So I'm a fairly moderate DM, I've done a quite a few games and I think I'm experienced enough to run a decent game. I've got a friend who is also a DM and I've joined into his game because I have suffered from ForeverDM disease for too long. It started out really well, with a lot of great interactions between PCs and with NPCs. It was a lot of fun. WAS is the big word here.
He's sort of shifted into this unprepared, spur of the moment deal. He's mentioned a few times that he's been winging the last sessions and it shows. Before we'd always have something to do and have tons of interesting NPCs to interact with. Now everything is incredibly barren and there are long periods of us doing nothing. We barely earn any gold or even the means of using what we have. He doesn't make combat encounter maps, which has made combat a bit of a messy cluster. Encounters have become one enemy that stands stationary, has really high defense, can take hits for days otherwise, and usually one shots most of us. The worst case of the last point was a single enemy who had 100 HP, an AC of 20, and was able do everything our Cleric could do twice as good with none of the restrictions. This fight alone took us 2 hours to barely finish This sort of stuff started about half way in since our last session (Today).
And it's obvious that no one is having as much fun as they did since the start. Before, we all couldn't help but glow from the experience but now, we all kind of get really quiet and unresponsive. For the longer fights, people get clearly annoyed. Nothing feels like a victory anymore.
Should I try offering him some advice? Maybe offer to help him with assets and stuff? Like nothing spoiler territory but just try and get him back on track. Or should I just wait it out and let him do him? I really care about his game because it started so well and I really want everyone to go back to being as expressive and lively as they were. It has been bumming me out. I'd love any advice you peeps can offer or any similar stories and what you guys did. I can also elaborate on things if that helps to.
I really appreciate anything, even the people who just read this.
(UPDATE)
I was able to get some time to talk to him. It was short but pretty enlightening to hear. He's decided to cancel the games, at least for the time being, because some situations in his life have taken his focus. It wasn't great to hear because I would've preferred to continue because, regardless of all I said, I still enjoyed the people there and wanted the best BUT life takes focus here.
I wouldn't open with advice, however sincerely given.
I'd start by expressing your observations and opinions on what's currently happening in the frame of "I see this is happening. This is not fun." Do this one on one first. Allow the DM to explain why it has devolved to this. Maybe life got busy? Only after this, should you then offer assistance based on what he's said. If, however, he denies or rejects your view, you should ask the rest of the group for their opinions. If they are sufficiently united in "this is not fun", bring this together to the DM to show that you are all not having fun. In all of this, the aim is not to do a coup, but rather, to see if any adjustments or assistance could make the experience more fun for everyone. So your attitude, unless he's really stubborn, should be "It was fun before. This is not fun. How can we make it fun for everyone?"
I wouldn't open with advice, however sincerely given.
I'd start by expressing your observations and opinions on what's currently happening in the frame of "I see this is happening. This is not fun." Do this one on one first. Allow the DM to explain why it has devolved to this. Maybe life got busy? Only after this, should you then offer assistance based on what he's said. If, however, he denies or rejects your view, you should ask the rest of the group for their opinions. If they are sufficiently united in "this is not fun", bring this together to the DM to show that you are all not having fun. In all of this, the aim is not to do a coup, but rather, to see if any adjustments or assistance could make the experience more fun for everyone. So your attitude, unless he's really stubborn, should be "It was fun before. This is not fun. How can we make it fun for everyone?"
This is the tactic I would take. You could even talk to the group first to make sure you are not reading into the situation. I would definitely thank him for stepping up to be DM and express your appreciation for the early sessions. Mention that, for you, the sessions have not been as much fun recently and it had you wondering what brought about the change in preparation tactics for him. See if there is anything that he would like for you to do to help him out.
I have a group that we took a two year break and came back to it last month. Even though I had posted everyone's character sheets on an online group forum, no one had refreshed on their characters/ learned the new stuff that they had picked up when they gained a level. I don't hold that against them too much since I could have refreshed on my notes better. However, they haven't engaged me as much as I would like when offering resources or asking about their character's back story so I can work on some individual character arcs to weave through the main plot. Having that interaction would energize me, and have me excited to plan out encounters and flesh out NPCs a touch more. Check and see if he's had some similar experiences that might have him a little burned out, particularly if he's still figuring out his groove as a DM.
