I used to play lightly back in the 3.5 days and recently picked up the Starter Kit (and went a bit crazy with the 3 core books and the Essentials Kit). I ran the first part of "Lost Mine of Phandelver", finishing the first cave. That was a couple weekends ago and we're going to go again, hopefully, this weekend.
My questions are:
1. What's the best way to get the RPing more? Right now they are loving the combat and all, but I want them to see there's more to it than that.
2. They went Fighter heavy with both Fighters selected, the Cleric, and the Rogue. Is it worthwhile to make up a Wizard that can move along with them? Perhaps, associated with the first question, use him to help them get the hang of RPing?
Are these brand new players? That's awesome! The first thing to explain to new players is that D&D is not a game that has an end goal. It's not a game that you can "win". D&D is not about the destination, it's about the journey. Explain to them that D&D is theater. It's an improv exercise in which the players and the audience are the same people.
So... some pointers for good role playing...
1. Encourage the players to develop backstories for their characters. At least a paragraph or two that they can share in their character's voice without having to refer to the page. This will help them get to know their character and thus feel more confident making decisions that their character would make.
2. DO THE VOICES! Granted, not everyone is Matt Mercer. Not everyone can do a perfect brogue. Not every character has to have a thick accent, but there should at least be enough of a difference between the character's voice and the player's voice that everyone knows which of the two is speaking.
3. Speak in the first person! Explain to your players that it's better to say, "I'm searching for traps" rather than, "My character will search for traps." This also includes referring to other characters by their name, not by the player's name. They should be saying, "I cast Cure Wounds on my elven friend, Syl'varel" rather than "My character casts Cure Wounds on Steve's character".
4. Don't just state... NARRATE! Explain to each player that they should be able to provide a quick sentence or two to flesh out their action on each of their turns. Encourage them to say something like, "I run to the aid of my dwarven friend and position myself between him and the monster. I ready my shield to protect him while he finishes casting his spell, and I raise one eyebrow toward the beast, almost daring it to try to get past me". That sounds a lot better than, "Move up 30 feet, patient defense in front of the dwarf."
5. Be a role model. Embody each NPC they encounter. Make each NPC address each character directly, by name (if they know it). And be sure to set some table rules - no playing with your phones at the table, no distracting off-topic chatter, pay attention to and respect each other, and think about what you want to do next round instead of waiting for your turn do decide.
Explain to the players that D&D is the art of cooperative storytelling. If someone were to transcribe a D&D session, it should read like a novel, not like Ikea instructions. The sooner they feel comfortable speaking as their characters, the sooner they'll begin acting like their characters. I've played in a lot of campaigns with a lot of groups over the years. And maybe it's just me, but I remember more of the names of the characters than of the players. When they begin to address each other by their character's names OUTSIDE the game, that's when you know they have achieved something special.
As far as the lack of a wizard... that's different. Sure, a balanced group should have at least some arcane capability, but it's not absolutely essential. Just make sure that there are no crisis points in the module that require an arcane component to succeed. Find a workaround. Maybe let one of the characters find a minor homebrew magic item like a "Ring of Detect Magic" that let's the wearer use detect magic twice per day. Or maybe they encounter an NPC wizard during their quest who is on a similar quest. Just be sure to not let the wizard do all the work. They should understand that they don't control this NPC. Their paths just happen to intersect briefly, and the teamwork should be mutually beneficial.
And most importantly... HAVE FUN!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
The only thing I'd add, is that - for now at least - be OK if they're not role-playing.
If by RPing, you mean making choices in Character - then you nudge them in that direction, for sure. When the Player declares that their Character is going to do such-and-such, and you feel that it's out of character, as them "would _______ really do that? Remember that ...." - but I wouldn't go strong handed and disallow actions, especially with newer Players. You want to subtly remind them of the personality of the Character that they may have lost track of.
If, by RPing, you mean talking and interacting with each other as their Characters - then the best you can do is set up an environment where it's easy and natural for them to to do so. And you need to realize that's not a required part of the game, nor is it a kind of fun that all Players enjoy, even if you do ( Player/GM compatibility is a whole other discussion).
