I'm kinda new at DMing and my table are composed by first runners. Every now and then some get surprised for something that they didn't pay attention and others players say: "it was described 5 minutes ago" or in the middle of something someone stops and say a joke or try to guess what may happen like: "and then a goblin come out of the bushes with wearing clown shoes and a lollypop in his hands".
They really seem to be enjoying playing the game, but I believe they like more action (combat) than storytelling.
Is it rude to stop and say to them, now it's time to listen and talk when I'm done (maybe wait for "what you guys do?" question)?
What should I improve to get their attention and prevent that kind of behavior (guessing game)?
Thanks,
Sorry if this thread is in the wrong topic. It's my first one.
It may seem obvious, but you need to find the right compromise between storytelling and action.
I feel use can use some mysteries in your campaign: strange disappearances, weird magical happenings...this way, the players need to listen to the story because the clues to solve the mystery are in there.
And while they do that, you can throw them a Nilbog, which is a possessed goblin with pink robe (the closest thing to a clown goblin really).
When things like that happen in my in-person games, I just skip some of the storytelling. This may not work for everyone and may be somewhat excessive.
Otherwise, take someone else's advice; it'll probably be better than anything else I could tell you.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
It may seem obvious, but you need to find the right compromise between storytelling and action.
Re: The point is: I need at least some of storytelling, and frequently they do the jokes.
I feel use can use some mysteries in your campaign: strange disappearances, weird magical happenings...this way, the players need to listen to the story because the clues to solve the mystery are in there.
Re: I'll try to come up with something. Just started Lost Mines of Phandelver.
And while they do that, you can throw them a Nilbog, which is a possessed goblin with pink robe (the closest thing to a clown goblin really).
How much backstory did your group put into there own characters? Maybe getting them to invest in that will make them slightly more story focused. Otherwise, get hammy. Reeeeaaaaly have fun with the NPC's, keep their attention on what is being said by giving them an intresting character to tell them. Give them a lisp or tone, even an accent if you can (don't give your players a chance to derail on account of you making a terrible scotsman). The more you tell them about their surrounds and cast, the more they'll come around.
How much backstory did your group put into there own characters? Maybe getting them to invest in that will make them slightly more story focused. Otherwise, get hammy. Reeeeaaaaly have fun with the NPC's, keep their attention on what is being said by giving them an intresting character to tell them. Give them a lisp or tone, even an accent if you can (don't give your players a chance to derail on account of you making a terrible scotsman). The more you tell them about their surrounds and cast, the more they'll come around.
As they never played before, I asked them to choose the pre-made characters included in Starter Set. Some of them got into it, but some just read the backstory.
They also seem to enjoying to interact with the NPCs. They all got into a goblin interrogation (failed miserably to get any information) and everyone contributed in some way and were aware of what was going on.
Maybe my mistakes are in describing the surroundings.
Other thing that occurred me is that when asking for what they will do, someone started to say something wise to do and another one come up to interrupt with a joke saying that he/she's going to make something different. I'm relieving these things, as they all are new to RPG, asking if the character is really intending to do it.
I believe I have different levels of engagement in the table. Some take it serious to have fun and others take it lighthearted to have fun.
I just don't know what to do to balance the players expectations (so as mine) and outcome of the campaign.
Balancing what you want, and what your players want, so that everyone gets the optimal level of enjoyment of the game, is the "trick" to being a great DM. So while it's not actually rude to ask your players to pay attention to the story bits, it's also not that likely to solve the underlying issue by itself. So here's some advice on what you can try to do with your group to improve the collective play experience:
It's important than you get to have the story bits you (and sounds like some of your players, since they can tell the others what you said 5 minutes ago) enjoy, but it is just as important that people get to crack jokes that they enjoy, and make what they think are fun or funny interjections. The key is to let yourself laugh with them, if at all possible, and proceed on with the game - because players cracking jokes and making interjections isn't an insult to the DM's story, it's a form of participation. My group goes on at least half a dozen joke or interjection-related tangents every time we get together for a session, but we do so because we've had the conversation of "Jokes and side-chat are great, but we should try to remember and get back to the game quickly after them because we only have about 4 hours to play."
