The game I went to last feels as if the DM has adopted a kill-the-players mentality. Maybe it's me being upset that my swashbuckler/battlemaster has been reduced to only wielding a dagger, without any other gear and having had no opportunity of changing the outcome, but I strongly feel that something needs to change.
He's an experienced DM playing since before 3.5E and I was made aware before joining that he scales his encounters up as the party grows in strength.
The party had purchased land outside the defensible walls of a major city and bribed the goblin squatters to leave. As soon as one of the party's wizards started raising a wall, the party got hit with a preemptive meteor swarm spell, dropping 2 of 6 characters immediately. There were really 8, but two escaped as soon as it was feasibly possible for them to.
Knocking on the group's door were 2 hobgoblin archmages (using the npc archmage stats) and 10 hobgoblin warlords, with reinforcements on the way. They are equipped with magical weapons and armor.
The party is levels 10 and 11, with numerous magic items, mostly very rare or lesser rarity, with legendary sprinkled in (all the characters have +3 weapons/foci, and the barbarian/fighter has a belt of storm giants).
A couple of rulings further complicate things. One archmage threw a fireball over the wall like a grenade, not requiring line of sight. I reasoned that this one has a unique metamagic, but then the DM called that wizards who fall unconscious lose their prepared spells. Two of the characters are wizards, and one of the ones who initially dropped was the evoker. The diviner then dropped from the lobbed fireball, closing the portal he made for the group to escape and teleporting away from his Contingency. What's worse, the evoker no longer has his spellbook now, too.
As a player, I feel as if I was cheated and lied to. As a DM, I question if there was any attempt to make the encounter feasible. What can be done about this?
This is a touchy situation. We don't know the existing dynamic, history, etc. On the surface, the surprise encounter does seem a bit excessive but I don't have enough knowledge of the setting to give more of a comment.
The fireball grenade lobbing seems to square with RAW as there is no visual requirement...it’s just a point you choose within range, but unless there was a way for the mage to see behind the wall then it would be guesswork on their part to know if anyone was there. The loss of prepared spells seems very much like a homebrew rule though...that is a huge setback for wizards in general if they are reduced to cantrip slinging, especially since you can go unconscious from monster effects and even the sleep spell, not just from being reduced to 0HP, and non wizard classes do not get the same penalty. If that rule was not established before play began then I would feel cheated just like you are. Also, two CR 12 creature is a hard encounter for the party level you described before adding any other minions and swapping out the archmage spells to add meteor swarm (instead of time stop) would potentially change the damage output of the creature and further increase its CR. I would talk to the DM about the sudden homebrew rulings...that sort of thing should be agreed upon in session 0, not sprung on the players mid-encounter
@Shalrath42 The setting is the Sword Coast of the Forgotten Realms, shortly after the events of Against the Giants. Many places were affected by it, and some are still rebuilding.
The party is well known throughout the area, as is expected of an average high-tier group, called the Drunken Joes. They've amassed many magical items from various places, and quite a few of them were given by request on completing particularly dangerous quests. At least 2 characters, the diviner and berserker/fighter, have boons, the former casting Teleportation Circle at will with no resource cost, the latter casting Wish at the cost of a character level and being unable to do it again until he regains said lost level. They consist of an Open Hand Monk, a Vengeance Paladin, a Berserker/Fighter, an Evoker, a Diviner, a Thief, an Assassin, and my Swashbuckler/Battlemaster. The Land Druid and the other Fighter were not present for this last session.
As of the session I joined in, they've had to undermine a powerful priest of Tyr by delivering a message to him from his ancient blue dragon benefactor. Each character got 10k gold and their choice of a rare or lesser magic item (at this time, I took a handy haversack). As a bonus, the Duchess of Daggerford granted the party legal ownership of the local wizards' tower, which is currently under hobgoblin control. Now they are tasked to gather the followers of Tyr on the command of said god and have them pass through Daggerford without harm, which is proving to be even more troublesome than the previous quest. It was then that the events I stated in the opening post took place.
