What would you do if a player rolled, say,14,10X2,7X2,6? would you let them re roll those 3, the whole set, or none, and make them use those stats until they successfully end their character? (however they chouse to do that)
Ive set up a poll, plese feel free to explain your answer!
(to explain further, what l mean by "would your answer be affected by race bonus" l meant, like, if you rolled a 6,8,9,9,10,10, and chose to be a half elf, you could put the 8 in chr, and use the other race bonus' on the 9s, making 6 the only number below 10. the character would still be bad stat wise, haveing nothing over 10. Would you let them re roll, even if they were able to mitigate the damage from the bad roll? or would the player have to roll multiple 5-7s to be allowed a reroll?)
Thanks for the feedback everyone! thanks to the advice, i turned a roll of: 17,6,7,7,15,18, into a 75 year old half elf divine soul sorcerer, who do to their old age and poor health is chair bound, but is very witty and charismatic. (final array after race bonus is, in order:6,7,7,16,18,20.) They are also a high ranking noble.
Edit: it just occurred to me. Unless you are actually at the table rolling the character to use for that session/campaign, you can just use the bad roll for a npc, rather then your pc!
(l love makeing characters on here, and l love rolling, cause it gives me ideas for characters, (the stats make me think of what race/class combo will work best) though l have never actually played a game, so this is mostly for me to express the idea. Cause like, just because you made a character on dndbeyond, doesn't mean you have to play it.)
I’ve always been of the opinion that low stats make the best characters. It can be a ton of fun to play a low-stat character, and a TON of fun to roleplay them. Moreover, 5e is very forgiving for weaker characters, so there’s no reason for them to be overly strong. “Weak” is also relative: in some older editions, characters had average stats of 10, and were lucky to get a +2 in their primary stat! Even if this wasn’t true, I’m still frustrated by roleplayers who can’t deal with the possibility of death, or powergamers who don’t want to play unless they’re a god. And above all, if you’re not going to accept the results, what’s the fun in rolling?
For all those reasons, I don’t let players reroll horrible stats, and when I play, I love low numbers!
When I do re-rolls, I have them do the whole set over. And I would let someone re-roll what you listed, yes. I mean, if you’re going to make them “end” their character, they can just go jump off a bridge, or retire to become a farmer. So I’d cut out that step.
I would normally be more concerned about the overall total of the six rolls more so than the individual results of each roll. As Naivara stated, a low stat (or two) can make roleplaying the character much more interesting. It's the weaknesses as well as the strengths that help define who the character is and how they accomplish their deeds.
Having said that, many players aren't going to enjoy having a character that has all of their stats at 10 and below. So I would assess what the total score of the six rolls is. If it's below 60, then I would probably allow them to reroll their character. Even if they had a couple decent scores, most of the results would have been fairly low. Not unplayable per se, but it the penalties probably outweigh any benefits. While it's ridiculous to expect one's character to have +3 or better in every stat, I also understand that it's difficult to be heroic if you have a penalty on most stats.
The other aspect that I consider is how well (or not) did the other players roll. It's one thing for everybody to have some lower rolls on their stats. It's another thing if most of the group are 12+ in their stats and one or two people are barely exceeding 10 in some of them. Honestly, because of this last reason, I typically have players use a point buy system or modified array to ensure that everybody is on somewhat equal grounding. I'm less concerned about some low stats and more concerned that players who had some "lucky rolls" always tend to overshadow other players.
Matt Colville (and I think Mercer as well) has rules like... you must have at least 1 stat over 15, and then the total has to add up to something. If BOTH of those are not true, you re-roll the entire array.
I don't actually use rolls though. I use an amped up stat array (17-15-13-12-10-8).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
When I do re-rolls, I have them do the whole set over. And I would let someone re-roll what you listed, yes. I mean, if you’re going to make them “end” their character, they can just go jump off a bridge, or retire to become a farmer. So I’d cut out that step.
Exactly! l couldn't have said it better myself!
(Tldr of the next paragraph: l have a lot of characters i've never actualy played, and most of them are point buy)
(also, yeah, 62.5% of my characters are point buy for that reason, makeing it so the only low stat is something l can manage, like a 8 str wizard. That said, the other 37.5% of my characters (45 out of 120 to be exact) have been rolled, for the fun of the randomness, and the ability to get 16-18s, sure l can get 5-10 (3 or 4 if l'm super unlucky, but that hasn't happened yet) (also the sound of the math rocks going click clack makes the newly awakened dice goblin happy,lol) ) (oh, fyi, i dont actualy have 120 characters. Of those 45 rolled characters, 16 can be called characters, and even then, they are more like molds waiteing to be filled, if you know what l mean) so thats 29 character slots with just the stats rolled ( l went a bit crazy, but l had fun) but yeah, its only 91 actual characters, give or take 11 WIPs, for a total of 80 full characters.) (characters made just for fun. Have not been used in a actual game,lol)
I recently ran into this with my new character for a game. He's a paladin from a forgotten tribe who thinks it is his destiny to save the world. He's not doing so well at it.