As for the "guessing game", I encourage you to open yourself up to altering your plans to make some of their guesses end up being correct - again, if at all possible; I'm not saying you should have clown-shoed candy-wielding goblins suddenly invade the world... unless you are into that too. I'm saying whenever one of their guesses sounds decent, even if not as good as what you had planned to happen, but not terrible either, then maybe have their guess happen instead. Because this is, again, not an insult to your DMing, it's a form of participation - so if you can turn it into a tool that works for you, you will be able to engage your players more deeply (at least, that's been my experience in the time that I've incorporated player-input like these guesses into my campaigns) and also not have to flesh out quite as much detail when you put together your campaign plans because the players making guesses will help you fill things in with the game in-progress.
Now, for the final bit of advice on this topic, we go to what every DM should be told is step 1 of getting good at being a DM, but for some reason the books that are meant to help people learn don't put enough emphasis on; Sit down with your players and have a discussion, open, honest, and sincere, about what you each enjoy about the game and how you want to play it. That way you can all see what the rest of the people in the group are most interested in and begin to work as a team to fulfill as much of that for as many of you as is possible. Such conversation also helps because it can point out, without the feelings in the moment it happens clouding anyone's judgement, the things that irritate someone in the group, which enables the group to approach those aspects of play or personality mindfully (by which I mean it enables someone who does something that irritates someone else in the group to knowingly try not to be irritating, when otherwise they might have no idea the impact their actions/words will have and think it is the other person that is out of line in their being irritated without apparent cause). And lastly, it helps identify if the members of the group just aren't fitting together as a group - even people that are great friends otherwise and have no problems outside of when they are gaming together can be like oil and water when it comes to gaming.
Yes it is rude to say that. Cause then your players will think that they are just spectators in your game. Aside from that... Listening to your players is a must. Jokes will happen regardless but jokes that repeats every 5 seconds are rude and you should ask the player to take this a bit more seriously.
Players losing interest is often done because you took too long on one person. Share the spotlight more often going into pauses from players. Exemples... The player is buying stuff at an npc. After a few buy ins. You say while this is happening and then look at another player and its now his turn. Only to come back later on the npc guy. Juggling between players makes sure they listen later on.
I have yet to meet a player who do not like story. But i have met a lot of players who drops if you give too much story at once. You could also let the players not notice things. If they are surprised by something that was said then simply their chsracter wasnt paying attention. Make that in character.
Last but not least... Listen to your players. If they say things that are better then your actual story... Then let them have it and just forget your own. This is a group game not a book reading of your own fiction.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I always tell my players, if they are bored or not enjoying something to tell me, so I can speed things up or at least try to advance things along. However, I also have a policy of having people not play other games or surf the web while we play or they get the boot. Plain and simple, if someone is going to invest the time to be the DM, players can at least have the decency to pay attention to the game. If they want to be there, and I mean truly be there, they'll be paying attention. If not, you shouldn't miss them.
It happens that I had another session with the group and they got into Phandalin and decided to explore all the way around, split up the party and gather back in Stonehill's.
They just didn't tell me that they missed action of an encounter, the feedback was that they just enjoyed chatting with folks, gather information, etc.
I decided to make a dumb female voice acting when they interacted with a female NPC and it seems that they didn't expect that and started laughing about it.
Some are still shooting jokes, but it got sparse.
In other words, thanks for the tips around. I believe I'm progressing at DMing.
It is a constant journey and you will have sessions with varying engagement. It sounds like you have found the beauty of information gathering encounters or other non-combat encounters.
One thing I will sometimes do depending on what is going on, is make everyone roll for a check at critical points -- especially if there is something important about to happen they need to know about. People love rolling the dice. I try to do this in moderation maybe once or twice during a 3-4 hour session.
Limiting table talk has also made quite a difference. Before a session started I informed the group they are constantly moving forward. That session the group got into a debate on who was getting which items from a recently won battle, they were told they heard footsteps heading in their direction. The steps moved closer, they continued going through who should take what. Now, I also start rolling dice behind the screen (the result sometimes doesn't even matter) this increases the tension because players know a DM rolling dice is never a good thing.
