This Kind of feature, IMO, have PROs/CONs. As Roleplay: The PRO of giving people freedom to choose what they want to play and the CON of reducing classes race uniqueness. As Mechanic: The PRO of reducing the power gap between a "good" race for q specific class and a "bad" race for that same class CON generalize what is good and bad for almost every class.
Personally I am not a fan of this kind of change, although I am not really impartial since I have experienced some frustration on games I use to play because, little by little, this kind of changes got to a point that all feels just the same.
The weight of the Pros/Cons will be different from table to table, but I would like to see how other people see this possibilities. So thanks for answering the Pool and even more for writing your opinion.
PS: I searched for any similar topic/pool since Tasha is already "old news" but I didn't found one.
This Kind of feature, IMO, have PROs/CONs. As Roleplay: The PRO of giving people freedom to choose what they want to play and the CON of reducing classes uniqueness. As Mechanic: The PRO of reducing the power gap between a "good" race for q specific class and a "bad" race for that same class CON generalize what is good and bad for almost every class.
Personally I am not a fan of this kind of change, although I am not really impartial since I have experienced some frustration on games I use to play because, little by little, this kind of changes got to a point that all feels just the same.
The weight of the Pros/Cons will be different from table to table, but I would like to see how other people see this possibilities. So thanks for answering the Pool and even more for writing your opinion.
PS: I searched for any similar topic/pool since Tasha is already "old news" but I didn't found one.
I disagree with the listed "Con" in bold (although I assume you mean race uniqueness as opposed to "class uniqueness"). While removing the racial ASIs does make the various races more similar, there are still a ton of unique features that set them apart, so that an elf and a dwarf feel distinct from one another. To list a few examples:
Elves: Fey Ancestry, Darkvision, Trance, Keen Senses + all of the special subrace features for the large number of elven subraces
Dwarves: Darkvision, Dwarven Resilience, Stonecunning + subrace features
Tiefling: Darkvision, Hellish Resistance, Infernal Legacy + several different variant versions of features which replace those listed here
Between all four of these races/lineages, they could have the exact same +2/+1 and the only racial trait that they would share would be Darkvision. Everything else they get grants them some sort of unique ability that you would not get by playing a different race. These racial features are what I think make a race/lineage truly unique, not the assignment of +2/+1. The only player race that seems to get the short end of the stick in the case of a floating ASI would be the Human, since they do not have a bunch of racial features.
Edit: Forgot to add that for the established races, things like being Small or Medium or having swimming/climbing/flying speeds are also BIG differences that overshadow where you put a +2/+1, imo. Small creatures cannot use Heavy weapons (thus making the gnome barbarian less effective than the half-orc barbarian, even if they both have a 20 Strength). Being able to fly on command whenever you like? That makes you pretty unique compared to all your ground-bound companions
The pro side is that allows a lot of ways to make any given character unique. Every play a massively multiplayer online role-playing game? People are desperate for some way for their character to be even close to unique, or in any way different than the 400 different ways to spell Drizzt. You have a difficult time getting the name you want to use.
D&D isn't one of those kinds of games, you can pick whatever name you like, your actions (not in the mechanical sense) can be nearly anything, and with all the customization you can get within the rules, each character can be awesome at something.
"Bad" if for the players to decide, and if they want to take something that is less than optimal... how many complains have you seen about "power gamers", "munchkins", "murder-hoboes", and such have you seen?
So far, even without any customization at all, I've never had the least bit of trouble telling in our 4th level game, my Variant Human Battle Master Fighter from the Gnome Wizard, the two foot tall Halfling Arcane Trickster Rogue, the Genasi Druid, or the Half-Elf Hunter Ranger in the party with me, nor in the other game I play in, where we are all 2nd level, and I'm a Half-Elf Warlock of the Fiend, being able to tell the difference between the White Dragonborn Paladin, the Faerie Cleric, the Halfling Rogue, the 6'7" Dwarf Barbarian, and the Changling Bard in the party with me. (same player for the two characters whose hight I have mentioned.)
I honestly don't see what the cons are supposed to be. Racial traits and ASI's are relevant when you have a small number of species options to choose from, but with the large number available, there is pretty much always a race that fits your stat preference if that's what you want.
