They attack, kill and intimate pretty much every NPC; which is quite risky for the early level characters that they are. For example, Durnan is an NPC in my campaign, and they constantly threaten him and undermine him (checks succeeding). My question is...
So first off, intimating with the the NPC before the PC attack kill them, while still morally wrong, is a little less over the top than intimating all of them (all of them?) after the PCs attack and kill them. Sorry, had to.
So yes, like a lot of others, if the players are committing criminal mischief (not just murder, but larceny, maybe even squatting) they'll be exposed to the consequences of their actions. There could be a state administered "justice system" replete with Sheriffs, or Marshals or Rangers and the like. Maybe magical forensics, maybe it's simply witness tesimony. Maybe the society sanctions family vendettas, either dueling or even tolerate outright murder in the perperatrator sleep ... and the perpetrator's family, and their next of kin for good measure (depends on the victim family clout).
Deal with the problem in game, and don't worry about playing the long game, so to speak. Think Goodfellas where Joe Pesci basically rage murder hobos a barback, and then a made mafiosi. Despite these acts, especially despite the latter, Tommy seems to rise to the top of the organized crime world, to the point where he's invited to become a real bona fide member of la costra nostra, a made man. Instead, after the piano to "Layla" finishes its fade out, "in the face, so his mother couldn't give him an open coffin funeral." (I'd link but it's a pretty brutal moment).
But a further devil's advocate position. So they're murder hobos ... is that necessarily a bad thing? You run a few groups, I'm guessing maybe you recycle scenarios/encounters or maybe have them all in the same game world. This new gang isn't playing to the script to which you're accustomed. That might be opportunity. They want to be wicked, run a wicked game. No honor among thieves. Ambushes when they're asleep, ambushes with their own weapons so that if they get away, they have to buy or more likely steal new gear. Sleeping in the wilderness because they got run out of town only to be woken by an armed mob hunting them down. All this interrupted sleep means no long rests ... and make use of the exhaustion mechanics. If they don't want to comport to civilization, play in hard core mode and take away the supports one would expect from society. Maybe at some point they'll beg for redemption, and from your regular game you probably have a whole pantheon of figures who might grant them that prospect if they do right by that figure. That or they eventually get bored, thank you for your time and find another DM. The experience may be a challenge for you as a DM, but will definitely build up your "playing rough" skillset, and I'd argue it would make you a better DM in the long run.
I'm now on session 6 with my group of reformed murder-hobo's! I took a little bit of everyone's advice and thought I would report back.
Firstly I gave them all copies of the player's handbook to read over Christmas. I felt like they could do with a better understanding of the core RPG mechanics. They came back with a much better idea of their own characters place in the world and the many skill checks that may be asked.
In game, I then had them arrested for a murder they committed. This was slightly railroad-y as I sent 5 veterans after them, but showed that there are more powerful people in the world. They were eventually released as long as they agreed to be Vajra the Blackstaff's 'suicide squad'. They loved these turn of events and seem genuinely engaged in quests now. Durnan also had an in-game chat with them as his experience as an adventurer. They now always drink in the Yawning Portal and ask his advice. I love these moments as it involves some great role playing and shows that the team know they aren't the smartest folk out there.
For me as a DM, I'm now a lot stricter on rolling. No one rolls til i call for it, and I'm not afraid to put challenges in front of my team. Don't get me wrong, we still do funny voices and roll nat 20's to seduce goblins, but the fun is now hand in hand with respect for the rules and the world.
Thank you so much to everyone that gave their advice. It was genuinely so helpful! I sometimes think us DM's don't get enough credit. We read the massive books, practice voices, and make maps. We juggle the schedules of our players and remember all their characters backstories. So, thank you. From one DM to another, thank you for all you do for your players. Without you, this game literally wouldn't happen.
First thing you do is out of character explain that doing stuff like that can have consequences.
You can tell them that for example intimidating someone into doing something will make that person hostile toward you and they wont be forth coming with info in the future. They also might have connections in the city that will now look at you negatively. They might even give you false info that deliberately sends you into danger.
