Newbie DM here, getting ready to run my 6th session soon. The group I run has some veterans from the 3.5 days and earlier, including myself, and some younger, new teenager-initiates, for a total of 6 PCs + me as the DM. We're cutting our teeth on Phandalin. I'd like to know what you all think about rewriting Nezznar, Glasstaff, and Haman Kost with RAW. What levels would you put them at? I reworked Nezznar at a level 10, but I'm thinking that may be too much, and am now considering him more of an 8 (understand that I'm planning on the endgame battle to be 6 lvl 5 characters, plus maybe Sildar, too). Glasstaff and Haman would be level 6's. The 3 wizards are conspiring together to find the Forge of Spells, with Nezznar being the mastermind. I'd be interested in hearing ideas/thoughts about appropriate wizard-levels.
Keep in mind how much damage wizards of that level could do (if they get a cast off) as compared to your party health.
For encounters with wizards they either need to be prepared ahead of time, or even better have minions or other distractions for the party.
A decent level wizard is going to do their best to not stand toe-to-toe with a party. I'm pretty sure every party "kills a caster on sight".
For Kost for example, if you have him where he is in LMoP, he could actually be towards the top of a ruined tower, perhaps with a poorly barred door, with some minions at the base of the tower making it difficult for the party to get a free shot at him, while he instead casts down from above or does other things to be a nuissance.
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"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Having read significantly more about the encounter and how there are other minions involved, I now see that Nezznar should remain at the level the module prescribed but potentially with more HP.
The more HP thing would probably help the Nezznar fight. We got through this module recently with my brother as DM. My character had the wand of magic missile and basically one-shotted Nezznar. He may have taken some mild damage already at that point but I used the max # of charges I could use on a single turn and just obliterated the dude. There were still a bunch of other baddies in the room to deal with but he was one of the first that got taken out. He didn't use the spider staff at all in the fight so using the staff could also help with making him more of a challenge. Per the module, characters should be at level 4 by the time they reach Wave Echo. He's got a CR of 2. Upping the AC or giving him some different/additional spells could also help to up the CR. If you go with the max HP given by the hit dice listed in the stat block, he'd have 48 HP, not quite double what the average HP is listed as. Reading his stat block (I'm DMing us through ToD right now and we as a party neglected to do the Thundertree sidequest so I'll be incorporating it into the ToD campaign), he does seem kind of weak for an enemy you're going to face as essentially the big bad of your adventure. Another thing that might help make it not so easy is to steer your PCs toward the right side of the dungeon first. We as a party ended up going straight to Nezznar's chamber, bypassing almost the entire dungeon. We hadn't faced the wraith, the spectator, none of the stationary baddies. We'd happened on one random encounter but we avoided it because my character was stealthing ahead using her thieves' tools and darkvision to check around corners. If your PCs have gone through the majority of the dungeon, they'll be worn out and potentially out of spell slots so will have to get creative with their cantrips and other attacks, which could up the CR without having to change any stats.
My table just finished Tresendar Manor. I had Nezznar in the Wizard’s workshop speaking with Glasstaff, but the party doesn’t know anything more than he was a Drow wizard with Iarno. After he cast Fear, which sent one fighter running, he dispensed a fireball which knocked the other fighter out. Glasstaff cast Darkness, and the party spent 2 rounds shooting arrows and swinging aimlessly at the darkness until the cleric cast light, revealing that they had escaped. It was exactly what I wanted to happen. I may have taken a little bit of creative license with the scene.
anyway, I’m just trying to plan ahead. I think maxing out HP and adding just a few more offensive spells should be sufficient. I plan on planting the doppelgänger in the party as Daran Edermath, who subtly leads the party to Thundertree on their way to Cragmaw Castle.
I appreciate any tips or tricks y’all are willing to share.
Sorry in advance, for the thread necro. That said...
Hamun Kost *should* be a 6th level caster with access to Raise Dead, but he's also spent all of his 3rd level slots maintaining control over his 12 zombies. All that'll do is raise his hit dice by two. Tack on the Ring of Protection (why wouldn't he wear it?) and his CR might go up a notch.
Iarno *should* be CR 2 with the staff and the right tactics. He's probably not a higher level caster, though, because he's supposed to try and eacape rather than fight. Even if he was a 5th level wizard, he wouldn't use fireball inside. It'd wreck whole chunks of his lair. I prefer him as a social encounter, anyway.
Max their hit points if you think they need more staying power.