As with all elements of D&D, play it if you want it, don't play it if you don't like it. Personally I like anything that gives my players more choice and more customisation in their loadout.
These things are basically forgotten 5 seconds after character creation happens. They make players happier and have no impact on anyone else.
This Kind of feature, IMO, have PROs/CONs. As Roleplay: The PRO of giving people freedom to choose what they want to play and the CON of reducing classes uniqueness. As Mechanic: The PRO of reducing the power gap between a "good" race for q specific class and a "bad" race for that same class CON generalize what is good and bad for almost every class.
Personally I am not a fan of this kind of change, although I am not really impartial since I have experienced some frustration on games I use to play because, little by little, this kind of changes got to a point that all feels just the same.
The weight of the Pros/Cons will be different from table to table, but I would like to see how other people see this possibilities. So thanks for answering the Pool and even more for writing your opinion.
PS: I searched for any similar topic/pool since Tasha is already "old news" but I didn't found one.
I disagree with the listed "Con" in bold (although I assume you mean race uniqueness as opposed to "class uniqueness"). While removing the racial ASIs does make the various races more similar, there are still a ton of unique features that set them apart, so that an elf and a dwarf feel distinct from one another. To list a few examples:
Elves: Fey Ancestry, Darkvision, Trance, Keen Senses + all of the special subrace features for the large number of elven subraces
Dwarves: Darkvision, Dwarven Resilience, Stonecunning + subrace features
Tiefling: Darkvision, Hellish Resistance, Infernal Legacy + several different variant versions of features which replace those listed here
Between all four of these races/lineages, they could have the exact same +2/+1 and the only racial trait that they would share would be Darkvision. Everything else they get grants them some sort of unique ability that you would not get by playing a different race. These racial features are what I think make a race/lineage truly unique, not the assignment of +2/+1. The only player race that seems to get the short end of the stick in the case of a floating ASI would be the Human, since they do not have a bunch of racial features.
Edit: Forgot to add that for the established races, things like being Small or Medium or having swimming/climbing/flying speeds are also BIG differences that overshadow where you put a +2/+1, imo. Small creatures cannot use Heavy weapons (thus making the gnome barbarian less effective than the half-orc barbarian, even if they both have a 20 Strength). Being able to fly on command whenever you like? That makes you pretty unique compared to all your ground-bound companions
You said you disagree but you sentence said otherwise, I mean, I haven't said it removes the uniqueness. I said it reduced which was corroborate by what you said "...does make the various races more similar...".
I think everything comes down to the fact that you don't put lot of weight on the ASIs on regard of race identity. I can respect that, but It's kind of hard for me to see it that way.
I honestly don't see what the cons are supposed to be. Racial traits and ASI's are relevant when you have a small number of species options to choose from, but with the large number available, there is pretty much always a race that fits your stat preference if that's what you want.
As with all elements of D&D, play it if you want it, don't play it if you don't like it. Personally I like anything that gives my players more choice and more customisation in their loadout.
These things are basically forgotten 5 seconds after character creation happens. They make players happier and have no impact on anyone else.
Basically the same point of view of Kaboom, maybe you guys are right.
As far as my experience go, MinMax are not that comum on tables although people generally like to have a character "well made" with some synergy, not necessarily perfect but mechanically good. Currently this make that each class, have 3 to 5 more comum races. In THEORY the customize your origin could rise this number reducing the power GAP between races, but I fear that some races like Half-Elf rise way above others and start attracting every class. My fear rise even further when thinking about Custom Lineage.
@Geann, I understand that the number or permutation will strongly increase giving player the possibility to make something unic, but again this is just on theory. In practice I can see it working the other way around, like on a MMO as you mentioned, that you have a big skill tree but one is so better that you'll be driven to it. (Again, maybe I am just wrong and the mechanic power are not different enough to ""force"" people to play an specific class, unless the guy is MinMaxing of course).
Btw: Have you guys been using this rules since Tasha? Haven't you felt that some races are been using to often where others are just not use at all?
