I just received word from one of my players that she wants to quit. This comes a bit as a shock since we just had a very fun (at least I thought) live session. We have been playing every Friday online for more than 2 years in this long campaign.
One of the reasons was that I didn't provide her with enough information about something in her backstory, which is true to a certain extend since I had been building up towards it. We did have a very long journey of travel that played out that took probably half a year real time (it is a very rp heavy group), but they visited various towns along the way as well as some random encounters. The places they visited didn't have much information about the situation at hand but I thought I dropped enough small hints. When they arrived in the large city which does hold the answers. A few sessions ago she approached a place where she had parted from a trusted npc before she went on her journey and before meeting the other players. The campaign took place several months after that departure. (The npc is not from that city, he just escorted her there at that time from the Capitol city) Since this place was of significant value for one of my other players, I had decided that the npc she was looking for wasn't there but had moved on to another place. I did however prepare for her to meet two other important characters at her families mansion, since she was planning to go there. Which in my eyes felt like it had more of a personal connection for her character than the other place. They did say where the other character had gone off to, which was also a place of significance to her, but that place is still some days traveling away from this city.
I'm a bit at a loss of what to do now, especially since I had planned a lot of things around her backstory for the upcoming sessions and entangled some of my other players story together with it. (They finally arrived at the point where answers are going to be found and things are starting to get revealed.)
I did reply to her that I do understand that if she no longer enjoys the sessions that I can imagine why she wants to stop. I did also inform her that I have things prepared regarding the backstory in this city. Hoping she might stay a little longer, but I do respect her choice if she decides to leave. I also asked if she really wants to quit if she would consider playing at least one more session so the other players can say goodbye to her character and her.
I'm also a bit anxious since her sister is also a player in the campaign, so I hope I don't lose two players all of a sudden.
Does anyone have any tips or advise how to handle this? If she leaves, should I dedicate a session after it with my players to talk about this to see how they feel about this? Or to poll if they feel the same about their backstories or the pacing?
A simple word, but I have found it to be the best. Check with the player in question and ask if they are happy with you sharing the message or the news, or if they'd like to break the news themselves. Try to emphasise to everyone that there's no hard feelings. Offer to leave a door open for return. Offer them the ability to write their exit. Ask if they'd return for a partial session just to bid farewell to the party. Getting the player in question involved in that way can emphasise that you care about them and their character to both the player and the party.
If they refuse those offers, explain to the party as best you can. Explain you left an open door for their return. Explain that you don't feel animosity (if that is true).
Whatever happens, I would dedicate at least part of a session to the farewell both in and out of character. Take your lead from your players. If they roleplay the loss of said character and wrap up relatively quickly you can move on, but don't force them to end that roleplay.
You seem to have run into the problem of planning too tightly. If you plan too tightly you paint yourself into a corner. You can't move any clues to solve puzzles, you can't move NPCs or items. So, if something happens the whole plan falls to pieces. If you plan too loose you've got no idea what is where or how to deliver a good session. In all honesty, it sounds like you've planned a little too far and a little too tightly. So, either rework your planning or throw away the stuff contingent on the PC leaving.
Finally, conversations with your players are never a bad things. Polls are really useful for gather information without identifying players. I personally find open conversations are better though.
Somewhat paradoxically, if you want to throw surprise twists at your players, you need to run it by them first. That isn't to say that you need to give the player all the details and spoil the secret, but you do need to tell them enough to get them to buy into the idea of your secret.
I'm having a little trouble following your example of what went wrong, but it sounds to me like the problem is the player came all this way to meet with an npc and is upset that the npc stood her up. If I knew the player's goal was to get to X location to meet Y npc, but I the DM wanted to shake it up and instead direct her towards Z location to meet two different npc's for drama purposes, I would take that player aside or text them something along the lines of "hey, heads up, I had an idea for your character when you reach X location. Are you OK if I take the reins for a bit there? I promise I have something planned."
If the player think that sounds cool then awesome, no problem, but if the player says "idk I REALLY wanted to talk to Y", then also cool, now you know that the player is really invested in meeting with Y and you can leave that part untouched.
