XGtE says,"The adamantine version of a melee weapon or of ten pieces of ammunition costs 500 gp more than the normal version, whether the weapon or ammunition is made of the metal or coated with it."
And Adamantine Armor shows up as Uncommon on the Magic Item tables (where it kinda doesn't belong).
I've read that a lot of folks simply tack 500 gp on top of the price of the base armor to determine the cost (assuming it's available to purchase at all).
I tend not to price it at all, but I don’t use or like magic stores. If a player wants it, and I agree it’s a reasonable option, I’d place it in treasure they find. To me, non standard metals are very rare, and as such, the average smith won’t have access to them, or experience enough in working them for them to show up in a shop.
Mithral armor is a metal of its own kind, so it would not work
I'm not sure I follow you there. Adamantine is also a metal. Both Adamantine and Mithral show up on the Magic Items lists as Uncommon. To clarify, I'm looking for assigning gp values to Adamantine armor, such as one might expect to pay if the armor were found available for sale.
If you use the Downtime guide, that would put the Uncommon value at merely 101-500 gp. I'm wondering if the 'best' way to price Adamantine armor is to simply tack on a minimum of 500 gp to the base.
I tend not to price it at all, but I don’t use or like magic stores. If a player wants it, and I agree it’s a reasonable option, I’d place it in treasure they find. To me, non standard metals are very rare, and as such, the average smith won’t have access to them, or experience enough in working them for them to show up in a shop.
Not what I'm trying to figure out at the moment, but certainly a valid and reasonable approach. It's typically mine as well. Mostly, at this moment, I'm just trying to close a knowledge gap. We have a clear explanation of pricing for Adamantine weapons, I'm just looking for the same for armor.
either double (100%) more or 50% more expensive, up to triple.
determine the rarity in your world of Adamantine and Mithril. which is more rare, and price accordingly for armor.
500gp more for a weapon, or 10 shots of ammo (arrow heads whatever) so a sword, axe head , mace end etc are the same. Armor requires a ton more materials and more skill in the rare metal. so you also have to consider (or wave away) finding someone who can work in that metal.
Here it says Adamantine costs twice the price of Mithril, so if you accept that definition, PHB price (+500) holds for weapon. However Adamantine armor would be double and Mithril 50% more.
so plate adamantine is 3k, mithril 2.25k but the linked price of the ore compared to iron.
EX:
In a game I'm playing a full set of Mithril plate cost 3k gp (double) to manufacture, which was high but not crazy and Mithril was on hand. It was noted what Adamantine would be 3xs cost.
Realistically, it depends on the amount of adamantine that needs to be used, and on whether it's easier to work adamantine for armor than for weapons, but D&D already grossly simplifies that (an adamantine dagger should not cost the same as an adamantine greatsword). Still, given relative weights, armor should be a lot more expensive than weapons.
I don't price either, neither of them is readily available on the open market in my world.
But to answer your question about whether the system is fair: The description of adamantine armor says that the metal is used to reinforce armor, whereas the mithral armor is not described that way. Adamantine's mechanical effect is to reduce a critical hit to a normal hit. Therefore, I submit that the adamantine is probably not used as the primary material in adamantine armor, it just supplements it in those areas where the user especially doesn't want to get stabbed. Something like a ceramic plate in the chest of a kevlar vest.
If this is the case, then I think adding 500 to the cost of the base armor sounds good. You might not use any more material for a chest plate or helmet (or codpiece) than you'd use plating a weapon.
Mithral, on the other hand...I think to get the stealth benefits, mithral armor has to be entirely made of the metal and would therefore be much more expensive even if the cost per ounce of mithral < adamantine.