Allowing Custom Lineage puts the final nail in the human coffin - if TCL is allowed to exist, anyone playing an actual human has made their character mechanically worse for literally no benefit, since TCL can still play as human in every way that matters. If you're going to allow Custom Lineage, I recommend banning humans and variant humans, and telling your players to use TCL to build characters who are supposed to be human. For now, I personally ban it as overpowered.
Customize your Origin:
I'm still thinking through the consequences of this, because the rules simultaneously go too far and not far enough - for example, modifying a race to no longer have a Charisma bonus but still cast racial spells using their Charisma modifier is deeply weird. Either locking them into Charisma or unlocking their spellcasting ability modifier would make more sense - the Tasha's compromise is very strange. CyO also buffs races with more proficiencies more than it does races with fewer proficiencies, but I'm not sure if I like that or if I dislike that. For now, I'm allowing it.
Allowing Custom Lineage puts the final nail in the human coffin - if TCL is allowed to exist, anyone playing an actual human has made their character mechanically worse for literally no benefit, since TCL can still play as human in every way that matters. If you're going to allow Custom Lineage, I recommend banning humans and variant humans, and telling your players to use TCL to build characters who are supposed to be human. For now, I personally ban it as overpowered.
Customize your Origin:
I'm still thinking through the consequences of this, because the rules simultaneously go too far and not far enough - for example, modifying a race to no longer have a Charisma bonus but still cast racial spells using their Charisma modifier is deeply weird. Either locking them into Charisma or unlocking their spellcasting ability modifier would make more sense - the Tasha's compromise is very strange. CyO also buffs races with more proficiencies more than it does races with fewer proficiencies, but I'm not sure if I like that or if I dislike that. For now, I'm allowing it.
Custom Lineages and Origins are great, there are a ton of racial variants that the rules do not account for in my world, for one every race has the ability to be a half, so half tiefling half gnome, half elf half dwarf, half half orc half half elf, half tabaxi half dragonborn, and then there are the races that players create, making up ideas that are really cool.
These didn't exist as viable options pre tashas, and while tasha's Cauldron does not go far enough to my mind it does give some extra flexibility, in my idea world true custom lineages would give you a full tree of options, from inherent spells, to proficiencies and languages, to listing every potential racial trait allowing a balanced choice (take fire breathing or take feline agility dont take both)
My games and my players are never creating to Min Max, they are creating to tell a story. I can see how and why some tables might see these rules as overpowered but the fact they are optional rules means that we already have control as a DM to sit down with a player, talk through the character concept and then work with them to create the new lineage tweaking it and amending it to ensure it is balanced. This is no different to what we should be doing as DM's anyway, working with our players to tell the best story not simply enabling them to make an overpowered character (unless thats the collective story your table enjoys in which case have fun and enjoy).
As for forcing a race to play specific classes, that has always been something I have disliked, so even pre tasha I allowed players to swap racial stats and proficiencies around. Why does it make sense that the Dwarf Ranger isn't that class because they showed an undeniable aptitude to be good at things requiring dex, or that elf barbarian isn't just naturally stronger but a little less smart then other elves? So I have always allowed my players to do what is right for the backstory and tale they are trying to tell. As for the case about chrisma based spells but not having a charisma bonus, I see these as inherent traits, not learnt abilities, and it is perfectly acceptable that a Tiefling might just be bad at casting them. Maybe the magic isn't as strong, maybe it is the runt of the family, but for whatever reason this tiefling is more intelligent then it's peers, but was never good at casting hellish rebuke.
Allowing Custom Lineage puts the final nail in the human coffin - if TCL is allowed to exist, anyone playing an actual human has made their character mechanically worse for literally no benefit, since TCL can still play as human in every way that matters. If you're going to allow Custom Lineage, I recommend banning humans and variant humans, and telling your players to use TCL to build characters who are supposed to be human. For now, I personally ban it as overpowered.
Customize your Origin:
I'm still thinking through the consequences of this, because the rules simultaneously go too far and not far enough - for example, modifying a race to no longer have a Charisma bonus but still cast racial spells using their Charisma modifier is deeply weird. Either locking them into Charisma or unlocking their spellcasting ability modifier would make more sense - the Tasha's compromise is very strange. CyO also buffs races with more proficiencies more than it does races with fewer proficiencies, but I'm not sure if I like that or if I dislike that. For now, I'm allowing it.