What upsets me personally as a player is that my character was captured before she could literally do anything (she was damaged from the previous session's encounter when the meteors fell, and was dropped to 0 along with the Evoker), stripped of all her gear and cast out with nothing but her Firebolt and Prestidigitation cantrips and her Familiar. She couldn't even use Booming Blade or most of her class features. The Diviner is in the same boat, with no spellbook or prepared spells. On top of that, the group seems to be leaning towards leaving the area, which while it's a safe and intelligent option, it also means my character has been ****** to the point of being borderline useless and has little hope of catching up to the other characters' power scale.
The Diviner can copy spells from the Evoker's book, but I now have to work with a mundane dagger and nothing else. I've been with this group for 4 sessions, and my character concept has been completely pulverized (Rogue6/Fighter4 High Elf, 67 hp w/o amulet of health, stats 11 16 12 16 10 10, Defense Fighting Style, Precision Attack/Reposte maneuvers, Medium Armor Master, Magic Initiate, now +7 to hit against high AC enemies with possibly resistance to nonmagical weapons, Rakish Audacity never works due to every encounter so far featuring large groups of foes clumped up together or surrounding the group).
@iconarising The wizards' players seemed surprised by the ruling on arcane prepared spells, so I can assume this came out of the blue.
As for the fireball lobbing, I had assumed it normally had to follow the clear path rule, which would make it stop on the wall as a straight path was obstructed by it. This was not a huge concern, since one archmage could've cast Fly on the other, and then that one could cast Fireball unobstructed.
As for the effective CR of the encounter, I did some math; a single CR 18 archmage with Meteor Swarm instead of Time Stop is around a CR 13 easy encounter. Now factor in a second one (CR 21 pair, deadly). Then 10 CR 6 Hobgoblin Warlords (CR 22 gang, deadly by itself, CR 30 mob with only 1 CR 18 archmage). Then add in magic items for them to reasonably use. As a DM, I find this unacceptable and very munchkin-y.
A similar group of 1 regular Archmage and 10 Hobgoblin Captains is CR 21, which is a deadly encounter. Dropping it down to 6 captains makes it CR 20, a hard encounter. On the notion that the party has powerful magic items, I'd have left it at 1 CR 18 archmage and 3 captains without magic items, while giving the party a chance to prevent the Meteor Swarm (the party was made to roll Wisdom (Perception) to detect that meteors were falling, meaning the spell had already been cast).
Encounter builder says this is literally ridiculous.
Based on a party of 8 level 11's, 2 archmages alone would be a MEDIUM encounter.
Add *ONE* Hobgoblin Warlord and that takes it to a HARD encounter, and just a literal hair below DEADLY.
He's throwing TEN of those warlords at you with the two Archmages? Plus MORE reinforcements?? After a pre-emptive meteor strike? DEADLY would be TWO warlords. Also "A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range" to me means fireballs needs line of sight.
"then he called that wizards who fall unconscious lose their prepared spells." Wait, what?
Your DM is a joke. I'd politely tell the DM he's crap at his job. And if I didn't like the outcome of that discussion, I'd walk away and ask all the others to do the same.
Well what exactly happened after you went to 0hp? Being behind a wall with the rest of your group there really shouldn't be any reason why someone didn't heal you, or carried you to safety. Did the group try to fight? how many where captured? where all your escape options blocked at the time?
Honestly there's nothing wrong with a DM running a "run or die" encounter, as long as it's rare and used to setup something else it's perfectly fine. Not to mention that if your DM wanted your characters dead then stripping them of their equipment instead of... well killing them.... seems needlessly complicated.
@Roald84 Round started with the evoker rolling a death save. The monk used a health potion to pick him up. The paladin healed himself with Cure Wounds and went to the frontline. The barbarian went to the front and readied an attack for when the hobgoblins rounded the corner. The diviner set up the teleportation circle for the group to escape. The assassin escaped via portal. Que fireball, diviner dropped, portal closed and he contingencied away, hobgobs rolled in, one ate a crit from the barb and they got off 2 multiattacks on him. I rolled a death save and the thief hid.
Evoker wanted to fireball, but was then told he lost his prepared spells, so he healed me with a potion instead. Monk dashed and step-of-the-winded away, paladin dashed away, barbarian dashed after taking an opprotunity attack. Archmages teleported behind evoker and me, warlords approached from the front and said "surrender or die." I surrendered, thief was watching from a safe distance, evoker surrendered.