Adding to what the folks above have said, I would first see if there is something going on with your friend in "real life" (tm) that could be affecting their preparation/focus.
If they are a newer DM perhaps they started with a premade adventure (or parts of one) and are now struggling a bit in building their campaign world after. Definitely talk a bit first before going in and adding advice. Heck it could also just be DM growing pains that most, if not all, of us go through. Once you've opened a dialogue you can slowly get more information so that you may better approach the situation.
Good luck!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Others have covered it pretty well, but I’ll add this (hopefully not relevant) question: is this your friend’s first time DMing? I have seen players try DMing, start strong but dwindle later because their heart wasn’t in it. If your heart isn’t in it, you won’t put the time in to prepare a good game.
Anyone can DM, but not everyone enjoys it in the long run. I’m one of the weird ones that has been a DM and not a player for most of my D&D history (going back to the 80s), and have seen a lot of other DMs drop out because they simply prefer to be a player.
Adding to what the folks above have said, I would first see if there is something going on with your friend in "real life" (tm) that could be affecting their preparation/focus.
If they are a newer DM perhaps they started with a premade adventure (or parts of one) and are now struggling a bit in building their campaign world after. Definitely talk a bit first before going in and adding advice. Heck it could also just be DM growing pains that most, if not all, of us go through. Once you've opened a dialogue you can slowly get more information so that you may better approach the situation.
Good luck!
This isn't his first time DMing but he hasn't had a lot of experience. And I would say that is kind of how it goes for him, where you say they start out strong but dwindle later because their hearts weren't in it. I've only ever been in two of his games but I know he's a busy guy with a lot riding on him. I can't fault him for that obviously. That's why I mentioned the option of maybe offering to help make assets for the game.
There are other things he's been doing, like denying successful rolls if they would derail his story or ignore requests out of spite. Something that I didn't mention in the original post is that he gets really combative when we're all just hanging out and the players talk about things they're doing for their characters to make them stronger in combat. Example: I'm playing a swashbuckler rogue (it's the only archetype that fits the character) and I was joking about taking a few levels in fighter to be even more of a destroyer. He didn't take that well and sometimes would try denying me sneak attacks when I clearly could use it.
But all and all, I think you hit the nail on the head: He is pretty inexperienced and can't really put the time in. I'm still going to try and work with him If I can.
I also wanted to thank everyone for their advice so far!
I haven't had the time to talk to him before the next game but I'm going to shoot for it today and see what comes of it. Will probably post an update on here depending on what happens!
So I'm a fairly moderate DM, I've done a quite a few games and I think I'm experienced enough to run a decent game. I've got a friend who is also a DM and I've joined into his game because I have suffered from ForeverDM disease for too long. It started out really well, with a lot of great interactions between PCs and with NPCs. It was a lot of fun. WAS is the big word here.
He's sort of shifted into this unprepared, spur of the moment deal. He's mentioned a few times that he's been winging the last sessions and it shows. Before we'd always have something to do and have tons of interesting NPCs to interact with. Now everything is incredibly barren and there are long periods of us doing nothing. We barely earn any gold or even the means of using what we have. He doesn't make combat encounter maps, which has made combat a bit of a messy cluster. Encounters have become one enemy that stands stationary, has really high defense, can take hits for days otherwise, and usually one shots most of us. The worst case of the last point was a single enemy who had 100 HP, an AC of 20, and was able do everything our Cleric could do twice as good with none of the restrictions. This fight alone took us 2 hours to barely finish This sort of stuff started about half way in since our last session (Today).
And it's obvious that no one is having as much fun as they did since the start. Before, we all couldn't help but glow from the experience but now, we all kind of get really quiet and unresponsive. For the longer fights, people get clearly annoyed. Nothing feels like a victory anymore.
Should I try offering him some advice? Maybe offer to help him with assets and stuff? Like nothing spoiler territory but just try and get him back on track. Or should I just wait it out and let him do him? I really care about his game because it started so well and I really want everyone to go back to being as expressive and lively as they were. It has been bumming me out. I'd love any advice you peeps can offer or any similar stories and what you guys did. I can also elaborate on things if that helps to.