You have the right direction though, get your group to tell you what they want more of and do what you can to give it to them. Nice work. Keep on challenging them.
If there is one thing i learned is that forcing them to go forward also stops them from role playing between themselves which often led to very good moments. I definitely not put tension on them if they are talking about their stuff. i go forward when i see them losing interest.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
If there is one thing i learned is that forcing them to go forward also stops them from role playing between themselves which often led to very good moments. I definitely not put tension on them if they are talking about their stuff. i go forward when i see them losing interest.
I strongly agree when interest is lost it's time to move in a different direction as well. Also, if the role playing meets the current situation I would agree pushing forward can definitely be detrimental: the players are telling a story as well.
Some of the best sessions have been the ones where they get into their characters heads and really talk and think things through sometimes talking for 30 minutes or more about plans/planning, disagreements between their characters etc.
They also asked for as much realism as possible which also plays a factor in this. When in the middle of a forest, with an enemy encampment not too far away and hearing footsteps you can absolutely continue to hand out loot. Just don't expect creatures to wait until you're finished.
Oh my god, I'm kind of having this problem too, I am a year 10 DM and 3 of my players are newb year sevens, 1 of them is a year 10 and calm and the last one is an experienced staff member, my kind of mentor, who introduced me to D&D and one of my year sevens never really pays attention. That same year seven is always arguing with another one of my year sevens and they don't stop. One of them pays attention but the other doesn't and I'm clueless on how to get them to be quiet just for a moment while I describe a scene, roll initiative or do rp and yet those two never shut up!
My advice is to become a school teacher for a few moments and take control of the table just long enough to say “This part is really important to the story and it will help you make smart decisions that may save your lives later on if you understand this much now. I promise to leave plenty of room for you to spread your Wings of Silliness, but you need to hear this part.”
Allow the players to do what they want, but run the game the way you want to run it.
I've found that my players, 3 of whom are new, have slowly moved more and more into the RP aspect, with one becoming more interested in his own backstory as his character has developed. They need time to learn as players, how to be good players. But it seems to be an organic experience.
In my last session the PCs found the name of a key NPC twice and nobody wrote it down or remembered it, which culminated in them accidentally releasing a Lich from her prison. That's on them. Players who don't listen and ignore the story should suffer for it, as hopefully the story is relevant to combat encounters. Didn't listen that the dragon can only be hurt by a Black Arrow and ignored it when they found it? Tough cheese.
In addition to the story elements and mysteries that others are suggesting, I don’t think there is any shame in being pretty transactional with your information. If a fleeing peasant says that they had to leave their grandpa’s heirloom sword at home while running away from the goblins, the player that’s paying the most attention will be the one that finds it. Maybe a traveling merchant they treat kindly mentions that his sister in the next town over will give them a discount on healing potions. Incentivize listening for details beyond just getting to hear about the cool stuff you have invented.
Also, there is the chance that your group just isn’t that invested in the world-building aspect, and sees DnD as only needing enough story to get them from one combat to the next. I had to learn the hard way from my players that they were definitely less interested in map-based minis battles than I expected (and hoped), and had to shift the focus of our sessions accordingly.
this whole discussion leads me to believe your problem lies in the linear aspect of your games. many people would argue that railroad is bad and that open world is good. but those two things cannot really coexists together. for a "Story" in the way you are describing is not open ended. in a story book, the players are expected to just follow the story around and not really care about what their characters want or their needs. it is expected that the players will take up on clues and follow them. while in open world settings, you are droping them into your lore "World" and you just follow them as if i had put a camera on your shoulders and i wa sjust following you around.
the thing is... playing a pre made adventure and playing an open world sandbox is not the same thing. many players loves the aspect of freedom, where they can do whatever they want, including but not limited to pissing on a stray cat if they want to. sure they expect consequences, but they also expect to be able to do whatever "They" want. those people shouldn't be penalised just because they think differently and they definitely shouldn't be scolded for wanting something else then the other players.