When I made the character I had planned for him to be fresh from stealing the sacred warhammer of the tribe and going off to fulfil his destiny, but when I rolled the stats I got 16, 16, 13, 9, 9, 8! Not brilliant for what was supposed to be an intelligent, charismatic fighter - I'd hoped for more 12-ish's!
As a result, my Intelligence, Wisdon and Dexterity got the dumps and charisma & constitution got the 16's, and strength the 13. As a tiefling I ended up with char 18, which I wanted, but the intelligence being only 10 (after +1) meant all my nature-related stuff was average, not representative of a character who was raised in the religious service of the god of the forest!
So, I changed the story a bit, working with the DM. Now the town he left has long since been destroyed, and Sal (my characters full name is "salvation") has been wandering the wastes, taking odd jobs as hired muscle whilst still wanting to save the world but not being very proactive about it. He's also been in a prison due to crossing an industrialist who bribed the constabulary to arrest him, but was good enough to pay for the deluxe prison where the prisoners are petrified for their stay so that they don't age. Sal awoke to find all the forests were gone, the world had both suffered and survived a steampunk machine uprising and that society had already started to rebuild, and so his knowledge of the subject has slipped from practice to myth - explaining his lowered intelligence. The world is so unfamiliar to him that he doesn't really understand it, hence low wisdom. and low dex is because he is still suffering the after-effects of petrification.
Now, thanks to low rolls, my characters story is significantly cooler and more in-depth, and fits well with his statistics. I desperately wanted to reroll them, but I did think - why bother rolling at all if you're not going to roll with it! I have 3 good stats and 3 bad ones - I can work with that! that's why there's a party of people - let others do the sneaking and the thinking, I'll do the talking and the hitting!
A good rule of thumb for stats is that if you do not have at least two 15 or higher stats, you should be allowed a mulligan. The reason being, you should be able to feel heroic playing your character, unless you specifically want to play an unoptomized character.
I allow players to reroll, and sometimes they don’t want to even when the stats are low. The point is everyone should have fun.
Key words: boring stats
My standard for stats that need re-roll is “other”: if it is a set of boring stats. A typical example: all 6 rolls are between 10 and 12. If they have one or two high rolls (15+) and one or two low rolls (7-), that’s ideal, because their character will have something they are good at and something they are bad at. Both contribute to having fun.
Oh here we go again... "Rolling for d6 is perfectly acceptable for creating chars, unless of course the player will not accept the vagaries of randomization, at which point we throw out the rules..."
Player wants to roll 4d6. Then they live with the results. Or, maybe, just use the Point Buy system laid out explicitly in the PHB.
I solve this problem by not allowing people to roll for stats at all.
Yup. It establishes a baseline that every single player starts with. There is zero chance for some char to have an innate set of abilities that the other chars do not, and that makes it easier for a DM to run a game. Now, can better players design better characters? Yes. But there no one with a one, two, or three ASI headstart on everyone else.
You know, it's funny... I use a stat array for my game with my players.
I'm slowly exploring solo D&D, and for that? I rolled 4D6 and dropped the lowest. I did agree with myself, since solo can be brutal, that if I came out worse than the standard array, I would let myself use the standard array. I ended up with 16-16-13-12-11-10, which is marginally better than the standard array, so I kept it.
Ordinarily I would not let a player roll first and then choose the array if not liking the roll, but I figure for soloing, there is nobody to care, and you have to make some concessions even when playing solo-built modules (the writers even tell you to make some that I probably won't -- I am only 1 session into it).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
It's ultimately up to how your group wishes to do it. My group has a specific way we roll and we keep out stats regardless. We have also allowed players to choose the Standard array instead of rolling if they didn't feel like rolling (You pick one or the other, you don't get to roll and then pick the standard array). It works well for my group but it won't work for everyone.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
You pick one or the other, you don't get to roll and then pick the standard array
Yes, that is what I would say if someone wanted to roll....
