I am a beginning DM and my players do really weird stuff. I'm using premade modules and on a whim, the players do something that leads to something that eventually leads to me closing the book because everything is improv.
Any ideas on how to have the events stick closer to the modules without making my players feel pigeonholed?
Manage expectations a little bit. Tell your players that they are playing a module, and yes, modules are, by their nature, a little bit tracked, and that you love all of their odd quirky side bits, but maybe they could at least try to keep it to the adventure path until the end. meet them halfway, but keep trying to keep everyone pointed in the right direction.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Create consequences. If players stray from the story then have the story find them. You should be prepared for players making different choices and allowing them a sense of freedom and agency, but there's nothing wrong with providing strong hints to players that they should follow a certain path, that if they don't deal with the problems presented in the narrative then those problems will only get bigger until they are unavoidable.
what kinds of random are we talking about? at some point, you will get used to the usual kinds of things that your group does that is not "on track", and what you can do is prepare contingencies for those scenarios. it is unusual to always be, let alone enjoy, going down one path. but if someone is known for doing the same type of thing, you can keep something prepared for that. for me, this is now a normal part of my DM prep
I'm currently playing with a new group going through Lost Mine of Phandelver and one of my favorite features of that adventure is how well it balances player agency and story progression.
*** Minor Spoilers for LMoP ***
For example: After a couple of days spent in and around the main town of Phandalin, the local ruffians (The Redbrands) will eventually seek out the PC's and attempt to kill the party (unless the party has already decided to assist in clearing the ruffian hideout). The brilliant bit is that even if the party tries to avoid town, they will inevitably have to return at some point (either to turn in quests, resupply, or simply rest at the Inn), so there's no avoiding this encounter... they have to fight the Redbrands.
Moral of the story is not to necessarily force your players into making certain actions, but to let the world react to their presence.
Your players are adventurers exploring the world by kicking ass and taking names, that causes other people in that world to take notice. As fromshus mentioned above, there should be consequences to your player's actions.
This question would be easier to answer in the specific, rather than the general. There could be thousands of ways to "self-correct" a campaign so that "weird choices" don't scuttle the boat.
In general, let's talk about some of the techniques you can use.
Roadblocks. The characters attempt to rent a ship and sail east, but the port is under quarantine, low and behold, the evil prince hump-dink is the one who has done this. You'll need a writ of passage bearing the royal seal to leave the quarantined zone.
Detours. The players attempt to steal the ship, but they are caught! They are brought to the capital and await court where the evil prince hump-dink will decide their fates.
Bribery. They attempt to barter passage on a ship to sail east, but the ship's captain says that he will only grant you passage in exchange for one small favor. KILL Prince Hump-dink. Oh, also, he has a vorpal sword.
The edge of infinity. You rent a ship and head east. You arrive on a western shore of the same continent you left (weird fogbank optional). Suprise, suprise, your characters find even more reasons here why the evil prince hump-dink must die.
Rewrite the darn story. Your characters sail east. They find an Island covered in cultists. They sail a little farther, they find the next city. They sail farther? looky there, it's prince hump-dink's magic flying castle.
Railroad the hell out of them. Make it super obvious. Let them know that this is the story of 5 adventurers who murder prince hump-dink. The more obvious you make it, paradoxically, the less it will feel like you are railroading them, and the more it will feel like a cool feature of the world. If you do nothing but countermand, re-direct, and subvert everything they do for several sessions, they will resent you for it. Pull the R cord like you are ripping off a band-aid. If it stings a little, even, that's kindof okay.
Let them play. The story will be there when they are ready. Think of it this way, you spent $30 on this module, right? Do you want this module to last 2 months before you shell out another $30 or 18 months? The more meandering the path, the more money you save! The more value, per dollar spent. The more total joy, that $30 outlay has brought to you and your friends.
As others have said, that question is pretty general. A friend of mine is fond of a GM philosophy that I also adopted: the orcs are always in the forest. Regardless of where the players go in the forest, the orcs will still be there. If they really go off the rails, you should probably roll with it for a while and then adapt the published material to the events that the player's have created.
Also, is this just a case of a group going off the rails (which is pretty normal, really) or do you have one or more players that just like to screw with everyone by making choices that will obviously derail the game?
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Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons, for You are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup,
When I use modules one simple thing you can do is have all roads lead to the same place. If the module says path A to the bandits stronghold and they want to go with path Q ok fine , it still leads them back to where they need to go, as Players it is there job to have fun, As a DM it is our job to let them have fun but still keep the story going forward. If they don't want to track the bandits right now that's ok let the bandits keep poping up , robing from the town at some point they are going to want to restock and the town will have nothing, forcing them to go where you want them to go
My players basically all work together and try to derail the campaign. Every single one will go for something of no consequence(and they know it) and go along with it as a joke, until it becomes not a joke.
My players basically all work together and try to derail the campaign. Every single one will go for something of no consequence(and they know it) and go along with it as a joke, until it becomes not a joke.
In order to fix it, you need to figure out why they are doing it. D&D is a cooperative game. It needs the buy in of both the players and the DM to keep the game going.