you should always be telling your players right away what type of adventure you are running and that if they are not willing to part take in that adventure then they can discuss what they want and you should try to give them a bit of it once in a while. if they are not willing to make 50% of the road along with you, then they do not deserve to be at your table. its as simple as that.
exemple... i told my players that i was gonna run an open world. exploration was gonna be the key to the adventure. they all said yes to it. they all enjoyed it up until recently. where i showed them the map again. with the fog of war revealed only to where they had gone..... they realised that in the end, they had half the story done in 1 year of campaign... only to realise they have only really explored 3% of the whole map. then i showed them the other map, the underground one... and again 5% at most. took me a while to realise it, but they are not going for it if it doesn't involve their characters. what my players want, truly... is for "their character story" to be told. for them to advance their own story. they do not care for the story of my bbeg who just wish world domination. all they want is their story to be evolving. but now that i showed them the map and reminded them that it was an exploration mission from the get go. they started using the map more. as they realised... its true, he's been great with us, he's been advancing our story... we have been shitty with him and have not even cared to do what we were here for to begin with.
the moral of the story is that there is two type of adventures you need to know about. two types of players... - Rail Road story, where you expect the story to resolves around the villain. - Open World story, where the story revolves around each characters in the group and the vilain is just an excuse to put them together in a group. you cannot expect players to go from one to another just because you want it.
so my advice to new DMs... and i know it will sound like more work...but... be willing to add more depth to their characters. they will feel special when you do and that will get them more involved. as you just showed them you listened to them. you're not just following a book story, you are following "their" story. and thats what they want more often then not.
exemple of this in action... one of the player in my far west campaign is a tiefling who is seeking the soul of his father who was taken by a group of bandits. he didn't know where to start looking for and his character like all the others has been recruted by the corporation to explore an unexplored region. that player has taken the time to tell me his backstory... he has taken the time to tell me how his character reacts, how he works, how he feels. i could just go with my adventure and not care about how he plays... but thats not me, instead during a night, he dreamed... he woke up to his father calling him out. how do you think that player, who didn't care about the region he was in reacted to this ? i can tell you, now he was invested ! for i had just gotten his father involved in it !
listen to your players, be willing to incorporate their ideas into the adventures. even if they are pre made adventures. i for once, ran 5 times lost mines of phandelver with 5 different groups and not a single time was the adventure the same. yet the writtings in the book hasn't changed. but i just had to incorporate the reasons behind the players characters background and added every little details i could to those adventures. and everytimes i did that, my players were more involved with the adventure.
thats my take on the whole ordeal. there are times where players will be fine with you rail roading them into your adventure and telling them what they should do or know. but there are times where your players only want freedom to do what "they" want. and you should also reward those players. if they become too irritating for the group, then just show them the door. but in 25 years of DMing... i had to do this door thing only about 3 times... that should tell you something.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I don't see any problem. If they're not paying attention to story elements, good information, or not listening when it's their turn, they're in the wrong. They came to play, you want to play and are putting in the time to run a game. If they aren't playing, tell them they should listen.
But there's the exception of if you're doing bad story telling, but if they don't say that, or say it without anything to back it up, you've done nothing wrong.
I'm kinda new at DMing and my table are composed by first runners. Every now and then some get surprised for something that they didn't pay attention and others players say: "it was described 5 minutes ago" or in the middle of something someone stops and say a joke or try to guess what may happen like: "and then a goblin come out of the bushes with wearing clown shoes and a lollypop in his hands".
They really seem to be enjoying playing the game, but I believe they like more action (combat) than storytelling.
Is it rude to stop and say to them, now it's time to listen and talk when I'm done (maybe wait for "what you guys do?" question)?
What should I improve to get their attention and prevent that kind of behavior (guessing game)?
Thanks,
Sorry if this thread is in the wrong topic. It's my first one.
It may seem obvious, but you need to find the right compromise between storytelling and action.
I feel use can use some mysteries in your campaign: strange disappearances, weird magical happenings...this way, the players need to listen to the story because the clues to solve the mystery are in there.
And while they do that, you can throw them a Nilbog, which is a possessed goblin with pink robe (the closest thing to a clown goblin really).