I'd recommend the video below, by Matt Colville, regarding types of Players, and differing GM/Player expectations.
Regarding the Party composition, you might to check out the Unearthed Arcana onSidekicks.
That would allows you bump out the Party abilities, and optionally give the Players control over their Sidekick. They're essentially simplified, stripped down, role-specific NPCs.
I'd be careful how proactive such Sidekicks would be, however - try not to make them GM mouthpieces to nudge the Party. Remember, Sidekicks in fiction just meekly follow the plans of the Hero.
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I don't really see a need to add a wizard. 5e really doesn't require a standard party composition. Rogues with skill checks and clerics with their divine spells should handle things fine.
A good way to get them in to non-combat RP is to present non-combat challenges to solve via having their characters interact with NPCs in appropriate ways. The first cave of LMoP doesn't necessarily have much of that unless you or the players push for it, but Phandalin and later areas can. Make sure there are times where
1) your players want something
2) there's NPCs that either have the key, or are standing in the way
3) the best solution doesn't involve just killing everything, and the players can realize that
4) the best solution ties in to the characters and their backstories.
An example could be a situation where there's some guards guarding something, and nudge the players to the solution of "The two fighters build a rapport with the guard and distract them, while the rogue sneaks by to steal a thing". Just going off of the stereotypical figher/rogue archetypes. Or whatever would fit your characters.
Another approach is to lead them to break up combat with RP by presenting obvious hooks for it. E.g. in the middle of combat, have one of the Minions vocally disagree with the Boss Monster about the need to fight the heroes, creating an opportunity for the party to turn the tide of the combat with a few well-timed arguments.
Basically, anything that lets the players realize that there's other ways to make progress besides dealing damage.
What I would say is that ... give them some scenario that doesn't advance the plot nor does it present a threat -- per se. If your players are "dudes", maybe throw a drinking contest or maybe a dice or card game. Maybe give them a character who is desperate to talk to them because it is a small village. Maybe make Sildar have one of his wounds open up, so he needs to go to a doctor on the way there and have the players talk to the doctor. Make the scene something that might interest them: know your audience.
One of the best things I have found for interesting npcs is to give them relatable traits. I'm currently working on my new campaign and one of the characters is a person who is rich, has expensive tastes and just doesn't realise that other people aren't rich too. So, when she meets with the party, she will insist on conducting business over expensive dinners, with several bottles of expensive wine. Then, because its fair, she will expect the players to pay their own share of the meal. It's not malicious, she just isn't considering the wealth of a few low level adventurers. She's that friend who keeps wanting to have really posh nights out that really start draining your bank accounts. "Real" is good. "Real" is funny. "Real" is engaging.
Lost Mines of Phandelver, in my opinion, is a western. You have the saloon, you have a gang of bandits, a bounty board, a lost map to a hidden treasure, a cowardly mayor. So you can maybe also take some elements from westerns for ideas. You don't need to spell it out, but if you can subtly borrow elements from Fistfull of Dollars or something like that, I think it can really make the town of Phandalin come to life. Which is the idea if you want to encourage roleplaying: give the players content they want to engage with.
We played again today, about 3 hours. Took me a while to spin up and get everyone back up to speed (been about 3 weeks since we last played). But, we started the second part of the mission; I played a little more loose and introduced people to the corrected rules of combat and spell casting beforehand. They took some time to role-play and actually the one I figured would have the most trouble with it liked it best! That player was playing the rogue and so one thing I had happen was some brigands waiting outside the Inn in the morning to attack them yelling about the rogue (who's keeping his past a secret outside the party). Then they found out about the Sleeping Giant Tap and were able to sneak up and ambush another 4 brigands there. They then intimidated Grista in to only charging them 2GP per body (down from 4GP) to cleanup the place but she did tell them they'd be better served at the Stonehill Inn. Back there, because the two battles left them a bit downtrodden, Toblen was so pleased with their efforts to handle the Redbrands that he offered them all a free meal for their stay that night.
One thing I plan to take advantage of here is the campaign notes so everyone knows what's going on with the campaign, what we've done, and what we have outstanding.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I used to play lightly back in the 3.5 days and recently picked up the Starter Kit (and went a bit crazy with the 3 core books and the Essentials Kit). I ran the first part of "Lost Mine of Phandelver", finishing the first cave. That was a couple weekends ago and we're going to go again, hopefully, this weekend.
