I'm a new DM running The Lost Mine of Phandelver for a group of new players.
My party skipped the goblin hideout and burned down most of the rebrand hideout long story so they have almost no gear, are broke from buying oil, and still have know idea that cragmaw and Nezznar exist.
My solution to this is to add a side quest. If the players go poking through the ashes of Tresendar manor they will be teleported into a future dungeon where Nezznar has won and is preparing for war against the sword coast.
Nezznar has ripped a hole through time and is gathering futuristic weapons which the characters can loot.
If the characters escape the dungeon they will find the town under his control. However, with a little digging they can uncover a rebellion headed by a mysterious character in a black robe. This npc is actually the future version of one the players. A successful perception check can identify this. Obviously what they do from there is the pcs' choice
Is this idea worth it? Any ideas?
A second key part is Nezznar treasure room where a want to put a bunch of insane magic items Hopefully the characters will only get a chance to grab one or two. I want to insure that all of these have downsides like the DoMT. Any other ideas.
Edit to clear some things up: The pcs aren't super motivated to actually complete the adventure and as a new DM I would rather not have to figure that out. Plus there are some extra details that would help motivate the back stabbing rogue.
That’s an interesting approach but think that might be a waaaay more complicated and convoluted than needs be, particularly at this early level. A lot of the info you can have them pick up from talking to the townsfolk’s and the quests they can pick up from them.
IIRC Darrin Edermath specifically knows about cragmaw and the goblins being there, if not the Druid in Thundertree definitely does and asks the party to clear it out.
You could pretty easily plant some clues in the orc base too, have the note from next at be there and the orcs were working for him as well.
with the old owl well mission, make It that the necromancer is there researching wave echo cave and has some info on it they can give the party for the right enticement.
Equipment really shouldn’t be to much of an issue at this stage but if they are really set on getting some new gear, they can buy some in town, you can get them some gold easy enough by the town master posting some local jobs they can pick up, it’s what he does in the next adventure Ice Spire Peak anyways. Maybe some wolves are terrorizing a local sheep farmer, a band of gnolls has been spotted nearby, that kind of thing.
Thanks for the suggestions. I edited my original post with a small amount of additional info.
The biggest issue is more motivation. Mainly for the rogue as I have been encouraging the pcs to play as there characters more and the rogue would probably do something like stab Gundren for giving them trouble and then trying to get them to help him more.
I just wanted to say that I really liked your time traveling idea. I found it very creative/interesting.
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DM, writer, and blog master of https://dragonencounters.com/ a blog dedicated to providing unusual, worthwhile encounters for each monster, making each one unique.
Also, suggestions for which monsters might be found together (for people tired of dungeons full of one humanoid race, and perhaps a few beasts and undead.)
Thanks for the suggestions. I edited my original post with a small amount of additional info.
The biggest issue is more motivation. Mainly for the rogue as I have been encouraging the pcs to play as there characters more and the rogue would probably do something like stab Gundren for giving them trouble and then trying to get them to help him more.
Ok, so this is interesting for me because it rings incredibly similar to how things started with MY party when I started DMing for the first time a year ago, also starting with LMoP. You basically have two options.. If the players aren't being motivated or interested in completing the adventure you either have to provide incentives to motivate them or scrap it all together and come up with something new, like you are doing.
In my case what happened was I have a couple players that are playing as chaotic neutral and weren't motivated to go after gundren by just the impetus to do good. I was able to motivate them with the prospect of more gold and a stake in wave echo cave (which is one of the possible rewards at the end RAW, I just laid down a suggestion that a grateful gundren might see fit to reward them with something like that).
If you don't think that would work, I think your time travel idea is fun and also an interesting way of making the point that actions, or lack of actions in this case, have consequences, which could serve you well down the line. I would think through the various variables and permutations that would go in to arriving at the scenario and how it has impacted the world they find themselves in. How far in the future is it, so how long has Nezznar had to build an army and scheme? How far has his influence and control reached? Is it just Phandalin or beyond? Is it far enough to have caught Neverwinters attention? That kind of thing. It is a VERY specific scenario that has occurred, and one that deviates significantly from the lore you are building from, so, at least if it were me, I would want to pretty pretty clearly have what all happened to get to that point mapped at least in a somewhat detailed general way. If you are going to use the existing NPC's have an idea of what has happened to them between now and then, especially if they are NPC's the party has already interacted with.
One thing I would be very hesitant about is the aspect of them meeting a future version of one of the players. That is a great trope in tv and movies, but could be VERY problematic in a case where you would, assumedly, be playing the future version with the player playing their current version. You could find yourself bogged down in question and issues of causality and paradoxes, all that kind of stuff. I was part of a campaign years ago where the DM tried something pretty similar and to say the whole thing turned in to a mess would be an understatement!
I would wonder what the discussion was during your session zero, if you had one, about the parties motivations and backstories and how they came together? When planning things out, that's something to keep front of mind and you can adjust things upfront to better feed their motivations. If they are not planning on playing as a straight up good heroes saving the day because its the right thing to do, a module like Phandelver RAW isn't a great fit because a lot of it is predicated on the assumption characters will do certain things because it is the right thing to do. If that's not the parties motivations, make things more mercenary, they are hired by people to do the job, or maybe connect the rockseekers to someone's back story so there is a personal drive to do things.