If you are using Custom Lineages, then just allow all players use Custom Lineage if they want to - this absolutely applies to Humans as well as any other race. The only difference between Custom Lineage and Human Variant is that you can choose Darkvision over a Proficiency (which seems daft, and I'd discourage), and you increase one ability score by 2 instead of 2 scores by 1. I really don't think that this is game breaking.
Allowing Custom Lineage puts the final nail in the human coffin - if TCL is allowed to exist, anyone playing an actual human has made their character mechanically worse for literally no benefit, since TCL can still play as human in every way that matters. If you're going to allow Custom Lineage, I recommend banning humans and variant humans, and telling your players to use TCL to build characters who are supposed to be human. For now, I personally ban it as overpowered.
Customize your Origin:
I'm still thinking through the consequences of this, because the rules simultaneously go too far and not far enough - for example, modifying a race to no longer have a Charisma bonus but still cast racial spells using their Charisma modifier is deeply weird. Either locking them into Charisma or unlocking their spellcasting ability modifier would make more sense - the Tasha's compromise is very strange. CyO also buffs races with more proficiencies more than it does races with fewer proficiencies, but I'm not sure if I like that or if I dislike that. For now, I'm allowing it.
If you are using Custom Lineages, then just allow all players use Custom Lineage if they want to - this absolutely applies to Humans as well as any other race. The only difference between Custom Lineage and Human Variant is that you can choose Darkvision over a Proficiency (which seems daft, and I'd discourage), and you increase one ability score by 2 instead of 2 scores by 1. I really don't think that this is game breaking.
The one thing that has been confirmed is if you are making a custom lineage you are not a known race in DnD, so if someone is making a custom human I want to know what is different to a normal human, why is this race distinct? Likewise any other race that a custom Lineage is used for.
Allowing Custom Lineage puts the final nail in the human coffin - if TCL is allowed to exist, anyone playing an actual human has made their character mechanically worse for literally no benefit, since TCL can still play as human in every way that matters. If you're going to allow Custom Lineage, I recommend banning humans and variant humans, and telling your players to use TCL to build characters who are supposed to be human. For now, I personally ban it as overpowered.
Customize your Origin:
I'm still thinking through the consequences of this, because the rules simultaneously go too far and not far enough - for example, modifying a race to no longer have a Charisma bonus but still cast racial spells using their Charisma modifier is deeply weird. Either locking them into Charisma or unlocking their spellcasting ability modifier would make more sense - the Tasha's compromise is very strange. CyO also buffs races with more proficiencies more than it does races with fewer proficiencies, but I'm not sure if I like that or if I dislike that. For now, I'm allowing it.
If you are using Custom Lineages, then just allow all players use Custom Lineage if they want to - this absolutely applies to Humans as well as any other race. The only difference between Custom Lineage and Human Variant is that you can choose Darkvision over a Proficiency (which seems daft, and I'd discourage), and you increase one ability score by 2 instead of 2 scores by 1. I really don't think that this is game breaking.
The one thing that has been confirmed is if you are making a custom lineage you are not a known race in DnD, so if someone is making a custom human I want to know what is different to a normal human, why is this race distinct? Likewise any other race that a custom Lineage is used for.
Tasha's Cauldron of Everything just says:
Instead of choosing one of the game’s races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character’s lineage, giving you full control over how your character’s origin shaped them
I don't see anything saying that you can't simply be from any race you choose but with a custom lineage, and I can't see why a DM would insist that you design a new race. The DM ultimately determines what races even exist in the world, so this is purely down to the DM's preference. If the DM says there are no elves, there are no elves. This is why they are 'custom lineages' not 'custom races.'
Variant Humans can put two ability scores as +1 and take a feat, Custom Lineage can put one ability score +2 and take a feat. It would be a strange DM call to insist that this required them to design a new lineage of humans.
Allowing Custom Lineage puts the final nail in the human coffin - if TCL is allowed to exist, anyone playing an actual human has made their character mechanically worse for literally no benefit, since TCL can still play as human in every way that matters. If you're going to allow Custom Lineage, I recommend banning humans and variant humans, and telling your players to use TCL to build characters who are supposed to be human. For now, I personally ban it as overpowered.