Well if it helps, there is a published adventure league adventure from Baldman Games that uses Adamantine Ore as a treasure prize and lists its value thusly:
Treasure Awards Item Name GP value Adamantine chunk (if sold) 50
Chunk of Adamantine. For rescuing dwarven master-smith Boltac Thurdingard from the assassin, he gave you this chunk of raw adamantine ore. You can sell this chunk for 50 gp, or you can use the ore to craft a new weapon (it cannot be retroactively applied to an existing item). If you have multiple copies of this certificate, then you may combine them to forge a larger item. Only the items listed on this certificate may be forged using this certificate. Each item costs the listed number of chunks (each copy of this certificate represents one chunk and all certificates used must be voided at the same time; note the transaction on your logsheet).
An adamantine weapon has the same game statistics as a normal (non-magical) weapon of its type, but its attacks can bypass the damage resistance of certain types of creatures.
So...with that in mind, you can see the value that was set in an official Adventure League game.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Adamantine weapons and armour should never be something that can be "priced out".
Consider a real life example. The Russians in the 1970's designed and built the Alfa class sub. It had a Titanium hull. That is a incredible metal. But it was found that welding it was as difficult as the metal was strong. The Alfa class was a terrifyingly effective submarine in its limited role (super-fast, deep-diving), but was never duplicated, primarily because of the cost of the hull. (and the liquid lead-bismuth reactors were a brute).
Finding Mithral or Adamantine should be rarer than the rarest gems. And finding smiths that actually have the experience and expertise to work with those metals should be even harder. A suit of Plate Adamantine would be something a king would have, as a valuable as the Crown Jewels. Ignore the pricing in the source books.
What adamantine does mechanically isn’t worth the price you are ascribing it. It is just a fancier metal that can negate criticals as an armor and effect some monsters that would otherwise be resistant to the damage of a weapon, and rust monsters can’t eat it. Any of those effects are not worthy of “crown jewel” money. They are just specialty items at best.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Another way to look at it, from a world-building point of view, might be that the industrial applications of a super-hard non-corrosive metal are such that only someone as wealthy as a king would spend money so frivolously as to make a suit of armor out of it. I mean, something that scores a critical hit every single time against objects? That's not armor, that's a siege weapon. Or an industrial drill. It's what you make the city gates out of.
In this context, the only adamantine suit of armor you'd come across (as opposed to just up-armoring ordinary armor for extra protection) would be made as a deliberate, extravagant display of wealth. Like that diamond bra Victoria's Secret made for TV.
Another factor might be supply. In 1e, it was an alloy, but in 5e it comes from meteorites. According to Wikipedia (and it chills me to start a sentence that way), there are about 500 tons of meteorite iron that have been found on Earth, in total. If we say that adamantine is equally rare, we either accept a world where adamantine is super-expensive relative to its usefulness, or we grab a spelljammer and go planetoid-hunting (Look at that! I just babbled myself into a new campaign idea!).
In a small town or village, the odds of a smith knowing how to work with Adamantium is going to be very low. In a large city, sure, you bet... it costs 500 gp plus the cost of the normal armor... if you have the adamantium. Several quests are easily had there... so, sometimes there have been carts of adamantium and other goods headed into town attacked by mosnters and helped out the last member of the teamsters who offered a choice of rewards. Or a trip to a dwarven settlement that actually had an excellent smith and raw ore. Or a meteor shower where it was discovered that the one nearby held a moderate amount of the material.
In a small town or village, the odds of a smith knowing how to work with Adamantium is going to be very low. In a large city, sure, you bet... it costs 500 gp plus the cost of the normal armor... if you have the adamantium. Several quests are easily had there... so, sometimes there have been carts of adamantium and other goods headed into town attacked by mosnters and helped out the last member of the teamsters who offered a choice of rewards. Or a trip to a dwarven settlement that actually had an excellent smith and raw ore. Or a meteor shower where it was discovered that the one nearby held a moderate amount of the material.
Precisely. This is not something you pick up in the market in a busy town. I would suggest the expertise of the smith might be more than 500 GP, more like 5000 GP, but that is based on the economics of the campaign. Imagine the smelting equipment alone that must be needed to deal with this exotic metal. How much metal can be extracted from a ton of ore, if the ore can be found at all. Entire mini-campaigns can be centred around the finding, mining, smelting, transporting, and crafting of the metal.
