I run Descent into Avernus and realize that there are some issues. Can anyone give any tips or suggestion? (There are some spoiler about the content of DiA below)
1. I have 5 players and the strange thing is no one play a wizard or sorcerer. They have paladin, warlock, cleric etc. Most of them are damage dealers and two are healers. I didn't notice this until recently I realized that most of the monsters are devils and they have advantage on spell saving throw. It is clear that they know about the campaign and the kind of monster they will be dealing with. This make the party quite powerful - high AC, advantage saving throw and high force damage from warlock spell.
However this create backlash to the party, they are lack of utility spells such as fly so they can not leave Elturel and they can not come up with the other practical options. Finally I have to create one archmage NPC and offer them the fly spell as a solution. I wonder if they are still continue like this. I may need to keep improvise and give them easy solution otherwise it will not be able to continue the journey. Do you have any suggestion?
2. I believe that one or more of my players may know the content of DiA. They keep telling me that their characters are searching the glass window and pay respect. Clearly they know that this method will give them +2 magic weapon. I allow them to roll a skill check and they failed. After they left that dungeon, one player keep asking to go back and do it again. Finally they get the weapon.
3. The party is quite powerful now. Five of them can deal with 12 devils and no one down. After get rid of the warlord, they now have two demon grinders and many riders. It seem that travelling in Avernus is no problem at all. They said sitting in Demon Grinder is considered as the travelling so they get away with it and no one need to roll exhaustion roll. I applied Pervasive Evil but they seem not care much about changing the character's alignment.
In conclusion, I feel that DiA should create the journey that all players feel struggle during their time in Avernus and need to deal with the devils for survival or achieving their goal. However, my group seem not feel that way. They feel heroic and powerful. They tend to choose to "kill all devils" instead of dealing with them. I doubt If I allow them to confront Mahadi or Bel and then lose the combat, will it do any good to them?
1) Play the Devils smarter. They are legion, literally. If the encounters are too easy, bump them up
2) You only get to pray at the window once and I only allowed the two PCs who were proficient in Religion to roll. If you fail, you fail and don't get the weapon no matter how many times you go back.
3) How do they have two Demon Grinders if they can't leave Elturel? And those require Soul Coins to power and that power isn't very long. If they're of non-evil alignment they can only carry Soul Coins equal to their Constitution modifier.
Did they go Path of Demons or Path of Devils? Because Arkhan's troops alone would ruin their day, much less him, Krul, and his motley band.
Mahadi and Bel wouldn't fight by themselves. The party would be way outnumbered facing either of them and if they don't deal with Bel, they don't get the location of the Sword, so they, and Elturel are stick in Avernus forever.
Thank you! For clarification, they have already left Elturel because I created one NPC wizard with Fly spell to just send them off. This because they spent almost whole session discuss how to leave the city. They do not want to climb down the chain. To keep the story moving, I helped them out on this issue.
After they left Fort Knucklebone, they encountered Raggadragga then got the first Demon Grinder. I tried infernal warmachine machanic and created one chasing encounter for them with Kovik gang. After the chase stopped, we started normal combat and they killed the whole gang, then acquired the second Grinder. I missed the part about limit number of Soul Coins they can carry! Thank you. I will adjust this in my next session.
I have not yet decided which part will be taken but I think Path of Devils sound better.
Well, after Harruman's Hill, which is a very rough fight, they get to pick Demons or Devils, Lulu leaves it up to them. But there's some nasty surprises on both paths.
Remember, without cooperating and negotiating with most of the NPCs on the Paths, they won't get far and the souls of all of Elturel will be on them.
Also, if you think one of your players has already read the module and is using player knowledge then they are just ruining the fun for themselves and everyone else. Switch some stuff up and throw off their stride.
If someone has read the module and you find this to be a concern then change things up. Move magic items and encounters around while keeping the same feeling and flow. If there was a corridor with a trap, move the trap to a corridor that didn't have one. If the character who has read it marches fearlessly ahead not checking for traps due to meta knowledge then the character may end up triggering the trap. Keep some the same, mix other parts up so that the module won't be predictable.
Wizards have a difficult time in Avernus. Many creatures are magic resistant and immune to fire which takes some of their most iconic Wizard spells out of play. The right kind of wizard can still do well but it is much more of a challenge than usual. It isn't much of a surprise that the players might choose a different character. Most players with a modicum of experience know that fiends are often magic resistant and immune to fire so even if all they know about the adventure is the setting then many are much less likely to play a wizard. They don't need any details about the adventure to come to that conclusion.
Finally, if the party is finding things too easy then increase the level of difficulty of encounters.
"Punish" (see below) them REPEATEDLY for not having a mage. They should have taken at least one sorceror/wizard or at least a bard. A Warlock is not enough. In my personal opinion, the easiest way to do this is to change treasure into magic items that the caster types love but they can't use. Book says +2 sword? Nope it's a spellbook. Gold? No, it's an Instrument of the bards. A Hat of Wizardry. Headband of Intellect. Eventually one of them may wise up and multi-class. I would focus on the Warlock - make it painfully obvious he should take a level of bard or Sorcerer.
Do NOT give them any more NPC help - except training in Wizardry/Sorcery. They can't get out of someplace because no one can fly? They are stuck there. Suggest they level up till one of them learns how to fly.
