So my players saved a dwarf Mithril mine from an Aboleth unenslaving the mine, one of the players, after some great persuasion rolls, convinced the dwarves to pay him in Mithril instead of gold coin. He has now told me he wants to take that Mithril to a Blacksmith to have a suit of Mithril Plate Armour made.
Now I am fine with that, the Mithril was approx 1500 gold out of the reward, and the player knows there will be a price for making the armour out of it, but my question.
The town they are heading back to (also was threatened by aboleth) is small with one dwarf master Blacksmith and several other less skilled in the area, they are going to have an in game 2 week period to rest up and do some in game montage stuff. So how long do you think a set of Mithril Plate Armour would take to make in game?
If we assume that the time to craft is equal to the time to craft a magic item of the same rarity plus the time required for mundane crafting, it works out to 32 workweeks (160 days work) in XGTE. However, you may wish to ignore the rules.
If we assume that the time to craft is equal to the time to craft a magic item of the same rarity plus the time required for mundane crafting, it works out to 32 workweeks (160 days work) in XGTE. However, you may wish to ignore the rules.
My thing with this is that even though it is listed as a magic item for me there is no magic in it, it is a piece of Armour made out of Mithril so the 32 weeks feels excessive, but I do agree 2 weeks for 1 blacksmith feels too short, part of me feels I make the player wait, I run an open sandbox world and the players now have the freedom to go where ever they want, heading to the main city, or the dwarven capital, both of which would have artisans good enough to make the set, would be a good carrot to dangle, and there maybe a team of blacksmiths could work on the set together, that’s an idea maybe.
If we assume that the time to craft is equal to the time to craft a magic item of the same rarity plus the time required for mundane crafting, it works out to 32 workweeks (160 days work) in XGTE. However, you may wish to ignore the rules.
My thing with this is that even though it is listed as a magic item for me there is no magic in it, it is a piece of Armour made out of Mithril so the 32 weeks feels excessive
30 of those weeks are for making the mundane suit, only 2 weeks are for the fact it's classed as magical. But yes, it's perfectly legitimate to have a team of smiths make something.
Having a team will shrink the time some but the reality is it takes time to make even steel armor so the team might shrink the 30 weeks mundane time to 20 weeks but that is about all throwing more smiths at it will do. Further, the best modern analog for Mithril is titanium which is more difficult than steel to work so only the masters ( and maybe 1-2 top journeyman) would be working on it. In addition, the character would have to be returning to the team of smiths repeatedly for fittings since it is a non magical suit. You might have the local smith write suggest that the character go to Dwarven capitol and provide a letter of introduction to the guild master their as this suit is likely to be a guild project not just by a single smith.
A full set of plate armor needs a lot of parts. These parts all need to be forged from mithril first. Fitting, assembling, etc. comes on top. And a master smith, who is capable of forging mithril plate will most probably take the extra time and craft a piece of art and functionality with some ornamentation or at least impressive design.
32 weeks sounds quite right here.
Edit: found a german forging forum, one guy there states that a full chain jacket takes him around half a year to forge, because he needs 30000 rings for that.
A mithral armor is an uncommon magic item requiring 2 workweeks to craft according to XGtE's crafting magic items rules.
The ingredient for a mithral armor should however be in this particular case a set of plate armor, which costs 1500 Gp and takes 30 weeks to forge.
Aren't normal craftring rule a fifth of the value, so 300 days? 314 in total seems way to long to me game wise. Personally, i'd let an armorer put in overtime and complete it in 2 weeks so the player can get it before the campaign is over or nearly so☺
A mithral armor is an uncommon magic item requiring 2 workweeks to craft according to XGtE's crafting magic items rules.
The ingredient for a mithral armor should however be in this particular case a set of plate armor, which costs 1500 Gp and takes 30 weeks to forge.
Aren't normal craftring rule a fifth of the value, so 300 days? 314 in total seems way to long to me game wise. Personally, i'd let an armorer put in overtime and complete it in 2 weeks so the player can get it before the campaign is over or nearly so☺
Making armor is rather like a pregnancy - not something you can really hurry by adding people or “working overtime” . Useing titanium as the analog for Mithril you have to heat it to temp above the melting point of steel just to properly work it so heating times are increased as well as cooling times. It is also considerably more difficult to work increasing the working times. While I could potentially see the 2 week magical enhancement period giving the armor the “ auto sizing” property that is really the only magical benefit to such armor - everything else is a standard result of the material not the magic. As such the magic rules should be superseded by the mundane crafting rules. Could a team of master craftsmen and their best journeyman create the such armor in less time than a single smith? Of course! Would it reduce 30 weeks to 2 weeks? No freaking way! The other benefits to the longer time is that brings the character and party back to center multiple times between adventures creating more opportunities for non combat interactions and campaign building, it makes the suit’s value relevant not just a found magic item, and it provides a touch of reality in an otherwise totally fantasy setting.