When things like that happen in my in-person games, I just skip some of the storytelling. This may not work for everyone and may be somewhat excessive.
Otherwise, take someone else's advice; it'll probably be better than anything else I could tell you.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
How much backstory did your group put into there own characters? Maybe getting them to invest in that will make them slightly more story focused. Otherwise, get hammy. Reeeeaaaaly have fun with the NPC's, keep their attention on what is being said by giving them an intresting character to tell them. Give them a lisp or tone, even an accent if you can (don't give your players a chance to derail on account of you making a terrible scotsman). The more you tell them about their surrounds and cast, the more they'll come around.
#OpenDnD. #DnDBegone
Someone shared this video in another thread and I liked the out-of-combat turns tip.
What do you guys think?
Dragon Talk: Sage Advice - Table Rules, 8/28/17
Balancing what you want, and what your players want, so that everyone gets the optimal level of enjoyment of the game, is the "trick" to being a great DM. So while it's not actually rude to ask your players to pay attention to the story bits, it's also not that likely to solve the underlying issue by itself. So here's some advice on what you can try to do with your group to improve the collective play experience:
It's important than you get to have the story bits you (and sounds like some of your players, since they can tell the others what you said 5 minutes ago) enjoy, but it is just as important that people get to crack jokes that they enjoy, and make what they think are fun or funny interjections. The key is to let yourself laugh with them, if at all possible, and proceed on with the game - because players cracking jokes and making interjections isn't an insult to the DM's story, it's a form of participation. My group goes on at least half a dozen joke or interjection-related tangents every time we get together for a session, but we do so because we've had the conversation of "Jokes and side-chat are great, but we should try to remember and get back to the game quickly after them because we only have about 4 hours to play."
As for the "guessing game", I encourage you to open yourself up to altering your plans to make some of their guesses end up being correct - again, if at all possible; I'm not saying you should have clown-shoed candy-wielding goblins suddenly invade the world... unless you are into that too. I'm saying whenever one of their guesses sounds decent, even if not as good as what you had planned to happen, but not terrible either, then maybe have their guess happen instead. Because this is, again, not an insult to your DMing, it's a form of participation - so if you can turn it into a tool that works for you, you will be able to engage your players more deeply (at least, that's been my experience in the time that I've incorporated player-input like these guesses into my campaigns) and also not have to flesh out quite as much detail when you put together your campaign plans because the players making guesses will help you fill things in with the game in-progress.
Now, for the final bit of advice on this topic, we go to what every DM should be told is step 1 of getting good at being a DM, but for some reason the books that are meant to help people learn don't put enough emphasis on; Sit down with your players and have a discussion, open, honest, and sincere, about what you each enjoy about the game and how you want to play it. That way you can all see what the rest of the people in the group are most interested in and begin to work as a team to fulfill as much of that for as many of you as is possible. Such conversation also helps because it can point out, without the feelings in the moment it happens clouding anyone's judgement, the things that irritate someone in the group, which enables the group to approach those aspects of play or personality mindfully (by which I mean it enables someone who does something that irritates someone else in the group to knowingly try not to be irritating, when otherwise they might have no idea the impact their actions/words will have and think it is the other person that is out of line in their being irritated without apparent cause). And lastly, it helps identify if the members of the group just aren't fitting together as a group - even people that are great friends otherwise and have no problems outside of when they are gaming together can be like oil and water when it comes to gaming.
Yes it is rude to say that. Cause then your players will think that they are just spectators in your game. Aside from that... Listening to your players is a must. Jokes will happen regardless but jokes that repeats every 5 seconds are rude and you should ask the player to take this a bit more seriously.
Players losing interest is often done because you took too long on one person. Share the spotlight more often going into pauses from players. Exemples... The player is buying stuff at an npc. After a few buy ins. You say while this is happening and then look at another player and its now his turn. Only to come back later on the npc guy. Juggling between players makes sure they listen later on.
I have yet to meet a player who do not like story. But i have met a lot of players who drops if you give too much story at once. You could also let the players not notice things. If they are surprised by something that was said then simply their chsracter wasnt paying attention. Make that in character.