I only "cheated" (or theoretically would have allowed it with borked rolls) with my solo game, because it is one character playing solo against whatever comes his way. But even if I were soloing with 3 or 4 characters, I'd have to decide to roll and then keep what I get... or take the array... first. No swapping over if you don't like the rolls.
I do the same thing with hit points. When they level, they can take the average as standard, OR roll. But if they roll a 3 on 1d10 and don't like it, too bad -- they keep it. They can choose either method but they can't roll "to see if they beat the average" and then otherwise keep the average. That is too gamey. (Though I do allow rerolls of 1s because 1s suck on rolling hit points).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
No rerolling. I assuming the group agreed to roll stats. Then this result. When you go random, you have to accept the bad with the good. I do suggest the standard array or 27 point buy.
NNCHRIS: SOUL THIEF, MASTER OF THE ARCANE, AND KING OF NEW YORKNN Gdl Creator of Ilheia and her Knights of the Fallen Stars ldG Lesser Student of Technomancy [undergrad student in computer science] Supporter of the 2014 rules, and a MASSIVE Homebrewer. Come to me all ye who seek salvation in wording thy brews! Open to homebrew trades at any time!! Or feel free to request HB, and Ill see if I can get it done for ya! Characters (Outdated)
You pick one or the other, you don't get to roll and then pick the standard arrayI do the same thing with hit points. When they level, they can take the average as standard, OR roll. But if they roll a 3 on 1d10 and don't like it, too bad -- they keep it. They can choose either method but they can't roll "to see if they beat the average" and then otherwise keep the average. That is too gamey. (Though I do allow rerolls of 1s because 1s suck on rolling hit points).
I had an old DM who’s method I adopted for HP. Player rolls in the open, DM rolls behind the screen. Player can choose to keep their roll, or go with the (unknown) DM roll.
You know, it's funny... I use a stat array for my game with my players.
I'm slowly exploring solo D&D, and for that? I rolled 4D6 and dropped the lowest. I did agree with myself, since solo can be brutal, that if I came out worse than the standard array, I would let myself use the standard array. I ended up with 16-16-13-12-11-10, which is marginally better than the standard array, so I kept it.
Ordinarily I would not let a player roll first and then choose the array if not liking the roll, but I figure for soloing, there is nobody to care, and you have to make some concessions even when playing solo-built modules (the writers even tell you to make some that I probably won't -- I am only 1 session into it).
Not related to the thread, but I am super curious: What class/ species did the player choose for a solo adventure.
In my latest campaign as a PC, the DM does this: everyone does 4d6 (drop lowest), but you can choose another player's array if you prefer it.
1. This is good for encounter balance. If someone rolls really well, then the whole party is going to be stronger.
2. What you sometimes get is one array that is good for SAD and one that is good for MAD. So not everyone chooses the "best" array because that might be different depending on what you are going for.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
What would you do if a player rolled, say,14,10X2,7X2,6? would you let them re roll those 3, the whole set, or none, and make them use those stats until they successfully end their character? (however they chouse to do that)
Ive set up a poll, plese feel free to explain your answer!
(to explain further, what l mean by "would your answer be affected by race bonus" l meant, like, if you rolled a 6,8,9,9,10,10, and chose to be a half elf, you could put the 8 in chr, and use the other race bonus' on the 9s, making 6 the only number below 10. the character would still be bad stat wise, haveing nothing over 10. Would you let them re roll, even if they were able to mitigate the damage from the bad roll? or would the player have to roll multiple 5-7s to be allowed a reroll?)
Thanks for the feedback everyone! thanks to the advice, i turned a roll of: 17,6,7,7,15,18, into a 75 year old half elf divine soul sorcerer, who do to their old age and poor health is chair bound, but is very witty and charismatic. (final array after race bonus is, in order:6,7,7,16,18,20.) They are also a high ranking noble.
Edit: it just occurred to me. Unless you are actually at the table rolling the character to use for that session/campaign, you can just use the bad roll for a npc, rather then your pc!
(l love makeing characters on here, and l love rolling, cause it gives me ideas for characters, (the stats make me think of what race/class combo will work best) though l have never actually played a game, so this is mostly for me to express the idea. Cause like, just because you made a character on dndbeyond, doesn't mean you have to play it.)
I’ve always been of the opinion that low stats make the best characters. It can be a ton of fun to play a low-stat character, and a TON of fun to roleplay them. Moreover, 5e is very forgiving for weaker characters, so there’s no reason for them to be overly strong. “Weak” is also relative: in some older editions, characters had average stats of 10, and were lucky to get a +2 in their primary stat! Even if this wasn’t true, I’m still frustrated by roleplayers who can’t deal with the possibility of death, or powergamers who don’t want to play unless they’re a god. And above all, if you’re not going to accept the results, what’s the fun in rolling?