Adamantine is 100 gp per pound. Embric and Avi sell 10 lb bars for 1,000 gp in Troll Skull Alley (WDDH).
Mithral is 50 gp per pound. This is noted in level 6 of DMM. Level 2 also notes that 10 lbs of raw mithral ore is 25 gp (although I suppose this can vary wildly depending on the richness of the ore).
Of course that's in a big city where you can find pretty much anything.
But yes, I just add the modifier even though it doesn't make the most sense if you compare different item sizes.
Okay, well let’s plug in some numbers! If you take a 50 lb. suit of proper, knightly, plate armor, that means 5000 gp in raw materials, plus the premium charged by the artisan who can work in this metal, you could easily be looking at king’s-ransom money. If one subscribes to my “up-armoring” theory, where you plate a thin layer of the stuff over, say, the helmet, gorget, and cuirass, a knockaround guy who wasn’t too worried about looks, could probably get it done for 500 gp over the PHB price. I still think mithral armor would have to be made entirely from mithral, so one’s Stealth Armor would run about 2500 in materials, but labor would probably be cheaper since more people know how to work it.
I still think mithral armor would have to be made entirely from mithral, so one’s Stealth Armor would run about 2500 in materials, but labor would probably be cheaper since more people know how to work it.
as with most everything in D&D...things totally break down when you actually start doing math. for mithral, just do the stated rarity prices. for adamantine, just do the stated modifier.
Looking a price of 50 gp / lb makes it as valuable as gold. Depends on your campaign, but in my low magic world Mithral and Adamantine armour and weapons may be the best you can get - I make them special items - things of legend for heroes. Price is what you want.
Look at Invulnerability spell - a small piece of Adamantine worth 500 gp - I would use 500 gp / lb. (same as platinum)
I make them NON MAGICAL items, just rare materials and skilled, trained armourer required.
Mithral Armour - I make half weight, (as I use Encumbrance rules) - no disadvantage to stealth
Mithral Swords (weapons) - half weight, Heavy weapons become normal, normal becomes Light
Adamantine Armour - as standard - no critical hits against you !! Fantastic
Adamantine Blades - critical hits against objects - I home brew them to roll damage with advantage - or at least let them roll again if they want.
I would say, given the weights of (seemingly) metallic armor tend to be at least 2x that of (seemingly) metallic weapons, I would go with 2x the cost increase for armor.
So, adamantine weapons would be 500 gp more expensive, adamantine armor would be 1000 gp more expensive.
As for mithral + adamantine, I would allow the combination, given that adamantine is used to reinforce armor, and could simply be used to coat weapons.
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XGtE says,"The adamantine version of a melee weapon or of ten pieces of ammunition costs 500 gp more than the normal version, whether the weapon or ammunition is made of the metal or coated with it."
And Adamantine Armor shows up as Uncommon on the Magic Item tables (where it kinda doesn't belong).
I've read that a lot of folks simply tack 500 gp on top of the price of the base armor to determine the cost (assuming it's available to purchase at all).
Do you/would you use that as a fair system?
Would that apply equally well to mithral armor?
Mithral armor is a metal of its own kind, so it would not work
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I tend not to price it at all, but I don’t use or like magic stores. If a player wants it, and I agree it’s a reasonable option, I’d place it in treasure they find. To me, non standard metals are very rare, and as such, the average smith won’t have access to them, or experience enough in working them for them to show up in a shop.
I'm not sure I follow you there. Adamantine is also a metal. Both Adamantine and Mithral show up on the Magic Items lists as Uncommon.
To clarify, I'm looking for assigning gp values to Adamantine armor, such as one might expect to pay if the armor were found available for sale.
If you use the Downtime guide, that would put the Uncommon value at merely 101-500 gp. I'm wondering if the 'best' way to price Adamantine armor is to simply tack on a minimum of 500 gp to the base.