Personally, I am completely in favour of improv. If the CHARACTER chooses to take an action that would make sense for that character then I'll let it play out and see where it leads (while making up anything I need as I go along since any decision on the player's part is likely to have consequences). However, in this case the players WANT to play and are making in character decisions. In this case, if I want the party to go in a certain direction then I set things up so that the CHARACTERS are motivated to go in that direction. What are the goals and objectives, WHY are the characters going into a dangerous area (money? fame? rescue someone? good samaritan?) ... once the characters have good reasons to go through the module then the players tend to be more engaged since they understand why they are there and what they want to accomplish ... rather than "Lets run this blahblah module" it becomes "my character is here because they want to rescue XXXX and earn a reward and we need to hurry before the bad guys harm XXXX".
On the other hand, motivating PLAYERS is much more difficult. Are the players derailing things because they are bored? Is the pace too slow? Do they not understand what their characters should want to do? Do they get more fun out of teasing the newbie DM than from playing? In this case, try to set the tone, give the CHARACTERS the motivations they need, keep the pace quick ... do the players prefer combat, exploration or social encounters? Give them a bit more of what they want. If they intentionally go off track to disrupt things then maybe have a little chat about that and find out why they want to do it ... preferably choosing some action that would seem particularly out of character as the starting point. The bottom line is that since D&D is cooperative, the players need to want to be there, want to play and want to contribute ... otherwise it becomes like herding cats which gets you nowhere fast :)
I am having the same problem, one of my players want to take a piece of every monster he comes across and me being the DM I have to look at the consequences of those choices. I set two harpy's at them and the first thing he wanted to do with it after he killed it? Cut off one of the wings. but me being the DM I said no because there was no where for him to put it. Today he literally told him I was ruining his fun because I am not allowing him to do certain things such as cut off a monster bit. He asked to throw a pig at an air elemental I said sure he lost the pig because he rolled a one when trying to catch it. I don't want to be a strict DM but I don't know how to keep him from doing crazy things. where he literally has nowhere to put it. I plan to give them a bag of holding of course I do. So How do I keep him from doing these crazy things while not ruining his fun?
If he really doesn't have anywhere to carry it ( and really? Nowhere? Players can carry armor, weapons, equipment, a zillion arrows, and 1000s of gold pieces, and he can't carry a wing? ) then present that as a problem, for the Player to solve - not declare an action impossible.
I can completely see why he thinks you are "ruining his fun" if you're restricting his Character's actions, based on what you think is reasonable. That's not your job. Players do not need to conform to the story actions, or story outcomes you think should happen.
I don't think you should "keep him from doing crazy things" - just make sure that the results of such actions are realistic, and that people react to the Character's actions in a plausible manner.
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I let the party run about how they please. I know it can throw things all sorts of sideways but you can still have fun with it. I like to listen to the players and play on what they are trying to go after or are looking to do. Honestly it can keep you as a DM on your toes. I used to run games back in the day totally unplanned and would just make things up as I went so this helps but anyone can manage it. My players went completely another direction from what I had set up for the session and not having any content I was was forced to wing it. Its working out. The players dont need to know what you have or do not have for them. Now that the session is over I can work on some material for them and basically get them going in the right direction or have something major happen where I intended them to go in the first place. Thus causing some interesting things to happen to grab the parties attention and hope they take the bait.
one of my players want to take a piece of every monster he comes across
So my first question is, is this in character for that player? is the character a barbarian (as an example) that wants to take a trophy from slain foes?
My second question would be what else would you do with a harpy corpse? (and no, I don't really want an answer to that question :) Perhaps the player thinks they can take the wing back to town as "proof" of an event and thereby gain prestige.0
As others have mentioned, sometimes players do crazy things, sometimes you can say no, but consider the options of "yes" and turn it into an interesting story. Let them do things they can't do in video games (within reason). For the pig attack, perhaps the intent was to distract the air elemental in some way so that others could get advantage? If you saw a flying pig coming towards you what would you focus on?
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
I agree with what Koradgee is saying. Let the players do what they want within reason. If a player keeps collecting parts of monsters make sure that they add weight and even start to stink because of rotting thus giving them disadvantage on any social DCs simply because they now have an oder to them.
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Hello DMs,
I am a beginning DM and my players do really weird stuff. I'm using premade modules and on a whim, the players do something that leads to something that eventually leads to me closing the book because everything is improv.
Any ideas on how to have the events stick closer to the modules without making my players feel pigeonholed?
Thanks.
Manage expectations a little bit. Tell your players that they are playing a module, and yes, modules are, by their nature, a little bit tracked, and that you love all of their odd quirky side bits, but maybe they could at least try to keep it to the adventure path until the end. meet them halfway, but keep trying to keep everyone pointed in the right direction.