Making armor is rather like a pregnancy - not something you can really hurry by adding people or “working overtime”
It's absolutely something you can hurry by adding people. To make a suit of plate, first you have to create and shape a bunch of individual plates, and that's a job that's easy to split up. Final assembly not so much, but that's pretty late in the process.
One of my PCs obtained some damaged adamantine armor in my campaign and I’m making it take about 90 days to fix the armor and alter it to fit his body. He’s an Aldani (Lobsterfolk) so it’s legitimate that armor has to be customized for him to wear it.
Very legitimate enough that I would say 90 days is probably the absolute lowest time period it could be done in and like the Mithril armor even a team of Dwarven mastersmiths would probably take more like 20-30 weeks not 13. It’s your world but I think it should be longer.
There are 3 rules sets you can use elements of all or none but the general trend over time has been to reduce the time and gold taken in favour of increasing the requirements on the character and adding random elements/ combat. This is because simple transactions of gold for item are more easily abused and can turn the game into a spread sheet simulator. As a player I have literally used spread sheets to optimize crafting time before. For your situation the Xanathar rules are probably the best as the quest reward would basically take the place of having to defeat a monster for the ingredients.
They must be able to cast the relevant spell every day of the crafting time
crafting cost depends on rarity
players make 25 gold a day in progress to the crafting cost
you must be proficient in the relevant tools
so for an uncommon mithril armor it would take 20 days and 500 gold. The player must be level 3, have proficiency in smiths tools and does not require any spells.
there is a 1/10 chance per 5 weeks of work time of a complication
you must defeat an encounter with a monster whose cr is based on the rarity
For uncommon mithril armor you would need to spend 200 gold and 2 work weeks ( 10 days) . You must defeat a monster of cr 4-8 for the ingredients and be proficient in smiths tools. There is a 1/10 chance of a complication
Other stuff
I personally also ask my players some questions about the process.
How is it crafted? for example o you use any magic in the process? do you make it at a special place or time?
What materials do you use? for example is there gold trim or gems?
From that I give the items minor quirks. The DMG has the special features and artifact properties rules have allot of minor touch you can add. None of this should take very long really a player should come to you with an idea of how they want to craft it and what they want in mind then you just determine the result. The idea is they come up with a match between style, ingredients and function.
For example a spell caster may forge a +2 blade in dragon fire by casting the spell dragon's breath and speaking magic words into the weapon as its forged in the dragon language. The sword is made with a ruby and gold trim from a dragon hoard.
If a player did that I would give it the draconic style which has the bonus property of "It grows slightly warm when within 120 feet of a dragon." from the special features table in addition to the magic item properties. If for some reason it is a one off like if they killed a very powerful dragon for it or something then I might roll a minor artifact property. The idea is to make it a player driven process that encourages creativity.
Edit: I forgot xanathar also has mundane crafting rules which some one else mentioned its 50 gold a day up to the price of the item and you pay half the items value in materials. So a set of mithril plate would take 30 days and cost 750 gold.
Edit: I forgot xanathar also has mundane crafting rules which some one else mentioned its 50 gold a day up to the price of the item and you pay half the items value in materials. So a set of mithril plate would take 30 days and cost 750 gold.
Edit: I forgot xanathar also has mundane crafting rules which some one else mentioned its 50 gold a day up to the price of the item and you pay half the items value in materials. So a set of mithril plate would take 30 days and cost 750 gold.
It is weeks per 50 Gp not days. ;)
weeks
Resources and Resolution. In addition to the appropriate tools for the item to be crafted, a character needs raw materials worth half of the item’s selling cost. To determine how many workweeks it takes to create an item, divide its gold piece cost by 50. A character can complete multiple items in a workweek if the items’ combined cost is 50 gp or lower. Items that cost more than 50 gp can be completed over longer periods of time, as long as the work in progress is stored in a safe location.
There is a problem in trying to work this out- plate armor has a value of 1500 GP ( for a standard steel no magic suit), however, Mithril armor of any type is considered an uncommon magic item by the DMG with a max value of 500 GP. Which value do you plug into Xanther’s calculations? If you use the plate armour you get 30 weeks, if you plug in magic item value you get 10 weeks. Personally I think the plate armor value is better as a starting point. Again, if you use titanium as an Al along for Mithril you would multiply that time by some factor to represent how much harder it is to work with Mithril. I suggest 1.5x, for a starting point making it 45 weeks. If you want to reduce that by adding smiths then divide by the number of master smiths available/ working on it. Even a Dwarven capitol probably doesn’t have more than 10 Mithril smiths in it just because there isn’t that much Mithril around to hone your skills on. That would bring the overall time down to 4.5 weeks which seems too short but I can accept it.