@All I called up my DM and asked about the situation and why things happened the way they did. He said that the diviner was setting up visible fortifications in hostile territory, especially right after the player was told that doing so was very dangerous (the diviner has high intelligence, but poor wisdom). He apologized about the gear thing, since it was what the hobgobs would've reasonably done (I think he forgot I'm playing a high elf, the party's races are all over the place).
He did tip me off that a powerful NPC the party knows was watching via magic, and this individual will be sending some aid at the start of the next session. He didn't specify how, though.
I'll be giving him one more chance, but I hope he doesn't do something like this again. If it does, I'll find another table to spend my Fridays at. Thanks for all the advice and reassuring, it really helped!
In my very limited experience DMing, while I agree with the basic concept of scaling up encounters as the party increases in level, it should also be balanced with what is reasonable for the area/scenario.
Other than that, I have to admit I'm curious about "setting up visible fortifications in hostile territory" requiring such overwhelming force. Personally, I would think that the Hobgobs would have sent out a scouting party to first figure out what's going on. The party would have either not even noticed them or easily wiped the floor with them. THEN the big guns come out, but allowing time to not be roflstomped by something they couldn't have reasonable expected (imho). Just showing up with a meteor swarm and a war party out of nowhere... I don't think I'd be willing to suspend that much disbelief. I mean, if there were previous encounters and it was well established that there was a ridiculously powerful goblin settlement in the area, and you all knew that, and you all knew that they kept a close eye on "their" territory, and knew that they responded with overwhelming force to any threat to their dominance, then there's that. If not, then it seems a bit much.
As for the Wizard spellbook/prepared spell tie in, being a player who loves me a wizard, I would be pretty miffed about that. I would likely ask to reroll a character or "think out loud" that I might need to not continue in this campaign.
Those are just my humble thoughts on what you've presented in this thread.
He did tip me off that a powerful NPC the party knows was watching via magic, and this individual will be sending some aid at the start of the next session. He didn't specify how, though.
I'll be giving him one more chance, but I hope he doesn't do something like this again. If it does, I'll find another table to spend my Fridays at. Thanks for all the advice and reassuring, it really helped!
Hopefully, it sounds like the DM realises he fecked up, so now he's invented some Deus ex Machina to get the party and thus him, out of this hole that he felt was a good idea at the time. Which is fine on the surface, but you as PC's are almost superfluous then, it's DM vs DM at that point. You've each got all these carefully chosen abilities, and you've been neutered. Theres just no fun any more.
Why oh why isn't the DM using an encounter builder?
Also, the DM seriously needs to walk back the whole "being knocked unconscious un-prepares all your spells for the day" thing. I mean, that's one bad roll away from a TPK.
1) How hostile could the area be if it was land that was purchased outside the defensible walls of a major city? This doesn't sound like the land is far from the city at all.
"The party had purchased land outside the defensible walls of a major city and bribed the goblin squatters to leave."
"He said that the diviner was setting up visible fortifications in hostile territory, especially right after the player was told that doing so was very dangerous"
2) A few goblins are bribed to leave and 2 archmages and 10 warlords show up to get rid of the folks putting up walls? If this was dangerous how was the party supposed to know that god-like hobgoblin casters were about to show up with 9th level spells? One would think that the folks from the city would have already perceived these goblins as a significant threat and done something about them.
3) If the DM is playing 5e then they have NO clue about how prepared spells work. They are pulling in rules from previous versions of the game. They are fine to house rule how they want to play it but they should let the players know ... how the players got to level 11 and are surprised by the DM insisting they lose prepared spells when they fall unconscious is ridiculous.
PHB 114
"You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must he of a level for which you have spell slots. For example. if you're a 3rd-level wizard, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With an Intelligence of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination, chosen from your spellbook. If you prepare the 1st-level spell magic missile, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn't remove it from your list of prepared spells. You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of wizard spells requires time spent studying your spellbook and memorizing the incantations and gestures you must make to cast the spell: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list."
- you prepare spells ONCE
- you don't lose prepared spells when you are unconscious
- you don't lose prepared spells when you sleep
- you DON'T prepare spells ever again unless you want to change what you have prepared. You have the option of changing prepared spells but you don't have to.
- you don't lose cantrips.