Customize your Origin:
I'm still thinking through the consequences of this, because the rules simultaneously go too far and not far enough - for example, modifying a race to no longer have a Charisma bonus but still cast racial spells using their Charisma modifier is deeply weird. Either locking them into Charisma or unlocking their spellcasting ability modifier would make more sense - the Tasha's compromise is very strange. CyO also buffs races with more proficiencies more than it does races with fewer proficiencies, but I'm not sure if I like that or if I dislike that. For now, I'm allowing it.
If you are using Custom Lineages, then just allow all players use Custom Lineage if they want to - this absolutely applies to Humans as well as any other race. The only difference between Custom Lineage and Human Variant is that you can choose Darkvision over a Proficiency (which seems daft, and I'd discourage), and you increase one ability score by 2 instead of 2 scores by 1. I really don't think that this is game breaking.
The one thing that has been confirmed is if you are making a custom lineage you are not a known race in DnD, so if someone is making a custom human I want to know what is different to a normal human, why is this race distinct? Likewise any other race that a custom Lineage is used for.
Tasha's Cauldron of Everything just says:
Instead of choosing one of the game’s races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character’s lineage, giving you full control over how your character’s origin shaped them
I don't see anything saying that you can't simply be from any race you choose but with a custom lineage, and I can't see why a DM would insist that you design a new race. The DM ultimately determines what races even exist in the world, so this is purely down to the DM's preference. If the DM says there are no elves, there are no elves. This is why they are 'custom lineages' not 'custom races.'
Variant Humans can put two ability scores as +1 and take a feat, Custom Lineage can put one ability score +2 and take a feat. It would be a strange DM call to insist that this required them to design a new lineage of humans.
Notice he specifically states that if you take a lineage you are making a race that isnt mechanically linked to anything in the game, as a DM I take that as a new human variant and would want to know what about them makes them a different lineage.
I ask that my players choose a race and that's the race they pick. Custom everything means you create a character with the stuff you want, then, at the end of building what you want, skin it. Skin it as Drow, Orc, Halfling, whatever but you're just skinning some choices you've made, which to some, is fine. I personally prefer to work (play) within some guidelines and rules that make me choose things, with both perks and drawbacks. I guess maybe I am just old and don't see the need or feel the desire to have everything fall exactly the way I want it to.
I ask that my players choose a race and that's the race they pick. Custom everything means you create a character with the stuff you want, then, at the end of building what you want, skin it. Skin it as Drow, Orc, Halfling, whatever but you're just skinning some choices you've made, which to some, is fine. I personally prefer to work (play) within some guidelines and rules that make me choose things, with both perks and drawbacks. I guess maybe I am just old and don't see the need or feel the desire to have everything fall exactly the way I want it to.
Edit - fixed a typo
Not saying this isn’t a fair way to do it, I do understand your thinking, but what if a player had a really good backstory that explained extra int for a half orc, or a tiefling that had low charisma. The new rules in Tashas allow for some really interesting roleplay options at the table which some of my players have really embraced, for instance one who is said tiefling lowest stat rolled was a 7, he wanted a 7 in charisma. It was part of a backstory he had created for this tiefling, should I have denied him that or insisted he change race to something that doesn’t come with charisma as an auto bonus? Instead I happily told him to spend his 2 charisma points on any other stat.
This character and the background and choices made have led to some fantastic roleplay moments and some great hooks that will drip into the campaign. Something not possible if the character had not been a tiefling.
As a DM I discourage min maxing but tweaking the ASI’s does not actually min max, it allows instead for really interesting character choices that can feed into roleplay really well.