As a side note, since you’ve been fighting aboleths you might want to check under homebrew weapons - I created a couple of anti-aboleth weapons for a part of my world.
There is a problem in trying to work this out- plate armor has a value of 1500 GP ( for a standard steel no magic suit), however, Mithril armor of any type is considered an uncommon magic item by the DMG with a max value of 500 GP. Which value do you plug into Xanther’s calculations? If you use the plate armour you get 30 weeks, if you plug in magic item value you get 10 weeks. Personally I think the plate armor value is better as a starting point. Again, if you use titanium as an Al along for Mithril you would multiply that time by some factor to represent how much harder it is to work with Mithril. I suggest 1.5x, for a starting point making it 45 weeks. If you want to reduce that by adding smiths then divide by the number of master smiths available/ working on it. Even a Dwarven capitol probably doesn’t have more than 10 Mithril smiths in it just because there isn’t that much Mithril around to hone your skills on. That would bring the overall time down to 4.5 weeks which seems too short but I can accept it.
For all magical armour that is lower in price to the mundane equivalent I add the Magical cost to the Mundane cost, so, Mithril Armour is 800gp (I use the sane price guide) Plate is 1500, so mthril plate is 2300
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So my players saved a dwarf Mithril mine from an Aboleth unenslaving the mine, one of the players, after some great persuasion rolls, convinced the dwarves to pay him in Mithril instead of gold coin. He has now told me he wants to take that Mithril to a Blacksmith to have a suit of Mithril Plate Armour made.
Now I am fine with that, the Mithril was approx 1500 gold out of the reward, and the player knows there will be a price for making the armour out of it, but my question.
The town they are heading back to (also was threatened by aboleth) is small with one dwarf master Blacksmith and several other less skilled in the area, they are going to have an in game 2 week period to rest up and do some in game montage stuff. So how long do you think a set of Mithril Plate Armour would take to make in game?
If we assume that the time to craft is equal to the time to craft a magic item of the same rarity plus the time required for mundane crafting, it works out to 32 workweeks (160 days work) in XGTE. However, you may wish to ignore the rules.
My thing with this is that even though it is listed as a magic item for me there is no magic in it, it is a piece of Armour made out of Mithril so the 32 weeks feels excessive, but I do agree 2 weeks for 1 blacksmith feels too short, part of me feels I make the player wait, I run an open sandbox world and the players now have the freedom to go where ever they want, heading to the main city, or the dwarven capital, both of which would have artisans good enough to make the set, would be a good carrot to dangle, and there maybe a team of blacksmiths could work on the set together, that’s an idea maybe.
30 of those weeks are for making the mundane suit, only 2 weeks are for the fact it's classed as magical. But yes, it's perfectly legitimate to have a team of smiths make something.
Having a team will shrink the time some but the reality is it takes time to make even steel armor so the team might shrink the 30 weeks mundane time to 20 weeks but that is about all throwing more smiths at it will do. Further, the best modern analog for Mithril is titanium which is more difficult than steel to work so only the masters ( and maybe 1-2 top journeyman) would be working on it. In addition, the character would have to be returning to the team of smiths repeatedly for fittings since it is a non magical suit. You might have the local smith write suggest that the character go to Dwarven capitol and provide a letter of introduction to the guild master their as this suit is likely to be a guild project not just by a single smith.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
A full set of plate armor needs a lot of parts. These parts all need to be forged from mithril first. Fitting, assembling, etc. comes on top. And a master smith, who is capable of forging mithril plate will most probably take the extra time and craft a piece of art and functionality with some ornamentation or at least impressive design.
32 weeks sounds quite right here.
Edit: found a german forging forum, one guy there states that a full chain jacket takes him around half a year to forge, because he needs 30000 rings for that.
A mithral armor is an uncommon magic item requiring 2 workweeks to craft according to XGtE's crafting magic items rules.
The ingredient for a mithral armor should however be in this particular case a set of plate armor, which costs 1500 Gp and takes 30 weeks to forge.
Aren't normal craftring rule a fifth of the value, so 300 days? 314 in total seems way to long to me game wise. Personally, i'd let an armorer put in overtime and complete it in 2 weeks so the player can get it before the campaign is over or nearly so☺
Xanathar's rules on crafting set the time at 1 work week per 50 Gp worth of item.
You need only half the items worth in materials. So for a set of plate armor, 750 Gp materials and 30 work weeks crafting time.