Anyway, the only thing a wizard loses when they lose the spell book is the ability to change the spells they have prepared, not the ability to cast anything they have prepared and have the spell slots for.
Tell the DM to explain the rules they want to play by before introducing them or ask them to read and understand the 5e rules before trying to run them.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate and try and defend the DM a little bit here.
First, the losing spell on knocked out is bullshit, but might have been a misruling on the spot. It happens, talk to him about it, and it should resolve peacefully.
As for the encounter itself, I feel like it comes down to trust. Yes, it's over the top. Yes, it was impossible to win. But maybe that's the story. Maybe you're supposed to go "this encounter makes no sense, why would a pair of archmages and SEVERAL warlords be here. Something must be wrong, this is not something that could have been expected". And maybe you'll investigate, find out the source, and get your revenge on those people that joined forces to ambush you. This could actually be a good hook.
Hopefully, it sounds like the DM realises he fecked up, so now he's invented some Deus ex Machina to get the party and thus him, out of this hole that he felt was a good idea at the time. Which is fine on the surface, but you as PC's are almost superfluous then, it's DM vs DM at that point.
The party is lv 10-11, they played a fair bit with that DM, and there's the possibility that it was his first time doing that, as a way to show that they attracted the attention of powerful people. If once every 20 sessions the DM pulls a scripted encounter, I feel like he deserves it.
Of course there's also the possibility that he just messed up, or is a bad DM. I've played with my fair share of those as well. But as others say, this is something that should be discussed with him: is this encounter something your character and you should find weird, or is it just "buisness as usual" ?
It is possible that the GM was trying to reduce the power level of the party. a group of lvl 10-11 all with +3 weapons and legendaries is pretty buff. Maybe he was attempting to trim off some of the items he thinks is making the party too powerful right now.
If not, I don't know, I'd look for another group. The losing spells thing is a game breaker.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Common sense would make you able to judge what's going on (bad dm / pissed dm / has something in mind). The last one would be the only logical explanation. He's trying to get you into a situation for a story he has cooking and you're just desperatly running away from it, so he takes drastic measures to get you into it.
My advice would be, go with it, just take it. The encounter is clearly not set-up for you to win. Make it a wipe, see how it plays out. Remember the goal isn't to be the most powerful land posessing, magic wearing, jippy-ja-jeej party ever, but to have fun while co-creating a story.
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The game I went to last feels as if the DM has adopted a kill-the-players mentality. Maybe it's me being upset that my swashbuckler/battlemaster has been reduced to only wielding a dagger, without any other gear and having had no opportunity of changing the outcome, but I strongly feel that something needs to change.
He's an experienced DM playing since before 3.5E and I was made aware before joining that he scales his encounters up as the party grows in strength.
The party had purchased land outside the defensible walls of a major city and bribed the goblin squatters to leave. As soon as one of the party's wizards started raising a wall, the party got hit with a preemptive meteor swarm spell, dropping 2 of 6 characters immediately. There were really 8, but two escaped as soon as it was feasibly possible for them to.
Knocking on the group's door were 2 hobgoblin archmages (using the npc archmage stats) and 10 hobgoblin warlords, with reinforcements on the way. They are equipped with magical weapons and armor.
The party is levels 10 and 11, with numerous magic items, mostly very rare or lesser rarity, with legendary sprinkled in (all the characters have +3 weapons/foci, and the barbarian/fighter has a belt of storm giants).
A couple of rulings further complicate things. One archmage threw a fireball over the wall like a grenade, not requiring line of sight. I reasoned that this one has a unique metamagic, but then the DM called that wizards who fall unconscious lose their prepared spells. Two of the characters are wizards, and one of the ones who initially dropped was the evoker. The diviner then dropped from the lobbed fireball, closing the portal he made for the group to escape and teleporting away from his Contingency. What's worse, the evoker no longer has his spellbook now, too.
As a player, I feel as if I was cheated and lied to. As a DM, I question if there was any attempt to make the encounter feasible. What can be done about this?
This is a touchy situation. We don't know the existing dynamic, history, etc. On the surface, the surprise encounter does seem a bit excessive but I don't have enough knowledge of the setting to give more of a comment.
