I have 4 lvl 3 players, who are faceing off against 5 bugbears, 4 giant spiders, a cr 2 wizard (2nd lvl spells) with web/shield/darkness/fairy fire/invisibility and a cr 3 assassin.
There are 4 exits, 1 is blocked, 1 the badies come through and 2 open.
Because they rolled their stats they were able to slug through encounters much above tbeir weight class, so i am afrait they will bite more off then they can chew.
I tried to intimidate them, i tried to roll openly some skill checks to indicate there is quite a few hiden NPCs.
The players already used half their spells and half their hps.
Any ideas how i can avoid a TPK without the BBEG running away or acting stupid?
Would capturing the party be an option if they stay and fight and fail? (they could then attempt an escape)
Most characters will never surrender, ever. And if you knock them unconscious, then they'll be (a). railroaded into having to escape, and (b). likely to die trying to escape from a prison without weapons, armor, or spell components.
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All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
I agree with the above. If they don't run and their stats aren't high enough to save them then the most reasonable alternative is capture.
However, exactly how the scenario plays out depends on the character classes, how they are equipped, the tactical situation and whether there is anything the characters can do to find an advantage while minimizing the attacks the opponents can make that reach them. For example, if they have some AoE damage spells and can limit the creatures attacking them to one at a time then they might have options.
P.S. Is it a drow wizard? I'm not sure how they get faerie fire otherwise since it isn't a wizard spell.
Would capturing the party be an option if they stay and fight and fail? (they could then attempt an escape)
Most characters will never surrender, ever. And if you knock them unconscious, then they'll be (a). railroaded into having to escape, and (b). likely to die trying to escape from a prison without weapons, armor, or spell components.
I've run "great escape" scenarios before...you just have to make sure you set them up for success if they do the right things. Place most of their belongings close to their cell (not all, let them work for it a bit). make sure they are aware enough time has passed that they have regained spell slots and hp (ie long rest). Not all spells require material components, so they shouldn't be helpless...Give them an opportunity (bribe, coerce, enchant a guard, find an old hidden pick and pick the lock, ambush during mealtime, etc) and see what happens.
Railroading an escape scenario is perfectly fine for a session (or two)...its no different than any other dungeon crawl...and it ultimately is their choices (not running) that led them here.
I should just like to point out: Railroading and suffering the consequences of one's own actions are not the same thing. In this case, assuming the players choose to punch something above their weight rather than run and are captured for it, that happened as a result of their choice, not the DM forcing them to.
Sometimes a player gets their character killed by doing something unwise. I've done it on more than one occasion, and I'm always most satisfied when my character suffers or dies for it.
That said, if you really want to avoid killing everyone... chat to the players outside of the game. Make them understand that death is a possibility. If they still choose to go ahead, go for it. If they change their mind, retcon a bit. If everyone agrees to it, it won't hurt the game. May even make it better if they go ahead with a better understanding that death is always a consequence.
Your players are overextending themselves, so it sounds, but you need to be careful with how you manage this or they may take it to the other extreme.
I would simply begin this encounter with the "boss" saying, "Oh look, there's only four (or whatever number they have) of these little guys, and they look like they've had a bad day." He get's a big grin and continues, "Well, it's about to get much worse!" Hopefully this will plant the seed in their minds that they are outmatched in the present encounter and retreating is an option that they need to consider.
If they get captured, that is a problem of their own making, so don't let them say they were railroaded on that. But you don't want them to take such a setback that they never do much before taking another long rest, so the campaign becomes one long rest after another. That will become un-fun for you and then for them when you start to do something about it like have wandering monsters disrupt their long rest.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Is the encounter already underway? Can the enemies come through in waves? The turn before each wave you can mention how they can hear more running footsteps, grunts and roars coming from that entrance. Each wave doesn't have to wait for the first group to die, they can overlap, the first 3 or 4 turns more enemies continually pile out. By turn 5 the players may think this is a never ending flood of bad guys. Even if all the enemies are on the battlefield, you could make it sound like even more enemies are coming. Added to that you could describe how with reinforcements on the way, the group look around and see their opponents in good shape, bolstered by the fact more are coming, while their party members are looking tired, battered and bruised in comparison. If they still choose to stay you could add it with the ominous DM question of "Are you sure you want to stay?", that is the last hint to drop as a DM. If they don't get the hint, then the players will have to accept the consequences of their actions.