I really appreciate anything, even the people who just read this.
(UPDATE)
I was able to get some time to talk to him. It was short but pretty enlightening to hear. He's decided to cancel the games, at least for the time being, because some situations in his life have taken his focus. It wasn't great to hear because I would've preferred to continue because, regardless of all I said, I still enjoyed the people there and wanted the best BUT life takes focus here.
Thanks you to everyone who posted here.
I wouldn't open with advice, however sincerely given.
I'd start by expressing your observations and opinions on what's currently happening in the frame of "I see this is happening. This is not fun." Do this one on one first. Allow the DM to explain why it has devolved to this. Maybe life got busy? Only after this, should you then offer assistance based on what he's said. If, however, he denies or rejects your view, you should ask the rest of the group for their opinions. If they are sufficiently united in "this is not fun", bring this together to the DM to show that you are all not having fun. In all of this, the aim is not to do a coup, but rather, to see if any adjustments or assistance could make the experience more fun for everyone. So your attitude, unless he's really stubborn, should be "It was fun before. This is not fun. How can we make it fun for everyone?"
This is the tactic I would take. You could even talk to the group first to make sure you are not reading into the situation. I would definitely thank him for stepping up to be DM and express your appreciation for the early sessions. Mention that, for you, the sessions have not been as much fun recently and it had you wondering what brought about the change in preparation tactics for him. See if there is anything that he would like for you to do to help him out.
I have a group that we took a two year break and came back to it last month. Even though I had posted everyone's character sheets on an online group forum, no one had refreshed on their characters/ learned the new stuff that they had picked up when they gained a level. I don't hold that against them too much since I could have refreshed on my notes better. However, they haven't engaged me as much as I would like when offering resources or asking about their character's back story so I can work on some individual character arcs to weave through the main plot. Having that interaction would energize me, and have me excited to plan out encounters and flesh out NPCs a touch more. Check and see if he's had some similar experiences that might have him a little burned out, particularly if he's still figuring out his groove as a DM.
Adding to what the folks above have said, I would first see if there is something going on with your friend in "real life" (tm) that could be affecting their preparation/focus.
If they are a newer DM perhaps they started with a premade adventure (or parts of one) and are now struggling a bit in building their campaign world after. Definitely talk a bit first before going in and adding advice. Heck it could also just be DM growing pains that most, if not all, of us go through. Once you've opened a dialogue you can slowly get more information so that you may better approach the situation.
Good luck!
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Others have covered it pretty well, but I’ll add this (hopefully not relevant) question: is this your friend’s first time DMing? I have seen players try DMing, start strong but dwindle later because their heart wasn’t in it. If your heart isn’t in it, you won’t put the time in to prepare a good game.
Anyone can DM, but not everyone enjoys it in the long run. I’m one of the weird ones that has been a DM and not a player for most of my D&D history (going back to the 80s), and have seen a lot of other DMs drop out because they simply prefer to be a player.
This isn't his first time DMing but he hasn't had a lot of experience. And I would say that is kind of how it goes for him, where you say they start out strong but dwindle later because their hearts weren't in it. I've only ever been in two of his games but I know he's a busy guy with a lot riding on him. I can't fault him for that obviously. That's why I mentioned the option of maybe offering to help make assets for the game.
There are other things he's been doing, like denying successful rolls if they would derail his story or ignore requests out of spite. Something that I didn't mention in the original post is that he gets really combative when we're all just hanging out and the players talk about things they're doing for their characters to make them stronger in combat. Example: I'm playing a swashbuckler rogue (it's the only archetype that fits the character) and I was joking about taking a few levels in fighter to be even more of a destroyer. He didn't take that well and sometimes would try denying me sneak attacks when I clearly could use it.
But all and all, I think you hit the nail on the head: He is pretty inexperienced and can't really put the time in. I'm still going to try and work with him If I can.
I also wanted to thank everyone for their advice so far!
I haven't had the time to talk to him before the next game but I'm going to shoot for it today and see what comes of it. Will probably post an update on here depending on what happens!
You could always see if a break would help as well. Give them time to decompress and all that.