For all those reasons, I don’t let players reroll horrible stats, and when I play, I love low numbers!
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
When I do re-rolls, I have them do the whole set over. And I would let someone re-roll what you listed, yes.
I mean, if you’re going to make them “end” their character, they can just go jump off a bridge, or retire to become a farmer. So I’d cut out that step.
I would normally be more concerned about the overall total of the six rolls more so than the individual results of each roll. As Naivara stated, a low stat (or two) can make roleplaying the character much more interesting. It's the weaknesses as well as the strengths that help define who the character is and how they accomplish their deeds.
Having said that, many players aren't going to enjoy having a character that has all of their stats at 10 and below. So I would assess what the total score of the six rolls is. If it's below 60, then I would probably allow them to reroll their character. Even if they had a couple decent scores, most of the results would have been fairly low. Not unplayable per se, but it the penalties probably outweigh any benefits. While it's ridiculous to expect one's character to have +3 or better in every stat, I also understand that it's difficult to be heroic if you have a penalty on most stats.
The other aspect that I consider is how well (or not) did the other players roll. It's one thing for everybody to have some lower rolls on their stats. It's another thing if most of the group are 12+ in their stats and one or two people are barely exceeding 10 in some of them. Honestly, because of this last reason, I typically have players use a point buy system or modified array to ensure that everybody is on somewhat equal grounding. I'm less concerned about some low stats and more concerned that players who had some "lucky rolls" always tend to overshadow other players.
Matt Colville (and I think Mercer as well) has rules like... you must have at least 1 stat over 15, and then the total has to add up to something. If BOTH of those are not true, you re-roll the entire array.
I don't actually use rolls though. I use an amped up stat array (17-15-13-12-10-8).
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Exactly! l couldn't have said it better myself!
(Tldr of the next paragraph: l have a lot of characters i've never actualy played, and most of them are point buy)
(also, yeah, 62.5% of my characters are point buy for that reason, makeing it so the only low stat is something l can manage, like a 8 str wizard. That said, the other 37.5% of my characters (45 out of 120 to be exact) have been rolled, for the fun of the randomness, and the ability to get 16-18s, sure l can get 5-10 (3 or 4 if l'm super unlucky, but that hasn't happened yet) (also the sound of the math rocks going click clack makes the newly awakened dice goblin happy,lol) ) (oh, fyi, i dont actualy have 120 characters. Of those 45 rolled characters, 16 can be called characters, and even then, they are more like molds waiteing to be filled, if you know what l mean) so thats 29 character slots with just the stats rolled ( l went a bit crazy, but l had fun) but yeah, its only 91 actual characters, give or take 11 WIPs, for a total of 80 full characters.) (characters made just for fun. Have not been used in a actual game,lol)
I recently ran into this with my new character for a game. He's a paladin from a forgotten tribe who thinks it is his destiny to save the world. He's not doing so well at it.
When I made the character I had planned for him to be fresh from stealing the sacred warhammer of the tribe and going off to fulfil his destiny, but when I rolled the stats I got 16, 16, 13, 9, 9, 8! Not brilliant for what was supposed to be an intelligent, charismatic fighter - I'd hoped for more 12-ish's!
As a result, my Intelligence, Wisdon and Dexterity got the dumps and charisma & constitution got the 16's, and strength the 13. As a tiefling I ended up with char 18, which I wanted, but the intelligence being only 10 (after +1) meant all my nature-related stuff was average, not representative of a character who was raised in the religious service of the god of the forest!
So, I changed the story a bit, working with the DM. Now the town he left has long since been destroyed, and Sal (my characters full name is "salvation") has been wandering the wastes, taking odd jobs as hired muscle whilst still wanting to save the world but not being very proactive about it. He's also been in a prison due to crossing an industrialist who bribed the constabulary to arrest him, but was good enough to pay for the deluxe prison where the prisoners are petrified for their stay so that they don't age. Sal awoke to find all the forests were gone, the world had both suffered and survived a steampunk machine uprising and that society had already started to rebuild, and so his knowledge of the subject has slipped from practice to myth - explaining his lowered intelligence. The world is so unfamiliar to him that he doesn't really understand it, hence low wisdom. and low dex is because he is still suffering the after-effects of petrification.
