I want to say this should be a CHR based mechanic, possibly involving intimidation and persuasion checks pending bidder's style and interpersonal strengths. Auctioning involves resources and will to spend those resources and I don't really see any discussion of PCs v NPC means to secure their bids. If the PCs aren't native to City of Brass they may run into a de facto cartel and win an auction in a way "that's not done around here" with repercussions (I always think the City of Brass has an intricate organized crime ecology).
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Well I was thinking along the lines of the Final Fantasy IX auction house. Where the NPCs will just call out to raise. Then when no more NPC challengers are available. The auctioneer does the" Going once." "Going twice", "Sold." Unless the player character bids.
So actually, taking on what you've already said...
I have 6 NPC bidders. Own stats, goals, etc. I roll a d6 to decide how many are interested in the lot up for grabs.
The party make a charisma check. Persuasion or Intimidation. The NPC bidders make a contesting charisma check. Anyone who rolls lower than the party backs down. Equal or above then the NPC with the highest charisma check raises. The party can then raise or back down. Of they raise then the contested rolls continue, until all the NPCs have backed down or the party back down.
They may end up intimidating the wrong person or catching the interest of the wrong person. I will also give them a chance to talk to the other bidders before the auction. They they can attempt to dissuade them from bidding on certain items.
Edit: For bad English.
This is why it's good to hash stuff out in the forum.
You raise an excellent point. However, how do you decide the maximum your NPCs are willing to raise?
Roll a d100 and double it. That's the percentage they're willing to exceed the starting bid by?
E.g. The lot has a starting bid of 100gp and the NPC has rolled 25 on the d100. 25*2 is 50 so they're willing to go up to 50% above the starting bid, so their cap is 150gp.
Of course if they roll 100 on the d100 then they're willing to bid 200% on top of the starting bid. So their cap is 300gp. Suggests a particularly spiteful bidder who's willing to bid just to stop other people from claiming an item.
Edit: Actually that works out great. Thanks for feedback everyone.
I'd just run it as a normal auction and decide what NPC wants each item the most. Set that NPC a limit that they'll go to, and they go to it. Allow for Intimidation if the PCs make big bids, but otherwise I don't see how social interaction comes into it.
Randomising the system is likely to mean that the players pick up items for an absolute steal when you roll low.
You raise an excellent point. However, how do you decide the maximum your NPCs are willing to raise?
Roll a d100 and double it. That's the percentage they're willing to exceed the starting bid by?
E.g. The lot has a starting bid of 100gp and the NPC has rolled 25 on the d100. 25*2 is 50 so they're willing to go up to 50% above the starting bid, so their cap is 150gp.
Of course if they roll 100 on the d100 then they're willing to bid 200% on top of the starting bid. So their cap is 300gp. Suggests a particularly spiteful bidder who's willing to bid just to stop other people from claiming an item.
Edit: Actually that works out great. Thanks for feedback everyone.
I’m glad you figured something out that works for you, but personally, I would have just picked numbers. I’ll also suggest, your players may expect these NPCs to be significant. Especially if one of them gets an item the players wanted. They will think there is a plot reason and want to investigate that person.
I'd just run it as a normal auction and decide what NPC wants each item the most. Set that NPC a limit that they'll go to, and they go to it. Allow for Intimidation if the PCs make big bids, but otherwise I don't see how social interaction comes into it.
I've auctioned and been involved in the auctioning of houses, superyachts, and what we in one sector of the industry called "Jac"assets (Jewelery, antiques and collectable) on behalf of government entities, including being a fly on the wall when folks were first figuring out how to auction crypto assets. I've also been present at a number of charity events where I've witnessed, for example, four NBA tickets with a total face value of $800 go for $80k because two finance bros were baiting a third's ego (or maybe he was a Superman, body language suggested some psychic contest that probably went back to some bathroom slight in the bathroom when they were in MBA school). Anyway between those stakes and even those abandoned storage unit or sheriff beater car auctions they sometimes make tv shows about, personality goes a long way (on either the persuasion/intimidation side, 5e doesn't mechanically capture all the ins and outs of human interaction, but in a game environment like an auction, folks with edges in those capacities lean on them). Sure, there are "rules" to make the auction "fair", but all these events usually are preceded with at least an hour of mingling where bidders do size each other up. Auctions, like markets, while system integrity is prioritized, there's nevertheless a influential social component behind the brightlines demarcating where fraud or corruption start. .