The real issue is that you don't want to keep rewarding disruptive gameplay because they will keep doing it. They got good results from using intimidation so they keep using it. Next time they try to intimidate Durnan have him kind of go Old Man Logan on them saying something a long the lines of having enough of this shit and saying he really tried giving the passivism thing a shot, then bouncing one if their heads off the bar. Durnan lore wise would probably be able to knock them out with one hit given he survived the undermountain. Or have him hire an ogre bouncer to do it for him. Or just have him laugh at them and announce to the entire bar free drinks for anyone who knocks out the one who is threatening him.
He's a masked lord of water deep. The players don't know that but if there was ever a time to introduce the concept of kicking a beehive when you run around messing with people you don't know as a lv 1 adventurer, that was it.
Another thing to consider is that just rolling high on a check doesn't mean you succeed. If a level 1 bard rolls a nat 20 on and intimidation check vs an ancient red dragon, there is no way of making any sense of that having any effect. Likewise, low level PCs rolling any intimidation check vs Durnan would probably at best, made him laugh in their faces and buy them a round.
If there are no consequences of antisocial behavior in game, just be prepared for your PCs to treat your world like its grand theft auto.
I'm now on session 6 with my group of reformed murder-hobo's! I took a little bit of everyone's advice and thought I would report back.
Firstly I gave them all copies of the player's handbook to read over Christmas. I felt like they could do with a better understanding of the core RPG mechanics. They came back with a much better idea of their own characters place in the world and the many skill checks that may be asked.
In game, I then had them arrested for a murder they committed. This was slightly railroad-y as I sent 5 veterans after them, but showed that there are more powerful people in the world. They were eventually released as long as they agreed to be Vajra the Blackstaff's 'suicide squad'. They loved these turn of events and seem genuinely engaged in quests now. Durnan also had an in-game chat with them as his experience as an adventurer. They now always drink in the Yawning Portal and ask his advice. I love these moments as it involves some great role playing and shows that the team know they aren't the smartest folk out there.
For me as a DM, I'm now a lot stricter on rolling. No one rolls til i call for it, and I'm not afraid to put challenges in front of my team. Don't get me wrong, we still do funny voices and roll nat 20's to seduce goblins, but the fun is now hand in hand with respect for the rules and the world.
Thank you so much to everyone that gave their advice. It was genuinely so helpful! I sometimes think us DM's don't get enough credit. We read the massive books, practice voices, and make maps. We juggle the schedules of our players and remember all their characters backstories. So, thank you. From one DM to another, thank you for all you do for your players. Without you, this game literally wouldn't happen.
Glad to hear it worked out well for you and your players. I'm also really glad that there was a good outcome to show them that they aren't Koveras but still continue playing the campaign. Well done for finding the resolution, and I hope the advice in the thread helped.
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So first off, intimating with the the NPC before the PC attack kill them, while still morally wrong, is a little less over the top than intimating all of them (all of them?) after the PCs attack and kill them. Sorry, had to.
So yes, like a lot of others, if the players are committing criminal mischief (not just murder, but larceny, maybe even squatting) they'll be exposed to the consequences of their actions. There could be a state administered "justice system" replete with Sheriffs, or Marshals or Rangers and the like. Maybe magical forensics, maybe it's simply witness tesimony. Maybe the society sanctions family vendettas, either dueling or even tolerate outright murder in the perperatrator sleep ... and the perpetrator's family, and their next of kin for good measure (depends on the victim family clout).
Deal with the problem in game, and don't worry about playing the long game, so to speak. Think Goodfellas where Joe Pesci basically rage murder hobos a barback, and then a made mafiosi. Despite these acts, especially despite the latter, Tommy seems to rise to the top of the organized crime world, to the point where he's invited to become a real bona fide member of la costra nostra, a made man. Instead, after the piano to "Layla" finishes its fade out, "in the face, so his mother couldn't give him an open coffin funeral." (I'd link but it's a pretty brutal moment).
