So my players just finished the adventure "Keep on the Shadowfell" that I adapted to 5e. They killed Kalarel and successfully closed the portal to the Shadowfell. Now, one of my players, a Shadow Monk, wants to claim Shadowfell Keep as his own, with it being the party's main base for the rest of their campaign and the rest of the party likes that idea. If this was just a normal keep, I would have no problem with it but there are two issues here:
1) The connection to the Shadowfell is so strong here that it even drove it's previous owner, Sir Keegan the Paladin, mad. 2) Shadowfell Keep is MASSIVE in size when compared to other keeps in D&D 5e. Should it even be given to Lv6 characters?
As such, I'm stuck at a junction as to whether I should grant them the keep. If I do, it could potential make their characters go crazy but if I don't, I feel like I'm taking away from their epic reward for completing that adventure.
The biggest issue that I see is the threat of madness. Maybe closing the portal reduced that effect? Maybe it takes years for it to drive the characters mad? Are they aware of that facet of the Keep? Maybe just ensure that they’re never there for long if they seem that attached to it, or provide a quest for an individual/item that could make the Keep more habitable by the sane. Or you could just have the next big bad show up and claim it, or destroy it. Maybe the players feel a little robbed, but it gives them motivation for the next chapter.
Before my players left for the Keep after their first trip back to town, the wizard did inform them of the madness that gripped Sir Keegan. If they don't remember, maybe I'll have them find a book in the Keep's library (one of my characters is a wizard who cleans out every book he sees so I'll know he'll search for it).
I do like that idea for a quest for an item to make the keep more habitable. Considering that the campaign is one I was going to have dabble in the Shadowfell, maybe I could have them travel there to determine if a specific creature is causing the madness and destroy it. It would get them out of the Keep, give them a good chance to level up and provide a good opportunity to plant some more Shadowfell plot hooks before I get to the final adventure with Orcus.
Looks like you had some good suggestions for the madness
Regarding the massive size of the keep... maybe the local overlord will send a contingent to either dispute their claim or share responsibility of rebuilding it (depending on how you want to run it)
or have the characters have to overcome 2 or 3 challenges over the next 3 or 4 levels? as they rise in level, present a higher and higher threat to their ownership.
a local orc tribe puts the keep under seige a dragon attacks because it wants a new residence or... the shadow side attempts to invade again etc
also, don't forget that you can use it as a money sink to peel off all that gold they find... did they just score a hoard of 2000gp, well skilled hirelings (professional soldiers) are 2gp per day!!!
I would keep the madness TBH. Just make it a slow process. As they sleep in the keep overnight they hear whispers in their dreams and the dreams are veiled in pure darkness. As time goes on the veil of darkness slowly lifts from their dreams and they start seeing Lovecraftian style of dreams as the madness slowly starts to sink in. You did warn them of the dangers of the keep after all and now they have to live with the consequences of their actions. You could make a magical item that helps alleviate the curse from the keep but that's solely up to you. I personally like making a couple of my PC's go mad especially when they are huge on RP.
If you desire you can always make it a temporary madness, so that it will only affect them while they are close to the keep and lift when they get their distance for a time but if they continue to use it eventually it will set in as a permanent madness trait. I may have to use that now that I think about it... Could be tons of fun to play with. Thanks for the idea!
That's a good point about the hireling cost, notrich. I had forgotten how expensive having that hired help would be so.
I like those idea of the Dragon and the Overlord coming to dispute their claim over the keep. Maybe I'll have the Overlord's forces show up and whilst the adventurers are arguing with them, the Dragon tries to take the Keep by force. Although the adventures will be able to repel the Dragon (cos I can have the dragon retreat after a bit), it would give the adventurers a choice: 1) Go after the Dragon to take its horde but leave the Keep open to the Overlord's forces. 2) Remain at the Keep to prevent the Overlord from laying claim to it but have the Dragon continue to hassle the Keep.
As for ToraLink, I'm glad this thread gave you some ideas and your idea about the maddening dreams sounds like a good way to start the Shadowfell section of my campaign. Plus, that's a good point about the madness, it may recede the longer they're away from the Keep. But the workers might not have that luxury...
Let's say you are able to round up a number of professionals to the tune of 100 troops (as defenders it might make sense to go heavy on archers and would keep armor costs down). That would be around 200gp per day (or 6000gp per month). Ouch! that may be too much
If they are not that well off, then maybe 10 skilled warriors at 20gp per day (or 600gp for a 30 day month) and then hire 100 unskilled archers at 200sp per day (or 600gp per month).