As the previous post mentioned, talk to the group, that death is always possible, you will not hold their hand through an entire campaign. The players may be happy with that. You may learn that the players are looking for something more light hearted, to always win and be the heroes. In which case you may need to adjust the tone of the campaign if you still find that enjoyable to DM.
Finally if it still goes ahead with the fight and they go down, in the location is it possible that the party could be left for dead and the bad guys move on. I did something similar to my group, but it was in the wilderness. With them all down, I had them roll, 2 pulled through waking the next morning, with exhaustion points, while the other 3 were dead. The group were stripped of their magical items, coin, only left were a few worthless trinkets that some had sentimental meaning. The survivors then had to return to a city, begging for aid, sacrificing what little they had left and begrudgingly joining an organisation who acted as a sponsor to bring back their comrades. This left them in debt to this organisation and now serving them, doing stuff that they would rather not be doing morally or tasks that took them the opposite direction of what they personally wanted to achieve.
Are the players part of any organization, or have any allies? if they do, their allies could show up to rescue them. If they don't have any, maybe some potential allies/organization could come to their aid, and strongly suggest a retreat.
What if you give them the old "Do you really want to stay? I mean really want to stay?" and then they say yes, and you look at them a little and say '"Are you absolutely sure you want to stay? In case I wasn't clear, there are two viable exits, and I don't think the large group of uninjured monsters has noticed you yet."
Sometimes those kind of out of character hints can save a whole campaign from going off the rails if the players are about to do something really stupid.
You could have them be captured and, perhaps if the BBEG hasn't worked out their motivations in stopping him, he can sell them as slaves and they will have to fight their way out of being gladiators to then come back and try again.
Or he can pull the "how to kill James bond" approach and tie them up with all their stuff on a slow moving boat heading for a waterfall with one hopelessly inept guard to make sure that they all die?
Or you could have an NPC shadowy figure appear and shout for them to follow them if they want to live.
Or have the monsters distracted by some other disturbance, and have some monsters chase an NPC away into a different exit. Maybe it's a goblin who's stolen something that the BBEG is really Really not happy with being stolen, to pique their curiosity. The adventurers might try to follow them, kill the couple of monsters and then get whatever the goblin had stolen?
There's no point in pulling punches because it will not help the players learn their limits, though you could have the BBEG hold some forces back, and then have a messenger run in for the BBEG, who immediately leaves with the reinforcements to deal with something more problematic, sealing the corridor behind them to stop the party following. Make sure it's still a bad fight, so the players realise that if they hadn't left, they would have died.
Don't be afraid to kill one or two of them. Then those players' next characters can meet up with the remaining party in prison and they can do a jail break. It may seem like railroading, but it's the only other logical next step next to "they just kill everyone", and the deaths of the other PC's makes it so there have still been consequences for the players choices.
What i did, before the battle started: i spelled out all possible exit, openly rolled stealth checks for the spiders who got into position (they all rolled better then the passiv perceptions of the group, so the players only knew i rolled a handful of d20), having the big bad guy announce his presence and try to intimidate them and several times describe how the darkness spell blocks their line of sight between the bad guys and themself.
First they sit there and stare and then when the darkness moves towards them, one of them circles around the spell traping himself between 4 spiders the bugbears and the BBG. Who on their turn Grapple,Restrain,knock him prone and hit him for 50% of his HP. Players turn now again.
I keep you updated how it goes on, partly just to spell it out for myself and to see if anyone got good ideas.