I will also add, if a player wants to min max and use the rules to make the optimum character for a specific role or class, who is that hurting, no one really. They are having fun and as long as it fits the table the dm and the players everyone else will have fun as well. If they don’t fit that table then the issue isn’t the rules, it is that the player is in the wrong DnD campaign and should find players and a dm they mesh better with
The ability to customize provides more variety, not less. We all know the stereotypes: Human Fighter, Dwarf Cleric, High Elf/Gnome Wizard, Halfling Rogue, Tiefling Warlock, Half-Elf Sorcerer/Bard, Dragonborn Paladin, Half-Orc Barbarian, Wood Elf Ranger, etc. A fairly large part of the reason for these stereotypes, in my eyes at least, is the racial ASIs. When one race has a +2 to a stat, it encourages players to pick a class that fits with that ability score. That's why High Elves and Rock Gnomes make great wizards, because of their +2 to INT. But if that stat is customizable to any Ability Score, then it allows for more creative freedom when generating a character. Kinda like how the "Axe-Idiot" and Bladesinger subclasses of Barbarian and Wizard were once restricted to Dwarf and Elf respectively, but now can be used with anyone.
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This Kind of feature, IMO, have PROs/CONs.
As Roleplay: The PRO of giving people freedom to choose what they want to play and the CON of reducing
classesrace uniqueness.As Mechanic: The PRO of reducing the power gap between a "good" race for q specific class and a "bad" race for that same class CON generalize what is good and bad for almost every class.
Personally I am not a fan of this kind of change, although I am not really impartial since I have experienced some frustration on games I use to play because, little by little, this kind of changes got to a point that all feels just the same.
The weight of the Pros/Cons will be different from table to table, but I would like to see how other people see this possibilities. So thanks for answering the Pool and even more for writing your opinion.
PS: I searched for any similar topic/pool since Tasha is already "old news" but I didn't found one.
I disagree with the listed "Con" in bold (although I assume you mean race uniqueness as opposed to "class uniqueness"). While removing the racial ASIs does make the various races more similar, there are still a ton of unique features that set them apart, so that an elf and a dwarf feel distinct from one another. To list a few examples:
Elves: Fey Ancestry, Darkvision, Trance, Keen Senses + all of the special subrace features for the large number of elven subraces
Dwarves: Darkvision, Dwarven Resilience, Stonecunning + subrace features
Tiefling: Darkvision, Hellish Resistance, Infernal Legacy + several different variant versions of features which replace those listed here
Hexblood: Darkvision, Eerie Token (Telepathic Message, Remote Viewing), Hex Magic
Between all four of these races/lineages, they could have the exact same +2/+1 and the only racial trait that they would share would be Darkvision. Everything else they get grants them some sort of unique ability that you would not get by playing a different race. These racial features are what I think make a race/lineage truly unique, not the assignment of +2/+1. The only player race that seems to get the short end of the stick in the case of a floating ASI would be the Human, since they do not have a bunch of racial features.
Edit: Forgot to add that for the established races, things like being Small or Medium or having swimming/climbing/flying speeds are also BIG differences that overshadow where you put a +2/+1, imo. Small creatures cannot use Heavy weapons (thus making the gnome barbarian less effective than the half-orc barbarian, even if they both have a 20 Strength). Being able to fly on command whenever you like? That makes you pretty unique compared to all your ground-bound companions
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The pro side is that allows a lot of ways to make any given character unique. Every play a massively multiplayer online role-playing game? People are desperate for some way for their character to be even close to unique, or in any way different than the 400 different ways to spell Drizzt. You have a difficult time getting the name you want to use.
D&D isn't one of those kinds of games, you can pick whatever name you like, your actions (not in the mechanical sense) can be nearly anything, and with all the customization you can get within the rules, each character can be awesome at something.
"Bad" if for the players to decide, and if they want to take something that is less than optimal... how many complains have you seen about "power gamers", "munchkins", "murder-hoboes", and such have you seen?
So far, even without any customization at all, I've never had the least bit of trouble telling in our 4th level game, my Variant Human Battle Master Fighter from the Gnome Wizard, the two foot tall Halfling Arcane Trickster Rogue, the Genasi Druid, or the Half-Elf Hunter Ranger in the party with me, nor in the other game I play in, where we are all 2nd level, and I'm a Half-Elf Warlock of the Fiend, being able to tell the difference between the White Dragonborn Paladin, the Faerie Cleric, the Halfling Rogue, the 6'7" Dwarf Barbarian, and the Changling Bard in the party with me. (same player for the two characters whose hight I have mentioned.)