You may need to work out the local villages and how much they would be able to offer in kind (materials or people or money per day/month). Have there contributions build over time as they protect each village from a particular threat (be it bandits or monsters). There is a famous kickstarter that is putting out a book shortly about strongholds or you can just make up your own stuff in the meantime).
Maybe I'll have the Overlord's forces show up and whilst the adventurers are arguing with them, the Dragon tries to take the Keep by force.
If the overlord is there (or his trusted main man), a third option to your list AFTER fighting off the dragon together would be... wow, you dudes are no joke! Okay, you know what? Give us 10% of your holdings produce each month. Any time the value your holdings production is less than 800gp - you make up the difference... or else. I will leave these 10 skilled troops (worth 600gp per month) here to help you defend the place and setup patrols. We will be back in a month.
ps - this last one works even better storywise if any of the characters have a noble background
I would use this as the thing that your players do when not doing the rest of the campaign. Turn it into a minigame if you think they'll like that (not all players will). Ever pplay Dungeon Keeper? Yeah...
1) They've cleared out the Keep and closed the portal. Great...now what? Well unless they run off and TELL someone the fact that they own the keep is a secret for now, right? So no overlords or dragons to show up and claim it...yet. However they also can't go swaggering into the local town bragging about it either. It's like having a warehouse full of stuff after the end of the world...you can benefit from it best if you DON'T advertise.
2) The Keep was under the effect of the portal for SO LONG that it might have contaminated the place. So now they need to cast a super-Hallow spell over every inch to purify it. That'll take a LONG time and until it's done, THINGS might happen. You know...THINGS. Nightmares if they sleep there too long. Is there a cemetery nearby? Yep...Undead Walking right there.
3) What if the Keep itself is alive? I could do a whole campaign on just THAT.
4) As has been mentioned we're talking a MAJOR outlay of cash to staff and protect this thing. That being said, what if only a few of the rooms are available right away? The use Hallow (or whatever you want) to purify enough that they can stay there but most of the Keep is still corrupted and dangerous. As they gain money and power, they go through and spread their influence. That way they only need enough guards for the part they use.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So my players just finished the adventure "Keep on the Shadowfell" that I adapted to 5e. They killed Kalarel and successfully closed the portal to the Shadowfell. Now, one of my players, a Shadow Monk, wants to claim Shadowfell Keep as his own, with it being the party's main base for the rest of their campaign and the rest of the party likes that idea. If this was just a normal keep, I would have no problem with it but there are two issues here:
1) The connection to the Shadowfell is so strong here that it even drove it's previous owner, Sir Keegan the Paladin, mad.
2) Shadowfell Keep is MASSIVE in size when compared to other keeps in D&D 5e. Should it even be given to Lv6 characters?
As such, I'm stuck at a junction as to whether I should grant them the keep. If I do, it could potential make their characters go crazy but if I don't, I feel like I'm taking away from their epic reward for completing that adventure.
What does everyone else think?
The biggest issue that I see is the threat of madness. Maybe closing the portal reduced that effect? Maybe it takes years for it to drive the characters mad? Are they aware of that facet of the Keep? Maybe just ensure that they’re never there for long if they seem that attached to it, or provide a quest for an individual/item that could make the Keep more habitable by the sane. Or you could just have the next big bad show up and claim it, or destroy it. Maybe the players feel a little robbed, but it gives them motivation for the next chapter.
Before my players left for the Keep after their first trip back to town, the wizard did inform them of the madness that gripped Sir Keegan. If they don't remember, maybe I'll have them find a book in the Keep's library (one of my characters is a wizard who cleans out every book he sees so I'll know he'll search for it).
I do like that idea for a quest for an item to make the keep more habitable. Considering that the campaign is one I was going to have dabble in the Shadowfell, maybe I could have them travel there to determine if a specific creature is causing the madness and destroy it. It would get them out of the Keep, give them a good chance to level up and provide a good opportunity to plant some more Shadowfell plot hooks before I get to the final adventure with Orcus.
Thanks for the suggestions, SwanSquad.
Looks like you had some good suggestions for the madness
Regarding the massive size of the keep... maybe the local overlord will send a contingent to either dispute their claim or share responsibility of rebuilding it (depending on how you want to run it)
or have the characters have to overcome 2 or 3 challenges over the next 3 or 4 levels? as they rise in level, present a higher and higher threat to their ownership.
a local orc tribe puts the keep under seige
a dragon attacks because it wants a new residence
or... the shadow side attempts to invade again
etc
also, don't forget that you can use it as a money sink to peel off all that gold they find... did they just score a hoard of 2000gp, well skilled hirelings (professional soldiers) are 2gp per day!!!