Not what I'm trying to figure out at the moment, but certainly a valid and reasonable approach. It's typically mine as well.
Mostly, at this moment, I'm just trying to close a knowledge gap. We have a clear explanation of pricing for Adamantine weapons, I'm just looking for the same for armor.
either double (100%) more or 50% more expensive, up to triple.
determine the rarity in your world of Adamantine and Mithril. which is more rare, and price accordingly for armor.
500gp more for a weapon, or 10 shots of ammo (arrow heads whatever) so a sword, axe head , mace end etc are the same. Armor requires a ton more materials and more skill in the rare metal. so you also have to consider (or wave away) finding someone who can work in that metal.
Also check other or older resources: https://olddungeonmaster.com/2016/12/02/dd-5e-metals/
Here it says Adamantine costs twice the price of Mithril, so if you accept that definition, PHB price (+500) holds for weapon. However Adamantine armor would be double and Mithril 50% more.
so plate adamantine is 3k, mithril 2.25k but the linked price of the ore compared to iron.
EX:
In a game I'm playing a full set of Mithril plate cost 3k gp (double) to manufacture, which was high but not crazy and Mithril was on hand. It was noted what Adamantine would be 3xs cost.
Realistically, it depends on the amount of adamantine that needs to be used, and on whether it's easier to work adamantine for armor than for weapons, but D&D already grossly simplifies that (an adamantine dagger should not cost the same as an adamantine greatsword). Still, given relative weights, armor should be a lot more expensive than weapons.
I don't price either, neither of them is readily available on the open market in my world.
But to answer your question about whether the system is fair: The description of adamantine armor says that the metal is used to reinforce armor, whereas the mithral armor is not described that way. Adamantine's mechanical effect is to reduce a critical hit to a normal hit. Therefore, I submit that the adamantine is probably not used as the primary material in adamantine armor, it just supplements it in those areas where the user especially doesn't want to get stabbed. Something like a ceramic plate in the chest of a kevlar vest.
If this is the case, then I think adding 500 to the cost of the base armor sounds good. You might not use any more material for a chest plate or helmet (or codpiece) than you'd use plating a weapon.
Mithral, on the other hand...I think to get the stealth benefits, mithral armor has to be entirely made of the metal and would therefore be much more expensive even if the cost per ounce of mithral < adamantine.
Well if it helps, there is a published adventure league adventure from Baldman Games that uses Adamantine Ore as a treasure prize and lists its value thusly:
So...with that in mind, you can see the value that was set in an official Adventure League game.
Adamantine weapons and armour should never be something that can be "priced out".
Consider a real life example. The Russians in the 1970's designed and built the Alfa class sub. It had a Titanium hull. That is a incredible metal. But it was found that welding it was as difficult as the metal was strong. The Alfa class was a terrifyingly effective submarine in its limited role (super-fast, deep-diving), but was never duplicated, primarily because of the cost of the hull. (and the liquid lead-bismuth reactors were a brute).
Finding Mithral or Adamantine should be rarer than the rarest gems. And finding smiths that actually have the experience and expertise to work with those metals should be even harder. A suit of Plate Adamantine would be something a king would have, as a valuable as the Crown Jewels. Ignore the pricing in the source books.
What adamantine does mechanically isn’t worth the price you are ascribing it. It is just a fancier metal that can negate criticals as an armor and effect some monsters that would otherwise be resistant to the damage of a weapon, and rust monsters can’t eat it. Any of those effects are not worthy of “crown jewel” money. They are just specialty items at best.
Another way to look at it, from a world-building point of view, might be that the industrial applications of a super-hard non-corrosive metal are such that only someone as wealthy as a king would spend money so frivolously as to make a suit of armor out of it. I mean, something that scores a critical hit every single time against objects? That's not armor, that's a siege weapon. Or an industrial drill. It's what you make the city gates out of.
In this context, the only adamantine suit of armor you'd come across (as opposed to just up-armoring ordinary armor for extra protection) would be made as a deliberate, extravagant display of wealth. Like that diamond bra Victoria's Secret made for TV.
