saturday Night Special" in '75. Guns are relatively cheap, especially the type used in crime.
Anyway, I think besides guns, knives, machetes, axes, batons ... almost everything else is going to fall under the "improvised weapon" category, which doesn't get a lot of flash in 5e. But if you want a catalogue of implements that all perform relatively the same mechanically speaking, I'd just brainstorm off in game effects. Make three lists: bludgeon (baseball bats to ash trays and bowling balls), pierce (ice picks and stakes), slashing (axes, machetes, I guess chainsaws?). Then go to a hardware store and add things to these columns as you walk the aisles. I'm half-facetious but outside of weapons made to hurt people, almost anything can be improvised into a weapon (D&D doesn't really have great strangulation rules, but if it did your list would be even more well rounded, and you'd have a place for swimming pools on it too).
At a comic store I used to hang out, conversation would occasionally drift into "weapon of choice" type discussions. One guy always insisted his preferred melee weapon would be a Volvo. Guy's got a point, blunt damage, but a point.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Honestly, even outside the US hunting weapons are typically not overly hard to find nor overly expensive. And there are legitimate professions that can provide access to firearms other than being part of the military, and gun clubs/ranges exist in many countries too even if usually with more stringent restrictions on possession than the US. I expect extra limitations will be in order (no hunters, LEOs and so on).
On topic: there are tons of things, from the somewhat innocuous repurposed sports (bats) or kitchen (knives) gear over slightly more suspicious tools (axes, crowbars, hammers) and actually-really-a-weapon-except-meant-for-hobby-purposes (bows and martial arts gear) to pretty-much-just-weapons (combat knives, brass knuckles, batons), not to mention improvised or scratch-built stuff (broken bottles, shivs, garrottes from piano wire, a couple of soda cans in a pillow case, molotov cocktails, pressurized cans of flammable gas). There's also poisons, although delivery systems for those would likely be circumstantial, and even in the no internet '80s explosives wouldn't necessarily be impossible to craft or steal.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Actually, I've been told by elders who were hellions back in the day that it was much easier to construct gunpowder and pipe bombs and the like in the U.S. in the 50s and 60s as the materials were more readily availably at pharmacies and folks didn't really bat an eye at the purchases. As far as methodology, even pre Anarchist Cookbook style zines and manuals that circulated through underground and faux-underground presses, there were these places called libraries, with a lower signal to noise ratio on the actual utility and efficacy of techniques.
But yeah, explosives and incendiaries would be a thing. ON top of "poison", mace and chemical irritants designed to be used as weapons as well as improvised stuff like bleach and acids.
I'm pretty sure Boy Scouts manuals had info on snares, may still today. Add to that bear traps and other forms of booby traps from staked pits to the Home Alone movies.
Again though, D&D paints all this stuff with broader brushes than it does with more "militant" combat (and it still does that in broad strokes too), so I see a lot of diverse skins but not necessarily a broad range of differing effects, which is the same complain some critics of D&D pose to the game anyway so I guess nothing wrong there.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Baseball/cricket bats can use greatclub stats as they're intended for two handed swings and are balanced and weighted specifically for such. Smaller bats, such as ones made for use by children, could count as a regular club in the hands of an adult. I would say a crowbar is heavy enough to count as a mace for rules purposes. A hunting/survival knife or even a large kitchen knife (such as a chef's knife) is functionally a dagger, though you might remove the thrown quality as those blades are not typically balanced for throwing. Machetes are basically short swords, though you might have them deal slashing damage rather than piercing as they are not really intended for stabbing. A hatchet is literally a hand axe, we just don't call it a "hand axe" as much nowadays. Axes made for camping, woodcutting, and firefighting range between battleaxes (usable with one hand) and greataxes (bigger and heavier ones intended for chopping down large trees or quickly clearing large obstacles like doors or collapsed structural beams). A sledgehammer is a maul, a typical "craftsman's" hammer readily available at any hardware store (claw, ball-peen, or a variety of small mallets) should count as a light hammer on the weapons table and there are various heavier mallets and lighter, short handled sledgehammers could be ruled as warhammers.
Nunchaku, staff, a big piece of rebar, molotov cocktail, ball bearings in a sock
Make a DC 15 Survival check to try and make something from the Anarchist Cookbook. If you fail the check by more than 5 points, it blows up in your face.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Honestly, at that point it's mostly a flavor thing. I would recommend just letting players choose what item they want to wield as a weapon then just figure out what statted weapon it most closely resembles. Someone wants to fight with a rake? Sure, that's a Trident. Brass Knuckles? That's a club. Shovel? Sounds like a Battleaxe to me.