Last but not least... Listen to your players. If they say things that are better then your actual story... Then let them have it and just forget your own. This is a group game not a book reading of your own fiction.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I always tell my players, if they are bored or not enjoying something to tell me, so I can speed things up or at least try to advance things along. However, I also have a policy of having people not play other games or surf the web while we play or they get the boot. Plain and simple, if someone is going to invest the time to be the DM, players can at least have the decency to pay attention to the game. If they want to be there, and I mean truly be there, they'll be paying attention. If not, you shouldn't miss them.
It happens that I had another session with the group and they got into Phandalin and decided to explore all the way around, split up the party and gather back in Stonehill's.
They just didn't tell me that they missed action of an encounter, the feedback was that they just enjoyed chatting with folks, gather information, etc.
I decided to make a dumb female voice acting when they interacted with a female NPC and it seems that they didn't expect that and started laughing about it.
Some are still shooting jokes, but it got sparse.
In other words, thanks for the tips around. I believe I'm progressing at DMing.
It is a constant journey and you will have sessions with varying engagement. It sounds like you have found the beauty of information gathering encounters or other non-combat encounters.
One thing I will sometimes do depending on what is going on, is make everyone roll for a check at critical points -- especially if there is something important about to happen they need to know about. People love rolling the dice. I try to do this in moderation maybe once or twice during a 3-4 hour session.
Limiting table talk has also made quite a difference. Before a session started I informed the group they are constantly moving forward. That session the group got into a debate on who was getting which items from a recently won battle, they were told they heard footsteps heading in their direction. The steps moved closer, they continued going through who should take what. Now, I also start rolling dice behind the screen (the result sometimes doesn't even matter) this increases the tension because players know a DM rolling dice is never a good thing.
You have the right direction though, get your group to tell you what they want more of and do what you can to give it to them. Nice work. Keep on challenging them.
If there is one thing i learned is that forcing them to go forward also stops them from role playing between themselves which often led to very good moments.
I definitely not put tension on them if they are talking about their stuff. i go forward when i see them losing interest.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Oh my god, I'm kind of having this problem too, I am a year 10 DM and 3 of my players are newb year sevens, 1 of them is a year 10 and calm and the last one is an experienced staff member, my kind of mentor, who introduced me to D&D and one of my year sevens never really pays attention. That same year seven is always arguing with another one of my year sevens and they don't stop. One of them pays attention but the other doesn't and I'm clueless on how to get them to be quiet just for a moment while I describe a scene, roll initiative or do rp and yet those two never shut up!
My advice is to become a school teacher for a few moments and take control of the table just long enough to say “This part is really important to the story and it will help you make smart decisions that may save your lives later on if you understand this much now. I promise to leave plenty of room for you to spread your Wings of Silliness, but you need to hear this part.”
Allow the players to do what they want, but run the game the way you want to run it.
I've found that my players, 3 of whom are new, have slowly moved more and more into the RP aspect, with one becoming more interested in his own backstory as his character has developed. They need time to learn as players, how to be good players. But it seems to be an organic experience.
In my last session the PCs found the name of a key NPC twice and nobody wrote it down or remembered it, which culminated in them accidentally releasing a Lich from her prison. That's on them. Players who don't listen and ignore the story should suffer for it, as hopefully the story is relevant to combat encounters. Didn't listen that the dragon can only be hurt by a Black Arrow and ignored it when they found it? Tough cheese.
In addition to the story elements and mysteries that others are suggesting, I don’t think there is any shame in being pretty transactional with your information. If a fleeing peasant says that they had to leave their grandpa’s heirloom sword at home while running away from the goblins, the player that’s paying the most attention will be the one that finds it. Maybe a traveling merchant they treat kindly mentions that his sister in the next town over will give them a discount on healing potions. Incentivize listening for details beyond just getting to hear about the cool stuff you have invented.