I'm a new DM running The Lost Mine of Phandelver for a group of new players.
My party skipped the goblin hideout and burned down most of the rebrand hideout
long storyso they have almost no gear, are broke from buying oil, and still have know idea that cragmaw and Nezznar exist.My solution to this is to add a side quest. If the players go poking through the ashes of Tresendar manor they will be teleported into a future dungeon where Nezznar has won and is preparing for war against the sword coast.
Nezznar has ripped a hole through time and is gathering futuristic weapons which the characters can loot.
If the characters escape the dungeon they will find the town under his control. However, with a little digging they can uncover a rebellion headed by a mysterious character in a black robe. This npc is actually the future version of one the players. A successful perception check can identify this. Obviously what they do from there is the pcs' choice
Is this idea worth it? Any ideas?
A second key part is Nezznar treasure room where a want to put a bunch of insane magic items
Hopefully the characters will only get a chance to grab one or two. I want to insure that all of these have downsides like the DoMT. Any other ideas.Edit to clear some things up: The pcs aren't super motivated to actually complete the adventure and as a new DM I would rather not have to figure that out. Plus there are some extra details that would help motivate the back stabbing rogue.
That’s an interesting approach but think that might be a waaaay more complicated and convoluted than needs be, particularly at this early level. A lot of the info you can have them pick up from talking to the townsfolk’s and the quests they can pick up from them.
IIRC Darrin Edermath specifically knows about cragmaw and the goblins being there, if not the Druid in Thundertree definitely does and asks the party to clear it out.
You could pretty easily plant some clues in the orc base too, have the note from next at be there and the orcs were working for him as well.
with the old owl well mission, make It that the necromancer is there researching wave echo cave and has some info on it they can give the party for the right enticement.
Equipment really shouldn’t be to much of an issue at this stage but if they are really set on getting some new gear, they can buy some in town, you can get them some gold easy enough by the town master posting some local jobs they can pick up, it’s what he does in the next adventure Ice Spire Peak anyways. Maybe some wolves are terrorizing a local sheep farmer, a band of gnolls has been spotted nearby, that kind of thing.
Thanks for the suggestions. I edited my original post with a small amount of additional info.
The biggest issue is more motivation. Mainly for the rogue as I have been encouraging the pcs to play as there characters more and the rogue would probably do something like stab Gundren for giving them trouble and then trying to get them to help him more.
I just wanted to say that I really liked your time traveling idea. I found it very creative/interesting.
DM, writer, and blog master of https://dragonencounters.com/ a blog dedicated to providing unusual, worthwhile encounters for each monster, making each one unique.
Also, suggestions for which monsters might be found together (for people tired of dungeons full of one humanoid race, and perhaps a few beasts and undead.)
Ok, so this is interesting for me because it rings incredibly similar to how things started with MY party when I started DMing for the first time a year ago, also starting with LMoP. You basically have two options.. If the players aren't being motivated or interested in completing the adventure you either have to provide incentives to motivate them or scrap it all together and come up with something new, like you are doing.
In my case what happened was I have a couple players that are playing as chaotic neutral and weren't motivated to go after gundren by just the impetus to do good. I was able to motivate them with the prospect of more gold and a stake in wave echo cave (which is one of the possible rewards at the end RAW, I just laid down a suggestion that a grateful gundren might see fit to reward them with something like that).
If you don't think that would work, I think your time travel idea is fun and also an interesting way of making the point that actions, or lack of actions in this case, have consequences, which could serve you well down the line. I would think through the various variables and permutations that would go in to arriving at the scenario and how it has impacted the world they find themselves in. How far in the future is it, so how long has Nezznar had to build an army and scheme? How far has his influence and control reached? Is it just Phandalin or beyond? Is it far enough to have caught Neverwinters attention? That kind of thing. It is a VERY specific scenario that has occurred, and one that deviates significantly from the lore you are building from, so, at least if it were me, I would want to pretty pretty clearly have what all happened to get to that point mapped at least in a somewhat detailed general way. If you are going to use the existing NPC's have an idea of what has happened to them between now and then, especially if they are NPC's the party has already interacted with.
One thing I would be very hesitant about is the aspect of them meeting a future version of one of the players. That is a great trope in tv and movies, but could be VERY problematic in a case where you would, assumedly, be playing the future version with the player playing their current version. You could find yourself bogged down in question and issues of causality and paradoxes, all that kind of stuff. I was part of a campaign years ago where the DM tried something pretty similar and to say the whole thing turned in to a mess would be an understatement!
I would wonder what the discussion was during your session zero, if you had one, about the parties motivations and backstories and how they came together? When planning things out, that's something to keep front of mind and you can adjust things upfront to better feed their motivations. If they are not planning on playing as a straight up good heroes saving the day because its the right thing to do, a module like Phandelver RAW isn't a great fit because a lot of it is predicated on the assumption characters will do certain things because it is the right thing to do. If that's not the parties motivations, make things more mercenary, they are hired by people to do the job, or maybe connect the rockseekers to someone's back story so there is a personal drive to do things.