The fireball grenade lobbing seems to square with RAW as there is no visual requirement...it’s just a point you choose within range, but unless there was a way for the mage to see behind the wall then it would be guesswork on their part to know if anyone was there. The loss of prepared spells seems very much like a homebrew rule though...that is a huge setback for wizards in general if they are reduced to cantrip slinging, especially since you can go unconscious from monster effects and even the sleep spell, not just from being reduced to 0HP, and non wizard classes do not get the same penalty. If that rule was not established before play began then I would feel cheated just like you are. Also, two CR 12 creature is a hard encounter for the party level you described before adding any other minions and swapping out the archmage spells to add meteor swarm (instead of time stop) would potentially change the damage output of the creature and further increase its CR. I would talk to the DM about the sudden homebrew rulings...that sort of thing should be agreed upon in session 0, not sprung on the players mid-encounter
@Shalrath42 The setting is the Sword Coast of the Forgotten Realms, shortly after the events of Against the Giants. Many places were affected by it, and some are still rebuilding.
The party is well known throughout the area, as is expected of an average high-tier group, called the Drunken Joes. They've amassed many magical items from various places, and quite a few of them were given by request on completing particularly dangerous quests. At least 2 characters, the diviner and berserker/fighter, have boons, the former casting Teleportation Circle at will with no resource cost, the latter casting Wish at the cost of a character level and being unable to do it again until he regains said lost level. They consist of an Open Hand Monk, a Vengeance Paladin, a Berserker/Fighter, an Evoker, a Diviner, a Thief, an Assassin, and my Swashbuckler/Battlemaster. The Land Druid and the other Fighter were not present for this last session.
As of the session I joined in, they've had to undermine a powerful priest of Tyr by delivering a message to him from his ancient blue dragon benefactor. Each character got 10k gold and their choice of a rare or lesser magic item (at this time, I took a handy haversack). As a bonus, the Duchess of Daggerford granted the party legal ownership of the local wizards' tower, which is currently under hobgoblin control. Now they are tasked to gather the followers of Tyr on the command of said god and have them pass through Daggerford without harm, which is proving to be even more troublesome than the previous quest. It was then that the events I stated in the opening post took place.
What upsets me personally as a player is that my character was captured before she could literally do anything (she was damaged from the previous session's encounter when the meteors fell, and was dropped to 0 along with the Evoker), stripped of all her gear and cast out with nothing but her Firebolt and Prestidigitation cantrips and her Familiar. She couldn't even use Booming Blade or most of her class features. The Diviner is in the same boat, with no spellbook or prepared spells. On top of that, the group seems to be leaning towards leaving the area, which while it's a safe and intelligent option, it also means my character has been ****** to the point of being borderline useless and has little hope of catching up to the other characters' power scale.
The Diviner can copy spells from the Evoker's book, but I now have to work with a mundane dagger and nothing else. I've been with this group for 4 sessions, and my character concept has been completely pulverized (Rogue6/Fighter4 High Elf, 67 hp w/o amulet of health, stats 11 16 12 16 10 10, Defense Fighting Style, Precision Attack/Reposte maneuvers, Medium Armor Master, Magic Initiate, now +7 to hit against high AC enemies with possibly resistance to nonmagical weapons, Rakish Audacity never works due to every encounter so far featuring large groups of foes clumped up together or surrounding the group).
@iconarising The wizards' players seemed surprised by the ruling on arcane prepared spells, so I can assume this came out of the blue.
As for the fireball lobbing, I had assumed it normally had to follow the clear path rule, which would make it stop on the wall as a straight path was obstructed by it. This was not a huge concern, since one archmage could've cast Fly on the other, and then that one could cast Fireball unobstructed.
As for the effective CR of the encounter, I did some math; a single CR 18 archmage with Meteor Swarm instead of Time Stop is around a CR 13 easy encounter. Now factor in a second one (CR 21 pair, deadly). Then 10 CR 6 Hobgoblin Warlords (CR 22 gang, deadly by itself, CR 30 mob with only 1 CR 18 archmage). Then add in magic items for them to reasonably use. As a DM, I find this unacceptable and very munchkin-y.