The only difference is if you intend there to be actual, proper weapons that are difficult to acquire. Like... if there's somewhere the players could conceivably go to get a real-ass scimitar, then don't let any mundane objects get stats better than a simple weapon.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
A rake as a reliable weapon at all is pushing the limits of reason (assuming a heavy duty farming/gardening rake and not a flimsy yard rake), and even then it most certainly should neither be wieldable one handed (not effectively at least so no proficiency bonus) and absolutely should not have the thrown property. Brass knuckles as a club does make sense, and a shovel is again not suited to wielding one handed in addition to not being suited to maximizing cutting damage (even if you sharpen it) nor heavy enough to call it a maul. I'd rule a shovel as a greatclub, maybe a spear if it is somehow effectively sharpened to a point. And a machete purchasable in most hardware stores (at least in the US, not sure about other countries) for the purpose of cutting branches and clearing underbrush and is basically a short sword made for slashing so there's your "real-ass scimitar" (there are plenty of historical and modern examples of machetes being extremely well suited to use as deadly weapons, not just in corny horror movies).
I was thinking more on the grounds of "rule of fun" for the purpose of reflavoring, as opposed to limiting options based on actual like... logic. Mostly my intent was to give suggestions on how to give players weapons that are mechanically as useful as proper weaponry while still limiting them to mundane modern-day items.
I do agree that Machetes are probably the best "weapon" that you can easily justify having the stats of a proper sword that a modern day character can easily acquire without having to hit up like... a ren-faire or something.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
The movies Anchorman and Anchorman 2 can give you more inspiration. Someone wrote trident and that's where my mind went.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Fair enough. Your approach and mine differ by how much we're thinking about it. I got the impression that the OP is looking for a certain degree of realistic feel, hence the logic. Your approach seems to be more in line with a Loony Tunes or "Home Alone" approach to violence, which is fine if that's what you're going for.
I would love to see players make a run to those mall shops that sell "Samurai swords"...
To be fair, the swords you could get in those shops, especially in the 80s, are not going to be effective as actual weapons most of the time. They'd be likely to break any time they it something solid, the hilts are often poorly secured, and the blades won't keep an edge for long (assuming the y don't bend or break first) if they're even sharp to begin with. Also I get the impression that the OP is looking for a sense of realism in their game so PCs carrying a katana in public are going to draw a lot of unwanted attention to themselves. Granted, the same can be said about baseball bats, sledgehammers, and fire axes, but those things can at least be acquired more easily and wit confidence that they'll actually perform as expected to.
They weren't all complete junk. Pretty sure there's still a hole in a blackboard at my old high school from where I tested out a buddy's shuriken...
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
As one of those weird kids who used to hang out at the sword store in my local mall, for the most part the weapons sold were entirely decorative, although there were some useable knives and daggers. The shop-owner clarified that stuff that's actually designed to be sturdy and useable were considered "battle ready" and cost about 5 times the prices of the decorative stuff.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
The majority of the stuff those places sell is made of stainless steel. Quite a few of the swords will actually break under their own weight if you actually tried to remove them from their sheaths (as seen in the movie Paul).
As far as non-firearm weapons go, bows and crossbows should be readily available at sporting goods and hunting stores. For melee weapons, I recommend watching some martial arts movies that are set in modern times (and aren't comedies or utilizing supernatural stuff). A lot of them feature gangs using weapons that really were popular among criminal organizations in places like Hong Kong, where guns were too difficult to get. And of course, remember the biker gangs using chains.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Thank you guys for the inspiration, I definitely like the idea of decorative weapons with the "fragile" property and maybe even causing some to do bludgeoning (although bludgeoning is getting way to common on my weapon table). But I've gotten a lot of great suggestions to fill out the other damage types like drills and cheap pocket knives for piercing damage and even pepper spray that deal fire damage/blindness on a failed con save. I'll probably release a chart on this site in a few days.
If you haven't been to a local machine shop that does production or specialty metal work it may be worth a look. Some of the tools they use to cut metal or even perform maintenance could give inspiration. Large wrenches, punches, awls, and scrapers would do the job in a pinch. Heck, even the school paper cutter's blade could be deadly.
Don't forget the maintenance closet. Mixing common chemicals can lead to deadly or explosive results (think bleach and ammonia). Have them visit the local high school science classroom for more exotic stuff.
Every business must display the MSDS sheets on any chemicals and their reactivity.
Even road flares could be weaponized.
Just think back to your childhood and all those things adults said you shouldn't play with cuz they were dangerous.