Making armor is rather like a pregnancy - not something you can really hurry by adding people or “working overtime” . Useing titanium as the analog for Mithril you have to heat it to temp above the melting point of steel just to properly work it so heating times are increased as well as cooling times. It is also considerably more difficult to work increasing the working times. While I could potentially see the 2 week magical enhancement period giving the armor the “ auto sizing” property that is really the only magical benefit to such armor - everything else is a standard result of the material not the magic. As such the magic rules should be superseded by the mundane crafting rules. Could a team of master craftsmen and their best journeyman create the such armor in less time than a single smith? Of course! Would it reduce 30 weeks to 2 weeks? No freaking way! The other benefits to the longer time is that brings the character and party back to center multiple times between adventures creating more opportunities for non combat interactions and campaign building, it makes the suit’s value relevant not just a found magic item, and it provides a touch of reality in an otherwise totally fantasy setting.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
It's absolutely something you can hurry by adding people. To make a suit of plate, first you have to create and shape a bunch of individual plates, and that's a job that's easy to split up. Final assembly not so much, but that's pretty late in the process.
One of my PCs obtained some damaged adamantine armor in my campaign and I’m making it take about 90 days to fix the armor and alter it to fit his body. He’s an Aldani (Lobsterfolk) so it’s legitimate that armor has to be customized for him to wear it.
Professional computer geek
Very legitimate enough that I would say 90 days is probably the absolute lowest time period it could be done in and like the Mithril armor even a team of Dwarven mastersmiths would probably take more like 20-30 weeks not 13. It’s your world but I think it should be longer.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
There are 3 rules sets you can use elements of all or none but the general trend over time has been to reduce the time and gold taken in favour of increasing the requirements on the character and adding random elements/ combat. This is because simple transactions of gold for item are more easily abused and can turn the game into a spread sheet simulator. As a player I have literally used spread sheets to optimize crafting time before. For your situation the Xanathar rules are probably the best as the quest reward would basically take the place of having to defeat a monster for the ingredients.
Basic rules non magical crafting
as a result plate armor would cost 750g to make and take 300 days
DMG rules magic items
so for an uncommon mithril armor it would take 20 days and 500 gold. The player must be level 3, have proficiency in smiths tools and does not require any spells.
Xanathar's magic item rules
For uncommon mithril armor you would need to spend 200 gold and 2 work weeks ( 10 days) . You must defeat a monster of cr 4-8 for the ingredients and be proficient in smiths tools. There is a 1/10 chance of a complication
Other stuff
I personally also ask my players some questions about the process.
From that I give the items minor quirks. The DMG has the special features and artifact properties rules have allot of minor touch you can add. None of this should take very long really a player should come to you with an idea of how they want to craft it and what they want in mind then you just determine the result. The idea is they come up with a match between style, ingredients and function.
For example a spell caster may forge a +2 blade in dragon fire by casting the spell dragon's breath and speaking magic words into the weapon as its forged in the dragon language. The sword is made with a ruby and gold trim from a dragon hoard.
If a player did that I would give it the draconic style which has the bonus property of "It grows slightly warm when within 120 feet of a dragon." from the special features table in addition to the magic item properties. If for some reason it is a one off like if they killed a very powerful dragon for it or something then I might roll a minor artifact property. The idea is to make it a player driven process that encourages creativity.
Edit: I forgot xanathar also has mundane crafting rules which some one else mentioned its 50 gold a day up to the price of the item and you pay half the items value in materials. So a set of mithril plate would take 30 days and cost 750 gold.
It is weeks per 50 Gp not days. ;)
weeks
There is a problem in trying to work this out- plate armor has a value of 1500 GP ( for a standard steel no magic suit), however, Mithril armor of any type is considered an uncommon magic item by the DMG with a max value of 500 GP. Which value do you plug into Xanther’s calculations? If you use the plate armour you get 30 weeks, if you plug in magic item value you get 10 weeks. Personally I think the plate armor value is better as a starting point. Again, if you use titanium as an Al along for Mithril you would multiply that time by some factor to represent how much harder it is to work with Mithril. I suggest 1.5x, for a starting point making it 45 weeks. If you want to reduce that by adding smiths then divide by the number of master smiths available/ working on it. Even a Dwarven capitol probably doesn’t have more than 10 Mithril smiths in it just because there isn’t that much Mithril around to hone your skills on. That would bring the overall time down to 4.5 weeks which seems too short but I can accept it.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
As a side note, since you’ve been fighting aboleths you might want to check under homebrew weapons - I created a couple of anti-aboleth weapons for a part of my world.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
For all magical armour that is lower in price to the mundane equivalent I add the Magical cost to the Mundane cost, so, Mithril Armour is 800gp (I use the sane price guide) Plate is 1500, so mthril plate is 2300