Another factor might be supply. In 1e, it was an alloy, but in 5e it comes from meteorites. According to Wikipedia (and it chills me to start a sentence that way), there are about 500 tons of meteorite iron that have been found on Earth, in total. If we say that adamantine is equally rare, we either accept a world where adamantine is super-expensive relative to its usefulness, or we grab a spelljammer and go planetoid-hunting (Look at that! I just babbled myself into a new campaign idea!).
In a small town or village, the odds of a smith knowing how to work with Adamantium is going to be very low. In a large city, sure, you bet... it costs 500 gp plus the cost of the normal armor... if you have the adamantium. Several quests are easily had there... so, sometimes there have been carts of adamantium and other goods headed into town attacked by mosnters and helped out the last member of the teamsters who offered a choice of rewards. Or a trip to a dwarven settlement that actually had an excellent smith and raw ore. Or a meteor shower where it was discovered that the one nearby held a moderate amount of the material.
Precisely. This is not something you pick up in the market in a busy town. I would suggest the expertise of the smith might be more than 500 GP, more like 5000 GP, but that is based on the economics of the campaign. Imagine the smelting equipment alone that must be needed to deal with this exotic metal. How much metal can be extracted from a ton of ore, if the ore can be found at all. Entire mini-campaigns can be centred around the finding, mining, smelting, transporting, and crafting of the metal.
Both have official 5e prices.
Adamantine is 100 gp per pound. Embric and Avi sell 10 lb bars for 1,000 gp in Troll Skull Alley (WDDH).
Mithral is 50 gp per pound. This is noted in level 6 of DMM. Level 2 also notes that 10 lbs of raw mithral ore is 25 gp (although I suppose this can vary wildly depending on the richness of the ore).
Of course that's in a big city where you can find pretty much anything.
But yes, I just add the modifier even though it doesn't make the most sense if you compare different item sizes.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
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Okay, well let’s plug in some numbers! If you take a 50 lb. suit of proper, knightly, plate armor, that means 5000 gp in raw materials, plus the premium charged by the artisan who can work in this metal, you could easily be looking at king’s-ransom money. If one subscribes to my “up-armoring” theory, where you plate a thin layer of the stuff over, say, the helmet, gorget, and cuirass, a knockaround guy who wasn’t too worried about looks, could probably get it done for 500 gp over the PHB price. I still think mithral armor would have to be made entirely from mithral, so one’s Stealth Armor would run about 2500 in materials, but labor would probably be cheaper since more people know how to work it.
as with most everything in D&D...things totally break down when you actually start doing math. for mithral, just do the stated rarity prices. for adamantine, just do the stated modifier.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Looking a price of 50 gp / lb makes it as valuable as gold. Depends on your campaign, but in my low magic world Mithral and Adamantine armour and weapons may be the best you can get - I make them special items - things of legend for heroes. Price is what you want.
Look at Invulnerability spell - a small piece of Adamantine worth 500 gp - I would use 500 gp / lb. (same as platinum)
I make them NON MAGICAL items, just rare materials and skilled, trained armourer required.
Mithral Armour - I make half weight, (as I use Encumbrance rules) - no disadvantage to stealth
Mithral Swords (weapons) - half weight, Heavy weapons become normal, normal becomes Light
Adamantine Armour - as standard - no critical hits against you !! Fantastic
Adamantine Blades - critical hits against objects - I home brew them to roll damage with advantage - or at least let them roll again if they want.
Adamantine is not rare than the rarest gem, every single dark elf warrior runs around with adamantine weapons
I would say, given the weights of (seemingly) metallic armor tend to be at least 2x that of (seemingly) metallic weapons, I would go with 2x the cost increase for armor.
So, adamantine weapons would be 500 gp more expensive, adamantine armor would be 1000 gp more expensive.
As for mithral + adamantine, I would allow the combination, given that adamantine is used to reinforce armor, and could simply be used to coat weapons.