A similar group of 1 regular Archmage and 10 Hobgoblin Captains is CR 21, which is a deadly encounter. Dropping it down to 6 captains makes it CR 20, a hard encounter. On the notion that the party has powerful magic items, I'd have left it at 1 CR 18 archmage and 3 captains without magic items, while giving the party a chance to prevent the Meteor Swarm (the party was made to roll Wisdom (Perception) to detect that meteors were falling, meaning the spell had already been cast).
People are *****footing around this....
Encounter builder says this is literally ridiculous.
Based on a party of 8 level 11's, 2 archmages alone would be a MEDIUM encounter.
Add *ONE* Hobgoblin Warlord and that takes it to a HARD encounter, and just a literal hair below DEADLY.
He's throwing TEN of those warlords at you with the two Archmages? Plus MORE reinforcements?? After a pre-emptive meteor strike? DEADLY would be TWO warlords. Also "A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range" to me means fireballs needs line of sight.
"then he called that wizards who fall unconscious lose their prepared spells." Wait, what?
Your DM is a joke. I'd politely tell the DM he's crap at his job. And if I didn't like the outcome of that discussion, I'd walk away and ask all the others to do the same.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/encounter-builder
Well what exactly happened after you went to 0hp? Being behind a wall with the rest of your group there really shouldn't be any reason why someone didn't heal you, or carried you to safety. Did the group try to fight? how many where captured? where all your escape options blocked at the time?
Honestly there's nothing wrong with a DM running a "run or die" encounter, as long as it's rare and used to setup something else it's perfectly fine. Not to mention that if your DM wanted your characters dead then stripping them of their equipment instead of... well killing them.... seems needlessly complicated.
@Roald84 Round started with the evoker rolling a death save. The monk used a health potion to pick him up. The paladin healed himself with Cure Wounds and went to the frontline. The barbarian went to the front and readied an attack for when the hobgoblins rounded the corner. The diviner set up the teleportation circle for the group to escape. The assassin escaped via portal. Que fireball, diviner dropped, portal closed and he contingencied away, hobgobs rolled in, one ate a crit from the barb and they got off 2 multiattacks on him. I rolled a death save and the thief hid.
Evoker wanted to fireball, but was then told he lost his prepared spells, so he healed me with a potion instead. Monk dashed and step-of-the-winded away, paladin dashed away, barbarian dashed after taking an opprotunity attack. Archmages teleported behind evoker and me, warlords approached from the front and said "surrender or die." I surrendered, thief was watching from a safe distance, evoker surrendered.
@All I called up my DM and asked about the situation and why things happened the way they did. He said that the diviner was setting up visible fortifications in hostile territory, especially right after the player was told that doing so was very dangerous (the diviner has high intelligence, but poor wisdom). He apologized about the gear thing, since it was what the hobgobs would've reasonably done (I think he forgot I'm playing a high elf, the party's races are all over the place).
He did tip me off that a powerful NPC the party knows was watching via magic, and this individual will be sending some aid at the start of the next session. He didn't specify how, though.
I'll be giving him one more chance, but I hope he doesn't do something like this again. If it does, I'll find another table to spend my Fridays at. Thanks for all the advice and reassuring, it really helped!
In my very limited experience DMing, while I agree with the basic concept of scaling up encounters as the party increases in level, it should also be balanced with what is reasonable for the area/scenario.
Other than that, I have to admit I'm curious about "setting up visible fortifications in hostile territory" requiring such overwhelming force. Personally, I would think that the Hobgobs would have sent out a scouting party to first figure out what's going on. The party would have either not even noticed them or easily wiped the floor with them. THEN the big guns come out, but allowing time to not be roflstomped by something they couldn't have reasonable expected (imho).
Just showing up with a meteor swarm and a war party out of nowhere... I don't think I'd be willing to suspend that much disbelief.
I mean, if there were previous encounters and it was well established that there was a ridiculously powerful goblin settlement in the area, and you all knew that, and you all knew that they kept a close eye on "their" territory, and knew that they responded with overwhelming force to any threat to their dominance, then there's that. If not, then it seems a bit much.
As for the Wizard spellbook/prepared spell tie in, being a player who loves me a wizard, I would be pretty miffed about that. I would likely ask to reroll a character or "think out loud" that I might need to not continue in this campaign.
Those are just my humble thoughts on what you've presented in this thread.