The situation:
I have 4 lvl 3 players, who are faceing off against 5 bugbears, 4 giant spiders, a cr 2 wizard (2nd lvl spells) with web/shield/darkness/fairy fire/invisibility and a cr 3 assassin.
There are 4 exits, 1 is blocked, 1 the badies come through and 2 open.
Because they rolled their stats they were able to slug through encounters much above tbeir weight class, so i am afrait they will bite more off then they can chew.
I tried to intimidate them, i tried to roll openly some skill checks to indicate there is quite a few hiden NPCs.
The players already used half their spells and half their hps.
Any ideas how i can avoid a TPK without the BBEG running away or acting stupid?
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]Would capturing the party be an option if they stay and fight and fail? (they could then attempt an escape)
Most characters will never surrender, ever. And if you knock them unconscious, then they'll be (a). railroaded into having to escape, and (b). likely to die trying to escape from a prison without weapons, armor, or spell components.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
I agree with the above. If they don't run and their stats aren't high enough to save them then the most reasonable alternative is capture.
However, exactly how the scenario plays out depends on the character classes, how they are equipped, the tactical situation and whether there is anything the characters can do to find an advantage while minimizing the attacks the opponents can make that reach them. For example, if they have some AoE damage spells and can limit the creatures attacking them to one at a time then they might have options.
P.S. Is it a drow wizard? I'm not sure how they get faerie fire otherwise since it isn't a wizard spell.
I've run "great escape" scenarios before...you just have to make sure you set them up for success if they do the right things. Place most of their belongings close to their cell (not all, let them work for it a bit). make sure they are aware enough time has passed that they have regained spell slots and hp (ie long rest). Not all spells require material components, so they shouldn't be helpless...Give them an opportunity (bribe, coerce, enchant a guard, find an old hidden pick and pick the lock, ambush during mealtime, etc) and see what happens.
Railroading an escape scenario is perfectly fine for a session (or two)...its no different than any other dungeon crawl...and it ultimately is their choices (not running) that led them here.
Since the players don't know how many NPCs are hidden, then you can modify this aspect of the encounter.
I should just like to point out: Railroading and suffering the consequences of one's own actions are not the same thing. In this case, assuming the players choose to punch something above their weight rather than run and are captured for it, that happened as a result of their choice, not the DM forcing them to.
Kill 'em all.
Sometimes a player gets their character killed by doing something unwise. I've done it on more than one occasion, and I'm always most satisfied when my character suffers or dies for it.
That said, if you really want to avoid killing everyone... chat to the players outside of the game. Make them understand that death is a possibility. If they still choose to go ahead, go for it. If they change their mind, retcon a bit. If everyone agrees to it, it won't hurt the game. May even make it better if they go ahead with a better understanding that death is always a consequence.
Your players are overextending themselves, so it sounds, but you need to be careful with how you manage this or they may take it to the other extreme.
I would simply begin this encounter with the "boss" saying, "Oh look, there's only four (or whatever number they have) of these little guys, and they look like they've had a bad day." He get's a big grin and continues, "Well, it's about to get much worse!" Hopefully this will plant the seed in their minds that they are outmatched in the present encounter and retreating is an option that they need to consider.
If they get captured, that is a problem of their own making, so don't let them say they were railroaded on that. But you don't want them to take such a setback that they never do much before taking another long rest, so the campaign becomes one long rest after another. That will become un-fun for you and then for them when you start to do something about it like have wandering monsters disrupt their long rest.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Is the encounter already underway? Can the enemies come through in waves? The turn before each wave you can mention how they can hear more running footsteps, grunts and roars coming from that entrance. Each wave doesn't have to wait for the first group to die, they can overlap, the first 3 or 4 turns more enemies continually pile out. By turn 5 the players may think this is a never ending flood of bad guys. Even if all the enemies are on the battlefield, you could make it sound like even more enemies are coming. Added to that you could describe how with reinforcements on the way, the group look around and see their opponents in good shape, bolstered by the fact more are coming, while their party members are looking tired, battered and bruised in comparison. If they still choose to stay you could add it with the ominous DM question of "Are you sure you want to stay?", that is the last hint to drop as a DM. If they don't get the hint, then the players will have to accept the consequences of their actions.