Create consequences. If players stray from the story then have the story find them. You should be prepared for players making different choices and allowing them a sense of freedom and agency, but there's nothing wrong with providing strong hints to players that they should follow a certain path, that if they don't deal with the problems presented in the narrative then those problems will only get bigger until they are unavoidable.
what kinds of random are we talking about?
at some point, you will get used to the usual kinds of things that your group does that is not "on track", and what you can do is prepare contingencies for those scenarios. it is unusual to always be, let alone enjoy, going down one path. but if someone is known for doing the same type of thing, you can keep something prepared for that. for me, this is now a normal part of my DM prep
I'm currently playing with a new group going through Lost Mine of Phandelver and one of my favorite features of that adventure is how well it balances player agency and story progression.
*** Minor Spoilers for LMoP ***
For example: After a couple of days spent in and around the main town of Phandalin, the local ruffians (The Redbrands) will eventually seek out the PC's and attempt to kill the party (unless the party has already decided to assist in clearing the ruffian hideout). The brilliant bit is that even if the party tries to avoid town, they will inevitably have to return at some point (either to turn in quests, resupply, or simply rest at the Inn), so there's no avoiding this encounter... they have to fight the Redbrands.
Moral of the story is not to necessarily force your players into making certain actions, but to let the world react to their presence.
Your players are adventurers exploring the world by kicking ass and taking names, that causes other people in that world to take notice. As fromshus mentioned above, there should be consequences to your player's actions.
Happy Gaming!!!
This question would be easier to answer in the specific, rather than the general. There could be thousands of ways to "self-correct" a campaign so that "weird choices" don't scuttle the boat.
In general, let's talk about some of the techniques you can use.
As others have said, that question is pretty general. A friend of mine is fond of a GM philosophy that I also adopted: the orcs are always in the forest. Regardless of where the players go in the forest, the orcs will still be there. If they really go off the rails, you should probably roll with it for a while and then adapt the published material to the events that the player's have created.
Also, is this just a case of a group going off the rails (which is pretty normal, really) or do you have one or more players that just like to screw with everyone by making choices that will obviously derail the game?
Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons, for You are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup,
When I use modules one simple thing you can do is have all roads lead to the same place. If the module says path A to the bandits stronghold and they want to go with path Q ok fine , it still leads them back to where they need to go, as Players it is there job to have fun, As a DM it is our job to let them have fun but still keep the story going forward. If they don't want to track the bandits right now that's ok let the bandits keep poping up , robing from the town at some point they are going to want to restock and the town will have nothing, forcing them to go where you want them to go
My players basically all work together and try to derail the campaign. Every single one will go for something of no consequence(and they know it) and go along with it as a joke, until it becomes not a joke.
I am having the same problem, one of my players want to take a piece of every monster he comes across and me being the DM I have to look at the consequences of those choices. I set two harpy's at them and the first thing he wanted to do with it after he killed it? Cut off one of the wings. but me being the DM I said no because there was no where for him to put it. Today he literally told him I was ruining his fun because I am not allowing him to do certain things such as cut off a monster bit. He asked to throw a pig at an air elemental I said sure he lost the pig because he rolled a one when trying to catch it. I don't want to be a strict DM but I don't know how to keep him from doing crazy things. where he literally has nowhere to put it. I plan to give them a bag of holding of course I do. So How do I keep him from doing these crazy things while not ruining his fun?
Why say no? What not let him collect trophies?
If he really doesn't have anywhere to carry it ( and really? Nowhere? Players can carry armor, weapons, equipment, a zillion arrows, and 1000s of gold pieces, and he can't carry a wing? ) then present that as a problem, for the Player to solve - not declare an action impossible.
I can completely see why he thinks you are "ruining his fun" if you're restricting his Character's actions, based on what you think is reasonable. That's not your job. Players do not need to conform to the story actions, or story outcomes you think should happen.
I don't think you should "keep him from doing crazy things" - just make sure that the results of such actions are realistic, and that people react to the Character's actions in a plausible manner.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I let the party run about how they please. I know it can throw things all sorts of sideways but you can still have fun with it. I like to listen to the players and play on what they are trying to go after or are looking to do. Honestly it can keep you as a DM on your toes. I used to run games back in the day totally unplanned and would just make things up as I went so this helps but anyone can manage it. My players went completely another direction from what I had set up for the session and not having any content I was was forced to wing it. Its working out. The players dont need to know what you have or do not have for them. Now that the session is over I can work on some material for them and basically get them going in the right direction or have something major happen where I intended them to go in the first place. Thus causing some interesting things to happen to grab the parties attention and hope they take the bait.
So my first question is, is this in character for that player? is the character a barbarian (as an example) that wants to take a trophy from slain foes?
My second question would be what else would you do with a harpy corpse? (and no, I don't really want an answer to that question :) Perhaps the player thinks they can take the wing back to town as "proof" of an event and thereby gain prestige.0
As others have mentioned, sometimes players do crazy things, sometimes you can say no, but consider the options of "yes" and turn it into an interesting story. Let them do things they can't do in video games (within reason). For the pig attack, perhaps the intent was to distract the air elemental in some way so that others could get advantage? If you saw a flying pig coming towards you what would you focus on?
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
I agree with what Koradgee is saying. Let the players do what they want within reason. If a player keeps collecting parts of monsters make sure that they add weight and even start to stink because of rotting thus giving them disadvantage on any social DCs simply because they now have an oder to them.