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Hello,
Newbie DM here, getting ready to run my 6th session soon. The group I run has some veterans from the 3.5 days and earlier, including myself, and some younger, new teenager-initiates, for a total of 6 PCs + me as the DM. We're cutting our teeth on Phandalin. I'd like to know what you all think about rewriting Nezznar, Glasstaff, and Haman Kost with RAW. What levels would you put them at? I reworked Nezznar at a level 10, but I'm thinking that may be too much, and am now considering him more of an 8 (understand that I'm planning on the endgame battle to be 6 lvl 5 characters, plus maybe Sildar, too). Glasstaff and Haman would be level 6's. The 3 wizards are conspiring together to find the Forge of Spells, with Nezznar being the mastermind. I'd be interested in hearing ideas/thoughts about appropriate wizard-levels.
Thanks!
Keep in mind how much damage wizards of that level could do (if they get a cast off) as compared to your party health.
For encounters with wizards they either need to be prepared ahead of time, or even better have minions or other distractions for the party.
A decent level wizard is going to do their best to not stand toe-to-toe with a party. I'm pretty sure every party "kills a caster on sight".
For Kost for example, if you have him where he is in LMoP, he could actually be towards the top of a ruined tower, perhaps with a poorly barred door, with some minions at the base of the tower making it difficult for the party to get a free shot at him, while he instead casts down from above or does other things to be a nuissance.
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Lvl 10 wizard vs party of lvl 4-5? Sounds like TPK...
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Having read significantly more about the encounter and how there are other minions involved, I now see that Nezznar should remain at the level the module prescribed but potentially with more HP.
The more HP thing would probably help the Nezznar fight. We got through this module recently with my brother as DM. My character had the wand of magic missile and basically one-shotted Nezznar. He may have taken some mild damage already at that point but I used the max # of charges I could use on a single turn and just obliterated the dude. There were still a bunch of other baddies in the room to deal with but he was one of the first that got taken out. He didn't use the spider staff at all in the fight so using the staff could also help with making him more of a challenge. Per the module, characters should be at level 4 by the time they reach Wave Echo. He's got a CR of 2. Upping the AC or giving him some different/additional spells could also help to up the CR. If you go with the max HP given by the hit dice listed in the stat block, he'd have 48 HP, not quite double what the average HP is listed as. Reading his stat block (I'm DMing us through ToD right now and we as a party neglected to do the Thundertree sidequest so I'll be incorporating it into the ToD campaign), he does seem kind of weak for an enemy you're going to face as essentially the big bad of your adventure. Another thing that might help make it not so easy is to steer your PCs toward the right side of the dungeon first. We as a party ended up going straight to Nezznar's chamber, bypassing almost the entire dungeon. We hadn't faced the wraith, the spectator, none of the stationary baddies. We'd happened on one random encounter but we avoided it because my character was stealthing ahead using her thieves' tools and darkvision to check around corners. If your PCs have gone through the majority of the dungeon, they'll be worn out and potentially out of spell slots so will have to get creative with their cantrips and other attacks, which could up the CR without having to change any stats.
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My table just finished Tresendar Manor. I had Nezznar in the Wizard’s workshop speaking with Glasstaff, but the party doesn’t know anything more than he was a Drow wizard with Iarno. After he cast Fear, which sent one fighter running, he dispensed a fireball which knocked the other fighter out. Glasstaff cast Darkness, and the party spent 2 rounds shooting arrows and swinging aimlessly at the darkness until the cleric cast light, revealing that they had escaped. It was exactly what I wanted to happen. I may have taken a little bit of creative license with the scene.
anyway, I’m just trying to plan ahead. I think maxing out HP and adding just a few more offensive spells should be sufficient. I plan on planting the doppelgänger in the party as Daran Edermath, who subtly leads the party to Thundertree on their way to Cragmaw Castle.
I appreciate any tips or tricks y’all are willing to share.
Sorry in advance, for the thread necro. That said...
Hamun Kost *should* be a 6th level caster with access to Raise Dead, but he's also spent all of his 3rd level slots maintaining control over his 12 zombies. All that'll do is raise his hit dice by two. Tack on the Ring of Protection (why wouldn't he wear it?) and his CR might go up a notch.
Iarno *should* be CR 2 with the staff and the right tactics. He's probably not a higher level caster, though, because he's supposed to try and eacape rather than fight. Even if he was a 5th level wizard, he wouldn't use fireball inside. It'd wreck whole chunks of his lair. I prefer him as a social encounter, anyway.
Max their hit points if you think they need more staying power.