Also, there is the chance that your group just isn’t that invested in the world-building aspect, and sees DnD as only needing enough story to get them from one combat to the next. I had to learn the hard way from my players that they were definitely less interested in map-based minis battles than I expected (and hoped), and had to shift the focus of our sessions accordingly.
this whole discussion leads me to believe your problem lies in the linear aspect of your games.
many people would argue that railroad is bad and that open world is good. but those two things cannot really coexists together. for a "Story" in the way you are describing is not open ended. in a story book, the players are expected to just follow the story around and not really care about what their characters want or their needs. it is expected that the players will take up on clues and follow them. while in open world settings, you are droping them into your lore "World" and you just follow them as if i had put a camera on your shoulders and i wa sjust following you around.
the thing is... playing a pre made adventure and playing an open world sandbox is not the same thing.
many players loves the aspect of freedom, where they can do whatever they want, including but not limited to pissing on a stray cat if they want to.
sure they expect consequences, but they also expect to be able to do whatever "They" want. those people shouldn't be penalised just because they think differently and they definitely shouldn't be scolded for wanting something else then the other players.
you should always be telling your players right away what type of adventure you are running and that if they are not willing to part take in that adventure then they can discuss what they want and you should try to give them a bit of it once in a while. if they are not willing to make 50% of the road along with you, then they do not deserve to be at your table. its as simple as that.
exemple...
i told my players that i was gonna run an open world. exploration was gonna be the key to the adventure. they all said yes to it. they all enjoyed it up until recently. where i showed them the map again. with the fog of war revealed only to where they had gone..... they realised that in the end, they had half the story done in 1 year of campaign... only to realise they have only really explored 3% of the whole map. then i showed them the other map, the underground one... and again 5% at most. took me a while to realise it, but they are not going for it if it doesn't involve their characters. what my players want, truly... is for "their character story" to be told. for them to advance their own story. they do not care for the story of my bbeg who just wish world domination. all they want is their story to be evolving. but now that i showed them the map and reminded them that it was an exploration mission from the get go. they started using the map more. as they realised... its true, he's been great with us, he's been advancing our story... we have been shitty with him and have not even cared to do what we were here for to begin with.
the moral of the story is that there is two type of adventures you need to know about.
two types of players...
- Rail Road story, where you expect the story to resolves around the villain.
- Open World story, where the story revolves around each characters in the group and the vilain is just an excuse to put them together in a group.
you cannot expect players to go from one to another just because you want it.
so my advice to new DMs... and i know it will sound like more work...but...
be willing to add more depth to their characters. they will feel special when you do and that will get them more involved.
as you just showed them you listened to them. you're not just following a book story, you are following "their" story. and thats what they want more often then not.
exemple of this in action...
one of the player in my far west campaign is a tiefling who is seeking the soul of his father who was taken by a group of bandits. he didn't know where to start looking for and his character like all the others has been recruted by the corporation to explore an unexplored region. that player has taken the time to tell me his backstory... he has taken the time to tell me how his character reacts, how he works, how he feels. i could just go with my adventure and not care about how he plays... but thats not me, instead during a night, he dreamed... he woke up to his father calling him out. how do you think that player, who didn't care about the region he was in reacted to this ? i can tell you, now he was invested ! for i had just gotten his father involved in it !
listen to your players, be willing to incorporate their ideas into the adventures. even if they are pre made adventures.
i for once, ran 5 times lost mines of phandelver with 5 different groups and not a single time was the adventure the same. yet the writtings in the book hasn't changed.
but i just had to incorporate the reasons behind the players characters background and added every little details i could to those adventures. and everytimes i did that, my players were more involved with the adventure.
thats my take on the whole ordeal.
there are times where players will be fine with you rail roading them into your adventure and telling them what they should do or know.
but there are times where your players only want freedom to do what "they" want. and you should also reward those players.
if they become too irritating for the group, then just show them the door. but in 25 years of DMing... i had to do this door thing only about 3 times... that should tell you something.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
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--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I don't see any problem. If they're not paying attention to story elements, good information, or not listening when it's their turn, they're in the wrong. They came to play, you want to play and are putting in the time to run a game. If they aren't playing, tell them they should listen.
But there's the exception of if you're doing bad story telling, but if they don't say that, or say it without anything to back it up, you've done nothing wrong.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.