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I run Descent into Avernus and realize that there are some issues. Can anyone give any tips or suggestion? (There are some spoiler about the content of DiA below)
1. I have 5 players and the strange thing is no one play a wizard or sorcerer. They have paladin, warlock, cleric etc. Most of them are damage dealers and two are healers. I didn't notice this until recently I realized that most of the monsters are devils and they have advantage on spell saving throw. It is clear that they know about the campaign and the kind of monster they will be dealing with. This make the party quite powerful - high AC, advantage saving throw and high force damage from warlock spell.
However this create backlash to the party, they are lack of utility spells such as fly so they can not leave Elturel and they can not come up with the other practical options. Finally I have to create one archmage NPC and offer them the fly spell as a solution. I wonder if they are still continue like this. I may need to keep improvise and give them easy solution otherwise it will not be able to continue the journey. Do you have any suggestion?
2. I believe that one or more of my players may know the content of DiA. They keep telling me that their characters are searching the glass window and pay respect. Clearly they know that this method will give them +2 magic weapon. I allow them to roll a skill check and they failed. After they left that dungeon, one player keep asking to go back and do it again. Finally they get the weapon.
3. The party is quite powerful now. Five of them can deal with 12 devils and no one down. After get rid of the warlord, they now have two demon grinders and many riders. It seem that travelling in Avernus is no problem at all. They said sitting in Demon Grinder is considered as the travelling so they get away with it and no one need to roll exhaustion roll. I applied Pervasive Evil but they seem not care much about changing the character's alignment.
In conclusion, I feel that DiA should create the journey that all players feel struggle during their time in Avernus and need to deal with the devils for survival or achieving their goal. However, my group seem not feel that way. They feel heroic and powerful. They tend to choose to "kill all devils" instead of dealing with them. I doubt If I allow them to confront Mahadi or Bel and then lose the combat, will it do any good to them?
1) Play the Devils smarter. They are legion, literally. If the encounters are too easy, bump them up
2) You only get to pray at the window once and I only allowed the two PCs who were proficient in Religion to roll. If you fail, you fail and don't get the weapon no matter how many times you go back.
3) How do they have two Demon Grinders if they can't leave Elturel? And those require Soul Coins to power and that power isn't very long. If they're of non-evil alignment they can only carry Soul Coins equal to their Constitution modifier.
Did they go Path of Demons or Path of Devils? Because Arkhan's troops alone would ruin their day, much less him, Krul, and his motley band.
Mahadi and Bel wouldn't fight by themselves. The party would be way outnumbered facing either of them and if they don't deal with Bel, they don't get the location of the Sword, so they, and Elturel are stick in Avernus forever.
Thank you! For clarification, they have already left Elturel because I created one NPC wizard with Fly spell to just send them off. This because they spent almost whole session discuss how to leave the city. They do not want to climb down the chain. To keep the story moving, I helped them out on this issue.
After they left Fort Knucklebone, they encountered Raggadragga then got the first Demon Grinder. I tried infernal warmachine machanic and created one chasing encounter for them with Kovik gang. After the chase stopped, we started normal combat and they killed the whole gang, then acquired the second Grinder. I missed the part about limit number of Soul Coins they can carry! Thank you. I will adjust this in my next session.
I have not yet decided which part will be taken but I think Path of Devils sound better.
Well, after Harruman's Hill, which is a very rough fight, they get to pick Demons or Devils, Lulu leaves it up to them. But there's some nasty surprises on both paths.
Remember, without cooperating and negotiating with most of the NPCs on the Paths, they won't get far and the souls of all of Elturel will be on them.
Also, if you think one of your players has already read the module and is using player knowledge then they are just ruining the fun for themselves and everyone else. Switch some stuff up and throw off their stride.
If someone has read the module and you find this to be a concern then change things up. Move magic items and encounters around while keeping the same feeling and flow. If there was a corridor with a trap, move the trap to a corridor that didn't have one. If the character who has read it marches fearlessly ahead not checking for traps due to meta knowledge then the character may end up triggering the trap. Keep some the same, mix other parts up so that the module won't be predictable.
Wizards have a difficult time in Avernus. Many creatures are magic resistant and immune to fire which takes some of their most iconic Wizard spells out of play. The right kind of wizard can still do well but it is much more of a challenge than usual. It isn't much of a surprise that the players might choose a different character. Most players with a modicum of experience know that fiends are often magic resistant and immune to fire so even if all they know about the adventure is the setting then many are much less likely to play a wizard. They don't need any details about the adventure to come to that conclusion.
Finally, if the party is finding things too easy then increase the level of difficulty of encounters.
"Punish" (see below) them REPEATEDLY for not having a mage. They should have taken at least one sorceror/wizard or at least a bard. A Warlock is not enough. In my personal opinion, the easiest way to do this is to change treasure into magic items that the caster types love but they can't use. Book says +2 sword? Nope it's a spellbook. Gold? No, it's an Instrument of the bards. A Hat of Wizardry. Headband of Intellect. Eventually one of them may wise up and multi-class. I would focus on the Warlock - make it painfully obvious he should take a level of bard or Sorcerer.
Do NOT give them any more NPC help - except training in Wizardry/Sorcery. They can't get out of someplace because no one can fly? They are stuck there. Suggest they level up till one of them learns how to fly.