When at all possible, you should give players a say in how their story unfolds, as ultimately this is a collaborative storytelling game.
I'll echo, because it's worth stressing: transparent communication is the way to go.
It sounds like your player has been unhappy for a while, but may not have known she could say something about it - or felt comfortable saying it. Even with the most friendly and collaborative DMs, sometimes players will keep quiet because they don't want to seem confrontational or critical. The way around that is to ask them frequently for feedback and offer suggestions for potential changes rather than relying on them to bring it up.
At this point, you might be able to convince her to hang in there for your plans or she might be convinced nothing will change to her liking. In either case, I would strongly recommend you do a temperature check with each of your players privately just to make sure they're happy with how things are going. Questions like, "What interests you most/least about the campaign so far? What are you looking forward to doing next in-game? Do you have any plans or ideas for your character? Would you like a backstory arc?" help you gauge people's feelings and plan ahead without forcing people to make value judgments about your DMing. I actually make digital surveys for my players and send it to them yearly in addition to doing informal check-ins.
One way to look at it is the whole "The Journey is the joy" angle:
They can know that at the end of this point there will be something there. The point isn't that they get there, it is how they get there.
Some of my 20 something and 30 something players really like when I do romance angles. They are never something I foist on anyone, but they love them, both between players and with NPCs. I suck so bad at romance that I took a class in writing it (and failed. I failed a class I paid for.) Nevertheless, I put in romances -- and they often don't move fast enough for them because they are low on my priority list, so I have to have notes and I have to talk to them.
Yes, you will meet the Baron again, but, I mean, you are currently 1500 miles away in the middle of a goblin warren, and while he could teleport to you, it would leave his realm under risk of attack.
This despite knowing that the baron didn't care and is riding to her rescue because he thinks she shouldn't be an adventurer.
Talk to them. Not just the upset one, but all of them.
This game is best when everyone is a part of it.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I'll echo the other comments. Transparency and communications.
Also, the DM needs to pay close attention to the social interactions of the game. Are these people you know in person or just through online connections? How well do you know them and the other things that may be going on in their lives.
Very rarely will someone quit a game because their PC is unable to meet up with an NPC at a specific location or even because some character centric story line is moving too slowly.
The main reasons someone might quit are typically not character related.
- real life commitments. Is school/work/social life outside of the game becoming a bigger factor. Friday night is often a night for going out depending on the age group involved so perhaps they want to do something else with their Fridays but don't want to disrupt the rest of the group?
- real life social interactions. Is there an issue between the player and one or more other players outside of the game that you might not be aware of?
- uncomfortable social game content. You mention this is a "heavy" role playing group. Sometimes this "role-playing" can stray too close to the real world especially where treatment of women, minority groups, and other content that could include innuendo, be misinterpreted, or be said in character but could be interpreted as being addressed to the player. This kind of thing can make some players uncomfortable/angry/etc but they may not want to speak up and ask it to stop due to peer pressure and fear of how others may react so they might choose to leave the game. (This can include comments by the DM, behaviour of NPCs, and the possibility of perceived favoritism in plot or treatment of different characters).
- real life peer pressure or other outside interactions. Parents might complain about them spending Friday nights on a computer. Friends or significant others might not like or understand role playing games and make them feel bad for playing. Someone in their lives might be jealous of their time spent with other friends.
- the player may just have gotten tired of the game, is finding the plotline stale or boring, and just can't find the enthusiasm they once had for playing. This can indicate that maybe they just need to take a break and try something new.
Figuring out why someone wants to quit a game after several years of play which they apparently enjoyed is both challenging and fraught with pitfalls. However, in my experience, the game content by itself is rarely the motivating factor, especially if they have been enjoying playing.
P.S. I'd also agree with Aquilain, it sounds like your campaign may have become more of a railroad. When you set up events in detail with certain things in certain places, it is predicated on the assumption that the character/player will follow along the breadcrumbs and do exactly what is expected. The characters have a world presented to them, they should get to choose where to go and whether that includes following up on backstory elements immediately, eventually or never.
Hello all,
I just received word from one of my players that she wants to quit.