Hopefully, it sounds like the DM realises he fecked up, so now he's invented some Deus ex Machina to get the party and thus him, out of this hole that he felt was a good idea at the time. Which is fine on the surface, but you as PC's are almost superfluous then, it's DM vs DM at that point. You've each got all these carefully chosen abilities, and you've been neutered. Theres just no fun any more.
Why oh why isn't the DM using an encounter builder?
Also, the DM seriously needs to walk back the whole "being knocked unconscious un-prepares all your spells for the day" thing. I mean, that's one bad roll away from a TPK.
A few comments ..
1) How hostile could the area be if it was land that was purchased outside the defensible walls of a major city? This doesn't sound like the land is far from the city at all.
"The party had purchased land outside the defensible walls of a major city and bribed the goblin squatters to leave."
"He said that the diviner was setting up visible fortifications in hostile territory, especially right after the player was told that doing so was very dangerous"
2) A few goblins are bribed to leave and 2 archmages and 10 warlords show up to get rid of the folks putting up walls? If this was dangerous how was the party supposed to know that god-like hobgoblin casters were about to show up with 9th level spells? One would think that the folks from the city would have already perceived these goblins as a significant threat and done something about them.
3) If the DM is playing 5e then they have NO clue about how prepared spells work. They are pulling in rules from previous versions of the game. They are fine to house rule how they want to play it but they should let the players know ... how the players got to level 11 and are surprised by the DM insisting they lose prepared spells when they fall unconscious is ridiculous.
PHB 114
"You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must he of a level for which you have spell slots. For example. if you're a 3rd-level wizard, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With an Intelligence of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination, chosen from your spellbook. If you prepare the 1st-level spell magic missile, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn't remove it from your list of prepared spells. You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of wizard spells requires time spent studying your spellbook and memorizing the incantations and gestures you must make to cast the spell: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list."
- you prepare spells ONCE
- you don't lose prepared spells when you are unconscious
- you don't lose prepared spells when you sleep
- you DON'T prepare spells ever again unless you want to change what you have prepared. You have the option of changing prepared spells but you don't have to.
- you don't lose cantrips.
Anyway, the only thing a wizard loses when they lose the spell book is the ability to change the spells they have prepared, not the ability to cast anything they have prepared and have the spell slots for.
Tell the DM to explain the rules they want to play by before introducing them or ask them to read and understand the 5e rules before trying to run them.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate and try and defend the DM a little bit here.
First, the losing spell on knocked out is bullshit, but might have been a misruling on the spot. It happens, talk to him about it, and it should resolve peacefully.
As for the encounter itself, I feel like it comes down to trust. Yes, it's over the top. Yes, it was impossible to win. But maybe that's the story. Maybe you're supposed to go "this encounter makes no sense, why would a pair of archmages and SEVERAL warlords be here. Something must be wrong, this is not something that could have been expected". And maybe you'll investigate, find out the source, and get your revenge on those people that joined forces to ambush you. This could actually be a good hook.
The party is lv 10-11, they played a fair bit with that DM, and there's the possibility that it was his first time doing that, as a way to show that they attracted the attention of powerful people. If once every 20 sessions the DM pulls a scripted encounter, I feel like he deserves it.
Of course there's also the possibility that he just messed up, or is a bad DM. I've played with my fair share of those as well. But as others say, this is something that should be discussed with him: is this encounter something your character and you should find weird, or is it just "buisness as usual" ?
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It is possible that the GM was trying to reduce the power level of the party. a group of lvl 10-11 all with +3 weapons and legendaries is pretty buff. Maybe he was attempting to trim off some of the items he thinks is making the party too powerful right now.
If not, I don't know, I'd look for another group. The losing spells thing is a game breaker.
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-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
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Common sense would make you able to judge what's going on (bad dm / pissed dm / has something in mind). The last one would be the only logical explanation. He's trying to get you into a situation for a story he has cooking and you're just desperatly running away from it, so he takes drastic measures to get you into it.
My advice would be, go with it, just take it. The encounter is clearly not set-up for you to win. Make it a wipe, see how it plays out. Remember the goal isn't to be the most powerful land posessing, magic wearing, jippy-ja-jeej party ever, but to have fun while co-creating a story.