But a further devil's advocate position. So they're murder hobos ... is that necessarily a bad thing? You run a few groups, I'm guessing maybe you recycle scenarios/encounters or maybe have them all in the same game world. This new gang isn't playing to the script to which you're accustomed. That might be opportunity. They want to be wicked, run a wicked game. No honor among thieves. Ambushes when they're asleep, ambushes with their own weapons so that if they get away, they have to buy or more likely steal new gear. Sleeping in the wilderness because they got run out of town only to be woken by an armed mob hunting them down. All this interrupted sleep means no long rests ... and make use of the exhaustion mechanics. If they don't want to comport to civilization, play in hard core mode and take away the supports one would expect from society. Maybe at some point they'll beg for redemption, and from your regular game you probably have a whole pantheon of figures who might grant them that prospect if they do right by that figure. That or they eventually get bored, thank you for your time and find another DM. The experience may be a challenge for you as a DM, but will definitely build up your "playing rough" skillset, and I'd argue it would make you a better DM in the long run.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Hi all!
I'm now on session 6 with my group of reformed murder-hobo's! I took a little bit of everyone's advice and thought I would report back.
Firstly I gave them all copies of the player's handbook to read over Christmas. I felt like they could do with a better understanding of the core RPG mechanics. They came back with a much better idea of their own characters place in the world and the many skill checks that may be asked.
In game, I then had them arrested for a murder they committed. This was slightly railroad-y as I sent 5 veterans after them, but showed that there are more powerful people in the world. They were eventually released as long as they agreed to be Vajra the Blackstaff's 'suicide squad'. They loved these turn of events and seem genuinely engaged in quests now. Durnan also had an in-game chat with them as his experience as an adventurer. They now always drink in the Yawning Portal and ask his advice. I love these moments as it involves some great role playing and shows that the team know they aren't the smartest folk out there.
For me as a DM, I'm now a lot stricter on rolling. No one rolls til i call for it, and I'm not afraid to put challenges in front of my team. Don't get me wrong, we still do funny voices and roll nat 20's to seduce goblins, but the fun is now hand in hand with respect for the rules and the world.
Thank you so much to everyone that gave their advice. It was genuinely so helpful! I sometimes think us DM's don't get enough credit. We read the massive books, practice voices, and make maps. We juggle the schedules of our players and remember all their characters backstories. So, thank you. From one DM to another, thank you for all you do for your players. Without you, this game literally wouldn't happen.
First thing you do is out of character explain that doing stuff like that can have consequences.
You can tell them that for example intimidating someone into doing something will make that person hostile toward you and they wont be forth coming with info in the future. They also might have connections in the city that will now look at you negatively. They might even give you false info that deliberately sends you into danger.
The real issue is that you don't want to keep rewarding disruptive gameplay because they will keep doing it. They got good results from using intimidation so they keep using it. Next time they try to intimidate Durnan have him kind of go Old Man Logan on them saying something a long the lines of having enough of this shit and saying he really tried giving the passivism thing a shot, then bouncing one if their heads off the bar. Durnan lore wise would probably be able to knock them out with one hit given he survived the undermountain.
Or have him hire an ogre bouncer to do it for him. Or just have him laugh at them and announce to the entire bar free drinks for anyone who knocks out the one who is threatening him.
He's a masked lord of water deep. The players don't know that but if there was ever a time to introduce the concept of kicking a beehive when you run around messing with people you don't know as a lv 1 adventurer, that was it.
Another thing to consider is that just rolling high on a check doesn't mean you succeed. If a level 1 bard rolls a nat 20 on and intimidation check vs an ancient red dragon, there is no way of making any sense of that having any effect. Likewise, low level PCs rolling any intimidation check vs Durnan would probably at best, made him laugh in their faces and buy them a round.
If there are no consequences of antisocial behavior in game, just be prepared for your PCs to treat your world like its grand theft auto.
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Glad to hear it worked out well for you and your players. I'm also really glad that there was a good outcome to show them that they aren't Koveras but still continue playing the campaign. Well done for finding the resolution, and I hope the advice in the thread helped.