My questions are:
1. What's the best way to get the RPing more? Right now they are loving the combat and all, but I want them to see there's more to it than that.
2. They went Fighter heavy with both Fighters selected, the Cleric, and the Rogue. Is it worthwhile to make up a Wizard that can move along with them? Perhaps, associated with the first question, use him to help them get the hang of RPing?
Thanks :)
Are these brand new players? That's awesome! The first thing to explain to new players is that D&D is not a game that has an end goal. It's not a game that you can "win". D&D is not about the destination, it's about the journey. Explain to them that D&D is theater. It's an improv exercise in which the players and the audience are the same people.
So... some pointers for good role playing...
1. Encourage the players to develop backstories for their characters. At least a paragraph or two that they can share in their character's voice without having to refer to the page. This will help them get to know their character and thus feel more confident making decisions that their character would make.
2. DO THE VOICES! Granted, not everyone is Matt Mercer. Not everyone can do a perfect brogue. Not every character has to have a thick accent, but there should at least be enough of a difference between the character's voice and the player's voice that everyone knows which of the two is speaking.
3. Speak in the first person! Explain to your players that it's better to say, "I'm searching for traps" rather than, "My character will search for traps." This also includes referring to other characters by their name, not by the player's name. They should be saying, "I cast Cure Wounds on my elven friend, Syl'varel" rather than "My character casts Cure Wounds on Steve's character".
4. Don't just state... NARRATE! Explain to each player that they should be able to provide a quick sentence or two to flesh out their action on each of their turns. Encourage them to say something like, "I run to the aid of my dwarven friend and position myself between him and the monster. I ready my shield to protect him while he finishes casting his spell, and I raise one eyebrow toward the beast, almost daring it to try to get past me". That sounds a lot better than, "Move up 30 feet, patient defense in front of the dwarf."
5. Be a role model. Embody each NPC they encounter. Make each NPC address each character directly, by name (if they know it). And be sure to set some table rules - no playing with your phones at the table, no distracting off-topic chatter, pay attention to and respect each other, and think about what you want to do next round instead of waiting for your turn do decide.
Explain to the players that D&D is the art of cooperative storytelling. If someone were to transcribe a D&D session, it should read like a novel, not like Ikea instructions. The sooner they feel comfortable speaking as their characters, the sooner they'll begin acting like their characters. I've played in a lot of campaigns with a lot of groups over the years. And maybe it's just me, but I remember more of the names of the characters than of the players. When they begin to address each other by their character's names OUTSIDE the game, that's when you know they have achieved something special.
As far as the lack of a wizard... that's different. Sure, a balanced group should have at least some arcane capability, but it's not absolutely essential. Just make sure that there are no crisis points in the module that require an arcane component to succeed. Find a workaround. Maybe let one of the characters find a minor homebrew magic item like a "Ring of Detect Magic" that let's the wearer use detect magic twice per day. Or maybe they encounter an NPC wizard during their quest who is on a similar quest. Just be sure to not let the wizard do all the work. They should understand that they don't control this NPC. Their paths just happen to intersect briefly, and the teamwork should be mutually beneficial.
And most importantly... HAVE FUN!
Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
Anzio Faro. Lvl 5 Prot. Aasimar Light Cleric.
I think TaynOfDarkwood has given some great advice.
The only thing I'd add, is that - for now at least - be OK if they're not role-playing.
If by RPing, you mean making choices in Character - then you nudge them in that direction, for sure. When the Player declares that their Character is going to do such-and-such, and you feel that it's out of character, as them "would _______ really do that? Remember that ...." - but I wouldn't go strong handed and disallow actions, especially with newer Players. You want to subtly remind them of the personality of the Character that they may have lost track of.
If, by RPing, you mean talking and interacting with each other as their Characters - then the best you can do is set up an environment where it's easy and natural for them to to do so. And you need to realize that's not a required part of the game, nor is it a kind of fun that all Players enjoy, even if you do ( Player/GM compatibility is a whole other discussion).