Good luck, interesting topic, glad you asked.
<Insert clever signature here>
I honestly don't see what the cons are supposed to be. Racial traits and ASI's are relevant when you have a small number of species options to choose from, but with the large number available, there is pretty much always a race that fits your stat preference if that's what you want.
As with all elements of D&D, play it if you want it, don't play it if you don't like it. Personally I like anything that gives my players more choice and more customisation in their loadout.
These things are basically forgotten 5 seconds after character creation happens. They make players happier and have no impact on anyone else.
You said you disagree but you sentence said otherwise, I mean, I haven't said it removes the uniqueness. I said it reduced which was corroborate by what you said "...does make the various races more similar...".
I think everything comes down to the fact that you don't put lot of weight on the ASIs on regard of race identity. I can respect that, but It's kind of hard for me to see it that way.
Basically the same point of view of Kaboom, maybe you guys are right.
As far as my experience go, MinMax are not that comum on tables although people generally like to have a character "well made" with some synergy, not necessarily perfect but mechanically good.
Currently this make that each class, have 3 to 5 more comum races. In THEORY the customize your origin could rise this number reducing the power GAP between races, but I fear that some races like Half-Elf rise way above others and start attracting every class. My fear rise even further when thinking about Custom Lineage.
@Geann, I understand that the number or permutation will strongly increase giving player the possibility to make something unic, but again this is just on theory. In practice I can see it working the other way around, like on a MMO as you mentioned, that you have a big skill tree but one is so better that you'll be driven to it.
(Again, maybe I am just wrong and the mechanic power are not different enough to ""force"" people to play an specific class, unless the guy is MinMaxing of course).
Btw: Have you guys been using this rules since Tasha? Haven't you felt that some races are been using to often where others are just not use at all?
Custom Lineage:
Allowing Custom Lineage puts the final nail in the human coffin - if TCL is allowed to exist, anyone playing an actual human has made their character mechanically worse for literally no benefit, since TCL can still play as human in every way that matters. If you're going to allow Custom Lineage, I recommend banning humans and variant humans, and telling your players to use TCL to build characters who are supposed to be human. For now, I personally ban it as overpowered.
Customize your Origin:
I'm still thinking through the consequences of this, because the rules simultaneously go too far and not far enough - for example, modifying a race to no longer have a Charisma bonus but still cast racial spells using their Charisma modifier is deeply weird. Either locking them into Charisma or unlocking their spellcasting ability modifier would make more sense - the Tasha's compromise is very strange. CyO also buffs races with more proficiencies more than it does races with fewer proficiencies, but I'm not sure if I like that or if I dislike that. For now, I'm allowing it.
Custom Lineages and Origins are great, there are a ton of racial variants that the rules do not account for in my world, for one every race has the ability to be a half, so half tiefling half gnome, half elf half dwarf, half half orc half half elf, half tabaxi half dragonborn, and then there are the races that players create, making up ideas that are really cool.
These didn't exist as viable options pre tashas, and while tasha's Cauldron does not go far enough to my mind it does give some extra flexibility, in my idea world true custom lineages would give you a full tree of options, from inherent spells, to proficiencies and languages, to listing every potential racial trait allowing a balanced choice (take fire breathing or take feline agility dont take both)
My games and my players are never creating to Min Max, they are creating to tell a story. I can see how and why some tables might see these rules as overpowered but the fact they are optional rules means that we already have control as a DM to sit down with a player, talk through the character concept and then work with them to create the new lineage tweaking it and amending it to ensure it is balanced. This is no different to what we should be doing as DM's anyway, working with our players to tell the best story not simply enabling them to make an overpowered character (unless thats the collective story your table enjoys in which case have fun and enjoy).
As for forcing a race to play specific classes, that has always been something I have disliked, so even pre tasha I allowed players to swap racial stats and proficiencies around. Why does it make sense that the Dwarf Ranger isn't that class because they showed an undeniable aptitude to be good at things requiring dex, or that elf barbarian isn't just naturally stronger but a little less smart then other elves? So I have always allowed my players to do what is right for the backstory and tale they are trying to tell. As for the case about chrisma based spells but not having a charisma bonus, I see these as inherent traits, not learnt abilities, and it is perfectly acceptable that a Tiefling might just be bad at casting them. Maybe the magic isn't as strong, maybe it is the runt of the family, but for whatever reason this tiefling is more intelligent then it's peers, but was never good at casting hellish rebuke.