Now, thanks to low rolls, my characters story is significantly cooler and more in-depth, and fits well with his statistics. I desperately wanted to reroll them, but I did think - why bother rolling at all if you're not going to roll with it! I have 3 good stats and 3 bad ones - I can work with that! that's why there's a party of people - let others do the sneaking and the thinking, I'll do the talking and the hitting!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
A good rule of thumb for stats is that if you do not have at least two 15 or higher stats, you should be allowed a mulligan. The reason being, you should be able to feel heroic playing your character, unless you specifically want to play an unoptomized character.
I allow players to reroll, and sometimes they don’t want to even when the stats are low. The point is everyone should have fun.
Key words: boring stats
My standard for stats that need re-roll is “other”: if it is a set of boring stats. A typical example: all 6 rolls are between 10 and 12. If they have one or two high rolls (15+) and one or two low rolls (7-), that’s ideal, because their character will have something they are good at and something they are bad at. Both contribute to having fun.
Oh here we go again... "Rolling for d6 is perfectly acceptable for creating chars, unless of course the player will not accept the vagaries of randomization, at which point we throw out the rules..."
Player wants to roll 4d6. Then they live with the results. Or, maybe, just use the Point Buy system laid out explicitly in the PHB.
I solve this problem by not allowing people to roll for stats at all.
Yup. It establishes a baseline that every single player starts with. There is zero chance for some char to have an innate set of abilities that the other chars do not, and that makes it easier for a DM to run a game. Now, can better players design better characters? Yes. But there no one with a one, two, or three ASI headstart on everyone else.
You know, it's funny... I use a stat array for my game with my players.
I'm slowly exploring solo D&D, and for that? I rolled 4D6 and dropped the lowest. I did agree with myself, since solo can be brutal, that if I came out worse than the standard array, I would let myself use the standard array. I ended up with 16-16-13-12-11-10, which is marginally better than the standard array, so I kept it.
Ordinarily I would not let a player roll first and then choose the array if not liking the roll, but I figure for soloing, there is nobody to care, and you have to make some concessions even when playing solo-built modules (the writers even tell you to make some that I probably won't -- I am only 1 session into it).
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
It's ultimately up to how your group wishes to do it. My group has a specific way we roll and we keep out stats regardless. We have also allowed players to choose the Standard array instead of rolling if they didn't feel like rolling (You pick one or the other, you don't get to roll and then pick the standard array). It works well for my group but it won't work for everyone.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Yes, that is what I would say if someone wanted to roll....
I only "cheated" (or theoretically would have allowed it with borked rolls) with my solo game, because it is one character playing solo against whatever comes his way. But even if I were soloing with 3 or 4 characters, I'd have to decide to roll and then keep what I get... or take the array... first. No swapping over if you don't like the rolls.
I do the same thing with hit points. When they level, they can take the average as standard, OR roll. But if they roll a 3 on 1d10 and don't like it, too bad -- they keep it. They can choose either method but they can't roll "to see if they beat the average" and then otherwise keep the average. That is too gamey. (Though I do allow rerolls of 1s because 1s suck on rolling hit points).
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
No rerolling. I assuming the group agreed to roll stats. Then this result. When you go random, you have to accept the bad with the good. I do suggest the standard array or 27 point buy.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
i personally have my players use 1 of two methods
1.roll and if they have no numbers 16+ raise their lowest to a 16
2.you get 71 stat points you can divide among stats however you choose, every number must be between 6 and 18
edit: used wrong version of two(im dumb)
NNCHRIS: SOUL THIEF, MASTER OF THE ARCANE, AND KING OF NEW YORKNN
Gdl Creator of Ilheia and her Knights of the Fallen Stars ldG
Lesser Student of Technomancy [undergrad student in computer science]
Supporter of the 2014 rules, and a MASSIVE Homebrewer. Come to me all ye who seek salvation in wording thy brews!
Open to homebrew trades at any time!! Or feel free to request HB, and Ill see if I can get it done for ya!
Characters (Outdated)
I had an old DM who’s method I adopted for HP. Player rolls in the open, DM rolls behind the screen. Player can choose to keep their roll, or go with the (unknown) DM roll.
Not related to the thread, but I am super curious: What class/ species did the player choose for a solo adventure.
In my latest campaign as a PC, the DM does this: everyone does 4d6 (drop lowest), but you can choose another player's array if you prefer it.
1. This is good for encounter balance. If someone rolls really well, then the whole party is going to be stronger.
2. What you sometimes get is one array that is good for SAD and one that is good for MAD. So not everyone chooses the "best" array because that might be different depending on what you are going for.