I'd recommend the video below, by Matt Colville, regarding types of Players, and differing GM/Player expectations.
Regarding the Party composition, you might to check out the Unearthed Arcana on Sidekicks.
That would allows you bump out the Party abilities, and optionally give the Players control over their Sidekick. They're essentially simplified, stripped down, role-specific NPCs.
I'd be careful how proactive such Sidekicks would be, however - try not to make them GM mouthpieces to nudge the Party. Remember, Sidekicks in fiction just meekly follow the plans of the Hero.
Best of luck with your game :)
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I don't really see a need to add a wizard. 5e really doesn't require a standard party composition. Rogues with skill checks and clerics with their divine spells should handle things fine.
A good way to get them in to non-combat RP is to present non-combat challenges to solve via having their characters interact with NPCs in appropriate ways. The first cave of LMoP doesn't necessarily have much of that unless you or the players push for it, but Phandalin and later areas can. Make sure there are times where
1) your players want something
2) there's NPCs that either have the key, or are standing in the way
3) the best solution doesn't involve just killing everything, and the players can realize that
4) the best solution ties in to the characters and their backstories.
An example could be a situation where there's some guards guarding something, and nudge the players to the solution of "The two fighters build a rapport with the guard and distract them, while the rogue sneaks by to steal a thing". Just going off of the stereotypical figher/rogue archetypes. Or whatever would fit your characters.
Another approach is to lead them to break up combat with RP by presenting obvious hooks for it. E.g. in the middle of combat, have one of the Minions vocally disagree with the Boss Monster about the need to fight the heroes, creating an opportunity for the party to turn the tide of the combat with a few well-timed arguments.
Basically, anything that lets the players realize that there's other ways to make progress besides dealing damage.
Tayn pretty much said everything worth saying.
What I would say is that ... give them some scenario that doesn't advance the plot nor does it present a threat -- per se. If your players are "dudes", maybe throw a drinking contest or maybe a dice or card game. Maybe give them a character who is desperate to talk to them because it is a small village. Maybe make Sildar have one of his wounds open up, so he needs to go to a doctor on the way there and have the players talk to the doctor. Make the scene something that might interest them: know your audience.
One of the best things I have found for interesting npcs is to give them relatable traits. I'm currently working on my new campaign and one of the characters is a person who is rich, has expensive tastes and just doesn't realise that other people aren't rich too. So, when she meets with the party, she will insist on conducting business over expensive dinners, with several bottles of expensive wine. Then, because its fair, she will expect the players to pay their own share of the meal. It's not malicious, she just isn't considering the wealth of a few low level adventurers. She's that friend who keeps wanting to have really posh nights out that really start draining your bank accounts. "Real" is good. "Real" is funny. "Real" is engaging.
Lost Mines of Phandelver, in my opinion, is a western. You have the saloon, you have a gang of bandits, a bounty board, a lost map to a hidden treasure, a cowardly mayor. So you can maybe also take some elements from westerns for ideas. You don't need to spell it out, but if you can subtly borrow elements from Fistfull of Dollars or something like that, I think it can really make the town of Phandalin come to life. Which is the idea if you want to encourage roleplaying: give the players content they want to engage with.
We played again today, about 3 hours. Took me a while to spin up and get everyone back up to speed (been about 3 weeks since we last played). But, we started the second part of the mission; I played a little more loose and introduced people to the corrected rules of combat and spell casting beforehand. They took some time to role-play and actually the one I figured would have the most trouble with it liked it best! That player was playing the rogue and so one thing I had happen was some brigands waiting outside the Inn in the morning to attack them yelling about the rogue (who's keeping his past a secret outside the party). Then they found out about the Sleeping Giant Tap and were able to sneak up and ambush another 4 brigands there. They then intimidated Grista in to only charging them 2GP per body (down from 4GP) to cleanup the place but she did tell them they'd be better served at the Stonehill Inn. Back there, because the two battles left them a bit downtrodden, Toblen was so pleased with their efforts to handle the Redbrands that he offered them all a free meal for their stay that night.
One thing I plan to take advantage of here is the campaign notes so everyone knows what's going on with the campaign, what we've done, and what we have outstanding.