This comes a bit as a shock since we just had a very fun (at least I thought) live session. We have been playing every Friday online for more than 2 years in this long campaign.
One of the reasons was that I didn't provide her with enough information about something in her backstory, which is true to a certain extend since I had been building up towards it.
We did have a very long journey of travel that played out that took probably half a year real time (it is a very rp heavy group), but they visited various towns along the way as well as some random encounters. The places they visited didn't have much information about the situation at hand but I thought I dropped enough small hints. When they arrived in the large city which does hold the answers. A few sessions ago she approached a place where she had parted from a trusted npc before she went on her journey and before meeting the other players. The campaign took place several months after that departure. (The npc is not from that city, he just escorted her there at that time from the Capitol city) Since this place was of significant value for one of my other players, I had decided that the npc she was looking for wasn't there but had moved on to another place. I did however prepare for her to meet two other important characters at her families mansion, since she was planning to go there. Which in my eyes felt like it had more of a personal connection for her character than the other place. They did say where the other character had gone off to, which was also a place of significance to her, but that place is still some days traveling away from this city.
I'm a bit at a loss of what to do now, especially since I had planned a lot of things around her backstory for the upcoming sessions and entangled some of my other players story together with it. (They finally arrived at the point where answers are going to be found and things are starting to get revealed.)
I did reply to her that I do understand that if she no longer enjoys the sessions that I can imagine why she wants to stop. I did also inform her that I have things prepared regarding the backstory in this city. Hoping she might stay a little longer, but I do respect her choice if she decides to leave.
I also asked if she really wants to quit if she would consider playing at least one more session so the other players can say goodbye to her character and her.
I'm also a bit anxious since her sister is also a player in the campaign, so I hope I don't lose two players all of a sudden.
Does anyone have any tips or advise how to handle this?
If she leaves, should I dedicate a session after it with my players to talk about this to see how they feel about this? Or to poll if they feel the same about their backstories or the pacing?
Transparency.
A simple word, but I have found it to be the best. Check with the player in question and ask if they are happy with you sharing the message or the news, or if they'd like to break the news themselves. Try to emphasise to everyone that there's no hard feelings. Offer to leave a door open for return. Offer them the ability to write their exit. Ask if they'd return for a partial session just to bid farewell to the party. Getting the player in question involved in that way can emphasise that you care about them and their character to both the player and the party.
If they refuse those offers, explain to the party as best you can. Explain you left an open door for their return. Explain that you don't feel animosity (if that is true).
Whatever happens, I would dedicate at least part of a session to the farewell both in and out of character. Take your lead from your players. If they roleplay the loss of said character and wrap up relatively quickly you can move on, but don't force them to end that roleplay.
You seem to have run into the problem of planning too tightly. If you plan too tightly you paint yourself into a corner. You can't move any clues to solve puzzles, you can't move NPCs or items. So, if something happens the whole plan falls to pieces. If you plan too loose you've got no idea what is where or how to deliver a good session. In all honesty, it sounds like you've planned a little too far and a little too tightly. So, either rework your planning or throw away the stuff contingent on the PC leaving.
Finally, conversations with your players are never a bad things. Polls are really useful for gather information without identifying players. I personally find open conversations are better though.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Somewhat paradoxically, if you want to throw surprise twists at your players, you need to run it by them first. That isn't to say that you need to give the player all the details and spoil the secret, but you do need to tell them enough to get them to buy into the idea of your secret.
I'm having a little trouble following your example of what went wrong, but it sounds to me like the problem is the player came all this way to meet with an npc and is upset that the npc stood her up. If I knew the player's goal was to get to X location to meet Y npc, but I the DM wanted to shake it up and instead direct her towards Z location to meet two different npc's for drama purposes, I would take that player aside or text them something along the lines of "hey, heads up, I had an idea for your character when you reach X location. Are you OK if I take the reins for a bit there? I promise I have something planned."
If the player think that sounds cool then awesome, no problem, but if the player says "idk I REALLY wanted to talk to Y", then also cool, now you know that the player is really invested in meeting with Y and you can leave that part untouched.
