Have any of you ever spent time specifically observing other DM's and their groups specifically with intent to learn?
I don't mean high-production, highly polished, online tables with voice actors--but those amazing tables who are in the trenches for years or decades and have a solid group of players who have been playing for a long time.
In my real profession, observation of others is a critical component to learning, and I would love to just observe a group (and provide feedback to the DM)--but I don't really see requests like this in any forum.
Have any of you intentionally done this? Thoughts?
When I was a regular at my FLGS I got to observer three or four other DMs and how they ran their games (DnD4e and Pathfinder to be exact). I do think observation is a good learning tool but is very limited in what can be learned. Being a good DM can only be achieved by actually doing it. By adjudicating rules questions while trying to keep the action alive.
The other issue is people behave differently when being observed. So if it is a situation outside a FLGS it is just awkward. Better to play a cameo role at the table so your presence is adding to the experience instead of distracting
My mainstay has always been running games in FLGS, or for groups. I've had a few occasions to watch other real-world GMs run their games. In fact I joined a GM-only group where we workshop and playtest a lot of stuff.
The only real observation I would make is that a table's approach to a game is more than just the GM. In fact the players can swing the GM's style massively. This is the real takeaway - no two groups or tables are the same.
For example, I witnessed the same GM run a game for three sets of players. Group 1 HATED that the GM rolled their dice in the open because 'it breaks immersion in the game'. Group 2 thought it was a great way to run a hardcore game because there can be no fudging. Group 3 actively asked him to hide his dice rolls in future because they realised that by the second roll they knew a lot about the enemies and so felt they were meta-gaming.
This example is a perfect illustration to me of why it's a mistake to sweepingly say 'All GMs should roll in the open' or conversely 'all GM rolls should be hidden.
Similarly, I've tried stealing GM techniques and applying them to my own games and sat wondering why it didn't work well - turns out I was GMing for different players. The vibe and opinions held by the group were entirely different.
I think a lot can be learnt from fellow GMs, but ultimately the results can vary wildly. Moreover, what I would do in any given situation doesn't provide useful feedback for other GMs. Me telling the other GM to roll their dice behind a screen 'because that's how I think it's best done' is not good critique.
What I do think is genuinely helpful is a GM group who set out to learn more about the systems they are running. For example, my GM test group recently ran Vecna Eve of Ruin and a few other official high level adventures. Our aim as a group was to understand and discuss why WotC had designed the adventures in that way and what lessons we could learn from them. My personal viewpoint is that WotC's writers often get stuck when dealing with anything past level 12. Working through as a group and discussing environmental effects without saving throws, or items that are written specifically to get around the abilities and spells that characters have gained allowed us to seriously discuss the mechanical side of the game. Did we think these techniques for higher level play were fair?
All of us took our thoughts back to our respective regular groups and got our players' feedback. Coming back together we were somewhat surprised that most of the player feedback appeared to be similar. The Crown of Lies was wildly unpopular amongst players who saw it as a lazy solution to detect magic or suchlike.
How we all choose to handle similar adventure designs in future will likely depend on the players we have sitting at those tables, but we got good insight into the mechanics that perhaps we didn't have before.
Howdy--question for you all.
Have any of you ever spent time specifically observing other DM's and their groups specifically with intent to learn?
I don't mean high-production, highly polished, online tables with voice actors--but those amazing tables who are in the trenches for years or decades and have a solid group of players who have been playing for a long time.
In my real profession, observation of others is a critical component to learning, and I would love to just observe a group (and provide feedback to the DM)--but I don't really see requests like this in any forum.
Have any of you intentionally done this? Thoughts?
When I was a regular at my FLGS I got to observer three or four other DMs and how they ran their games (DnD4e and Pathfinder to be exact). I do think observation is a good learning tool but is very limited in what can be learned. Being a good DM can only be achieved by actually doing it. By adjudicating rules questions while trying to keep the action alive.
The other issue is people behave differently when being observed. So if it is a situation outside a FLGS it is just awkward. Better to play a cameo role at the table so your presence is adding to the experience instead of distracting
My mainstay has always been running games in FLGS, or for groups. I've had a few occasions to watch other real-world GMs run their games. In fact I joined a GM-only group where we workshop and playtest a lot of stuff.
The only real observation I would make is that a table's approach to a game is more than just the GM. In fact the players can swing the GM's style massively. This is the real takeaway - no two groups or tables are the same.
For example, I witnessed the same GM run a game for three sets of players. Group 1 HATED that the GM rolled their dice in the open because 'it breaks immersion in the game'. Group 2 thought it was a great way to run a hardcore game because there can be no fudging. Group 3 actively asked him to hide his dice rolls in future because they realised that by the second roll they knew a lot about the enemies and so felt they were meta-gaming.
This example is a perfect illustration to me of why it's a mistake to sweepingly say 'All GMs should roll in the open' or conversely 'all GM rolls should be hidden.
Similarly, I've tried stealing GM techniques and applying them to my own games and sat wondering why it didn't work well - turns out I was GMing for different players. The vibe and opinions held by the group were entirely different.
I think a lot can be learnt from fellow GMs, but ultimately the results can vary wildly. Moreover, what I would do in any given situation doesn't provide useful feedback for other GMs. Me telling the other GM to roll their dice behind a screen 'because that's how I think it's best done' is not good critique.
What I do think is genuinely helpful is a GM group who set out to learn more about the systems they are running. For example, my GM test group recently ran Vecna Eve of Ruin and a few other official high level adventures. Our aim as a group was to understand and discuss why WotC had designed the adventures in that way and what lessons we could learn from them. My personal viewpoint is that WotC's writers often get stuck when dealing with anything past level 12. Working through as a group and discussing environmental effects without saving throws, or items that are written specifically to get around the abilities and spells that characters have gained allowed us to seriously discuss the mechanical side of the game. Did we think these techniques for higher level play were fair?
All of us took our thoughts back to our respective regular groups and got our players' feedback. Coming back together we were somewhat surprised that most of the player feedback appeared to be similar. The Crown of Lies was wildly unpopular amongst players who saw it as a lazy solution to detect magic or suchlike.
How we all choose to handle similar adventure designs in future will likely depend on the players we have sitting at those tables, but we got good insight into the mechanics that perhaps we didn't have before.
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