As the previous post mentioned, talk to the group, that death is always possible, you will not hold their hand through an entire campaign. The players may be happy with that. You may learn that the players are looking for something more light hearted, to always win and be the heroes. In which case you may need to adjust the tone of the campaign if you still find that enjoyable to DM.
Finally if it still goes ahead with the fight and they go down, in the location is it possible that the party could be left for dead and the bad guys move on. I did something similar to my group, but it was in the wilderness. With them all down, I had them roll, 2 pulled through waking the next morning, with exhaustion points, while the other 3 were dead. The group were stripped of their magical items, coin, only left were a few worthless trinkets that some had sentimental meaning. The survivors then had to return to a city, begging for aid, sacrificing what little they had left and begrudgingly joining an organisation who acted as a sponsor to bring back their comrades. This left them in debt to this organisation and now serving them, doing stuff that they would rather not be doing morally or tasks that took them the opposite direction of what they personally wanted to achieve.
If you let the players make poor decisions and then insulate them from the consequences, plan for a game where you have reckless players.
Are the players part of any organization, or have any allies? if they do, their allies could show up to rescue them. If they don't have any, maybe some potential allies/organization could come to their aid, and strongly suggest a retreat.
What if you give them the old "Do you really want to stay? I mean really want to stay?" and then they say yes, and you look at them a little and say '"Are you absolutely sure you want to stay? In case I wasn't clear, there are two viable exits, and I don't think the large group of uninjured monsters has noticed you yet."
Sometimes those kind of out of character hints can save a whole campaign from going off the rails if the players are about to do something really stupid.
You could have them be captured and, perhaps if the BBEG hasn't worked out their motivations in stopping him, he can sell them as slaves and they will have to fight their way out of being gladiators to then come back and try again.
Or he can pull the "how to kill James bond" approach and tie them up with all their stuff on a slow moving boat heading for a waterfall with one hopelessly inept guard to make sure that they all die?
Or you could have an NPC shadowy figure appear and shout for them to follow them if they want to live.
Or have the monsters distracted by some other disturbance, and have some monsters chase an NPC away into a different exit. Maybe it's a goblin who's stolen something that the BBEG is really Really not happy with being stolen, to pique their curiosity. The adventurers might try to follow them, kill the couple of monsters and then get whatever the goblin had stolen?
There's no point in pulling punches because it will not help the players learn their limits, though you could have the BBEG hold some forces back, and then have a messenger run in for the BBEG, who immediately leaves with the reinforcements to deal with something more problematic, sealing the corridor behind them to stop the party following. Make sure it's still a bad fight, so the players realise that if they hadn't left, they would have died.
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Don't be afraid to kill one or two of them. Then those players' next characters can meet up with the remaining party in prison and they can do a jail break. It may seem like railroading, but it's the only other logical next step next to "they just kill everyone", and the deaths of the other PC's makes it so there have still been consequences for the players choices.
What i did, before the battle started: i spelled out all possible exit, openly rolled stealth checks for the spiders who got into position (they all rolled better then the passiv perceptions of the group, so the players only knew i rolled a handful of d20), having the big bad guy announce his presence and try to intimidate them and several times describe how the darkness spell blocks their line of sight between the bad guys and themself.
First they sit there and stare and then when the darkness moves towards them, one of them circles around the spell traping himself between 4 spiders the bugbears and the BBG. Who on their turn Grapple,Restrain,knock him prone and hit him for 50% of his HP. Players turn now again.
I keep you updated how it goes on, partly just to spell it out for myself and to see if anyone got good ideas.
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]