I would keep the madness TBH. Just make it a slow process. As they sleep in the keep overnight they hear whispers in their dreams and the dreams are veiled in pure darkness. As time goes on the veil of darkness slowly lifts from their dreams and they start seeing Lovecraftian style of dreams as the madness slowly starts to sink in. You did warn them of the dangers of the keep after all and now they have to live with the consequences of their actions. You could make a magical item that helps alleviate the curse from the keep but that's solely up to you. I personally like making a couple of my PC's go mad especially when they are huge on RP.
If you desire you can always make it a temporary madness, so that it will only affect them while they are close to the keep and lift when they get their distance for a time but if they continue to use it eventually it will set in as a permanent madness trait. I may have to use that now that I think about it... Could be tons of fun to play with. Thanks for the idea!
Self Righteous Paladin: "That much power corrupts a man."
Random Bard: "Power is just a tool. How you use it doesn't change that fact. It just shows the purest form of your desires."
That's a good point about the hireling cost, notrich. I had forgotten how expensive having that hired help would be so.
I like those idea of the Dragon and the Overlord coming to dispute their claim over the keep. Maybe I'll have the Overlord's forces show up and whilst the adventurers are arguing with them, the Dragon tries to take the Keep by force. Although the adventures will be able to repel the Dragon (cos I can have the dragon retreat after a bit), it would give the adventurers a choice:
1) Go after the Dragon to take its horde but leave the Keep open to the Overlord's forces.
2) Remain at the Keep to prevent the Overlord from laying claim to it but have the Dragon continue to hassle the Keep.
As for ToraLink, I'm glad this thread gave you some ideas and your idea about the maddening dreams sounds like a good way to start the Shadowfell section of my campaign. Plus, that's a good point about the madness, it may recede the longer they're away from the Keep. But the workers might not have that luxury...
Let's say you are able to round up a number of professionals to the tune of 100 troops (as defenders it might make sense to go heavy on archers and would keep armor costs down). That would be around 200gp per day (or 6000gp per month). Ouch! that may be too much
If they are not that well off, then maybe 10 skilled warriors at 20gp per day (or 600gp for a 30 day month) and then hire 100 unskilled archers at 200sp per day (or 600gp per month).
You may need to work out the local villages and how much they would be able to offer in kind (materials or people or money per day/month). Have there contributions build over time as they protect each village from a particular threat (be it bandits or monsters). There is a famous kickstarter that is putting out a book shortly about strongholds or you can just make up your own stuff in the meantime).
If the overlord is there (or his trusted main man), a third option to your list AFTER fighting off the dragon together would be... wow, you dudes are no joke! Okay, you know what? Give us 10% of your holdings produce each month. Any time the value your holdings production is less than 800gp - you make up the difference... or else. I will leave these 10 skilled troops (worth 600gp per month) here to help you defend the place and setup patrols. We will be back in a month.
ps - this last one works even better storywise if any of the characters have a noble background
I would use this as the thing that your players do when not doing the rest of the campaign. Turn it into a minigame if you think they'll like that (not all players will). Ever pplay Dungeon Keeper? Yeah...
1) They've cleared out the Keep and closed the portal. Great...now what? Well unless they run off and TELL someone the fact that they own the keep is a secret for now, right? So no overlords or dragons to show up and claim it...yet. However they also can't go swaggering into the local town bragging about it either. It's like having a warehouse full of stuff after the end of the world...you can benefit from it best if you DON'T advertise.
2) The Keep was under the effect of the portal for SO LONG that it might have contaminated the place. So now they need to cast a super-Hallow spell over every inch to purify it. That'll take a LONG time and until it's done, THINGS might happen. You know...THINGS. Nightmares if they sleep there too long. Is there a cemetery nearby? Yep...Undead Walking right there.
3) What if the Keep itself is alive? I could do a whole campaign on just THAT.
4) As has been mentioned we're talking a MAJOR outlay of cash to staff and protect this thing. That being said, what if only a few of the rooms are available right away? The use Hallow (or whatever you want) to purify enough that they can stay there but most of the Keep is still corrupted and dangerous. As they gain money and power, they go through and spread their influence. That way they only need enough guards for the part they use.