When at all possible, you should give players a say in how their story unfolds, as ultimately this is a collaborative storytelling game.
I'll echo, because it's worth stressing: transparent communication is the way to go.
It sounds like your player has been unhappy for a while, but may not have known she could say something about it - or felt comfortable saying it. Even with the most friendly and collaborative DMs, sometimes players will keep quiet because they don't want to seem confrontational or critical. The way around that is to ask them frequently for feedback and offer suggestions for potential changes rather than relying on them to bring it up.
At this point, you might be able to convince her to hang in there for your plans or she might be convinced nothing will change to her liking. In either case, I would strongly recommend you do a temperature check with each of your players privately just to make sure they're happy with how things are going. Questions like, "What interests you most/least about the campaign so far? What are you looking forward to doing next in-game? Do you have any plans or ideas for your character? Would you like a backstory arc?" help you gauge people's feelings and plan ahead without forcing people to make value judgments about your DMing. I actually make digital surveys for my players and send it to them yearly in addition to doing informal check-ins.
Best of luck!
Yeah, communication is a ig deal.
One way to look at it is the whole "The Journey is the joy" angle:
They can know that at the end of this point there will be something there. The point isn't that they get there, it is how they get there.
Some of my 20 something and 30 something players really like when I do romance angles. They are never something I foist on anyone, but they love them, both between players and with NPCs. I suck so bad at romance that I took a class in writing it (and failed. I failed a class I paid for.) Nevertheless, I put in romances -- and they often don't move fast enough for them because they are low on my priority list, so I have to have notes and I have to talk to them.
Yes, you will meet the Baron again, but, I mean, you are currently 1500 miles away in the middle of a goblin warren, and while he could teleport to you, it would leave his realm under risk of attack.
This despite knowing that the baron didn't care and is riding to her rescue because he thinks she shouldn't be an adventurer.
Talk to them. Not just the upset one, but all of them.
This game is best when everyone is a part of it.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I'll echo the other comments. Transparency and communications.
Also, the DM needs to pay close attention to the social interactions of the game. Are these people you know in person or just through online connections? How well do you know them and the other things that may be going on in their lives.
Very rarely will someone quit a game because their PC is unable to meet up with an NPC at a specific location or even because some character centric story line is moving too slowly.
The main reasons someone might quit are typically not character related.
- real life commitments. Is school/work/social life outside of the game becoming a bigger factor. Friday night is often a night for going out depending on the age group involved so perhaps they want to do something else with their Fridays but don't want to disrupt the rest of the group?
- real life social interactions. Is there an issue between the player and one or more other players outside of the game that you might not be aware of?
- uncomfortable social game content. You mention this is a "heavy" role playing group. Sometimes this "role-playing" can stray too close to the real world especially where treatment of women, minority groups, and other content that could include innuendo, be misinterpreted, or be said in character but could be interpreted as being addressed to the player. This kind of thing can make some players uncomfortable/angry/etc but they may not want to speak up and ask it to stop due to peer pressure and fear of how others may react so they might choose to leave the game. (This can include comments by the DM, behaviour of NPCs, and the possibility of perceived favoritism in plot or treatment of different characters).
- real life peer pressure or other outside interactions. Parents might complain about them spending Friday nights on a computer. Friends or significant others might not like or understand role playing games and make them feel bad for playing. Someone in their lives might be jealous of their time spent with other friends.
- the player may just have gotten tired of the game, is finding the plotline stale or boring, and just can't find the enthusiasm they once had for playing. This can indicate that maybe they just need to take a break and try something new.
Figuring out why someone wants to quit a game after several years of play which they apparently enjoyed is both challenging and fraught with pitfalls. However, in my experience, the game content by itself is rarely the motivating factor, especially if they have been enjoying playing.
P.S. I'd also agree with Aquilain, it sounds like your campaign may have become more of a railroad. When you set up events in detail with certain things in certain places, it is predicated on the assumption that the character/player will follow along the breadcrumbs and do exactly what is expected. The characters have a world presented to them, they should get to choose where to go and whether that includes following up on backstory elements immediately, eventually or never.