If you are using Custom Lineages, then just allow all players use Custom Lineage if they want to - this absolutely applies to Humans as well as any other race. The only difference between Custom Lineage and Human Variant is that you can choose Darkvision over a Proficiency (which seems daft, and I'd discourage), and you increase one ability score by 2 instead of 2 scores by 1. I really don't think that this is game breaking.
The one thing that has been confirmed is if you are making a custom lineage you are not a known race in DnD, so if someone is making a custom human I want to know what is different to a normal human, why is this race distinct? Likewise any other race that a custom Lineage is used for.
Tasha's Cauldron of Everything just says:
Instead of choosing one of the game’s races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character’s lineage, giving you full control over how your character’s origin shaped them
I don't see anything saying that you can't simply be from any race you choose but with a custom lineage, and I can't see why a DM would insist that you design a new race. The DM ultimately determines what races even exist in the world, so this is purely down to the DM's preference. If the DM says there are no elves, there are no elves. This is why they are 'custom lineages' not 'custom races.'
Variant Humans can put two ability scores as +1 and take a feat, Custom Lineage can put one ability score +2 and take a feat. It would be a strange DM call to insist that this required them to design a new lineage of humans.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/1367309850707849216?lang=en
Jeremy Crawford’s response confirming this.
Notice he specifically states that if you take a lineage you are making a race that isnt mechanically linked to anything in the game, as a DM I take that as a new human variant and would want to know what about them makes them a different lineage.
I ask that my players choose a race and that's the race they pick. Custom everything means you create a character with the stuff you want, then, at the end of building what you want, skin it. Skin it as Drow, Orc, Halfling, whatever but you're just skinning some choices you've made, which to some, is fine. I personally prefer to work (play) within some guidelines and rules that make me choose things, with both perks and drawbacks. I guess maybe I am just old and don't see the need or feel the desire to have everything fall exactly the way I want it to.
Edit - fixed a typo
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Not saying this isn’t a fair way to do it, I do understand your thinking, but what if a player had a really good backstory that explained extra int for a half orc, or a tiefling that had low charisma. The new rules in Tashas allow for some really interesting roleplay options at the table which some of my players have really embraced, for instance one who is said tiefling lowest stat rolled was a 7, he wanted a 7 in charisma. It was part of a backstory he had created for this tiefling, should I have denied him that or insisted he change race to something that doesn’t come with charisma as an auto bonus? Instead I happily told him to spend his 2 charisma points on any other stat.
This character and the background and choices made have led to some fantastic roleplay moments and some great hooks that will drip into the campaign. Something not possible if the character had not been a tiefling.
As a DM I discourage min maxing but tweaking the ASI’s does not actually min max, it allows instead for really interesting character choices that can feed into roleplay really well.
I will also add, if a player wants to min max and use the rules to make the optimum character for a specific role or class, who is that hurting, no one really. They are having fun and as long as it fits the table the dm and the players everyone else will have fun as well. If they don’t fit that table then the issue isn’t the rules, it is that the player is in the wrong DnD campaign and should find players and a dm they mesh better with
The ability to customize provides more variety, not less. We all know the stereotypes: Human Fighter, Dwarf Cleric, High Elf/Gnome Wizard, Halfling Rogue, Tiefling Warlock, Half-Elf Sorcerer/Bard, Dragonborn Paladin, Half-Orc Barbarian, Wood Elf Ranger, etc. A fairly large part of the reason for these stereotypes, in my eyes at least, is the racial ASIs. When one race has a +2 to a stat, it encourages players to pick a class that fits with that ability score. That's why High Elves and Rock Gnomes make great wizards, because of their +2 to INT. But if that stat is customizable to any Ability Score, then it allows for more creative freedom when generating a character. Kinda like how the "Axe-Idiot" and Bladesinger subclasses of Barbarian and Wizard were once restricted to Dwarf and Elf respectively, but now can be used with anyone.