Randomising the system is likely to mean that the players pick up items for an absolute steal when you roll low.
And that happens IRL too. For whatever reason, or maybe good reason, the crowd just isn't feeling it for a certain lot, and someone can get away with something they wouldn't have if the more whale type bidders were invested.
To the broad idea of having auctions in your game, you could go real deep into how far you want to game the encounter. Maybe something they've opted not to bid on but has hype requires a WIS saving throw to avoid being caught up in an impulsive or accidental bid. On the other hand, if you wanted to get through the whole thing quick or easy, or on existing mechanics, you might want to use the gambling or pit fighting or selling a magic item rules in XGtE and do rounds of those where the price fluctuates accordingly. Actually, I'm thinking those systems as well as their mishap tables, would be a really good model to build an auction system out of.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Right so I've got an idea for a bidding mechanic for a auction that's going to be held in the City of Brass.
Basically;
1. Bid is Raised (Starting at 1/2 the items value)
2. Any PCs who want to take part rolls a d6.
3. The DM rolls a d6 for any NPCs who are bidding.
4. If an NPC rolls equal or higher than the highest PC roll they're still in the bidding. If they roll lower they stop bidding.
5. The process repeats until all the NPCs or all the PCs are no longer in the bidding.
I was thinking of having 5 NPCs maximum bidding at any time. (5 is the number of PCs I've got.)
What are your opinions? I'm trying to keep it quick and simple.
I think you're over-complicating it a great deal if you want to keep things "quick and simple"
If none of the items have any plot significance and this is just another way for the PCs to pick up some magic items or something, then forget about bidding directly against NPCs at all. Just set a price for each item in the auction and if they want one, have them make skill checks depending on the bidding style they use (Deception or Intimidation, probably) to see how much they can reduce the amount they end up paying for it -- or increase it, if they really blow the check. You can ask them in advance if there's a max they're willing to pay, and if it's not in the ballpark, then just tell them they drop out of the bidding early and it goes for X instead
If there is something of plot significance in the auction, then that should be the focus, so "quick and simple" shouldn't really apply
And as Xalthu said, if you introduce NPCs to bid directly against the players, chances are good the party will want to know more about them and why they wanted it. I mean, that might happen anyway, but you at least reduce the odds if don't give them actual NPCs to focus on
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You raise an excellent point. However, how do you decide the maximum your NPCs are willing to raise?
Roll a d100 and double it. That's the percentage they're willing to exceed the starting bid by?
E.g. The lot has a starting bid of 100gp and the NPC has rolled 25 on the d100. 25*2 is 50 so they're willing to go up to 50% above the starting bid, so their cap is 150gp.
Of course if they roll 100 on the d100 then they're willing to bid 200% on top of the starting bid. So their cap is 300gp. Suggests a particularly spiteful bidder who's willing to bid just to stop other people from claiming an item.
Edit: Actually that works out great. Thanks for feedback everyone.
I’m glad you figured something out that works for you, but personally, I would have just picked numbers. I’ll also suggest, your players may expect these NPCs to be significant. Especially if one of them gets an item the players wanted. They will think there is a plot reason and want to investigate that person.
Good shout. These NPCs are actually significant.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Right so I've got an idea for a bidding mechanic for a auction that's going to be held in the City of Brass.
Basically;
1. Bid is Raised (Starting at 1/2 the items value)
2. Any PCs who want to take part rolls a d6.
3. The DM rolls a d6 for any NPCs who are bidding.
4. If an NPC rolls equal or higher than the highest PC roll they're still in the bidding. If they roll lower they stop bidding.
5. The process repeats until all the NPCs or all the PCs are no longer in the bidding.
I was thinking of having 5 NPCs maximum bidding at any time. (5 is the number of PCs I've got.)
What are your opinions? I'm trying to keep it quick and simple.
Why wouldn’t you just do actual bidding? Decide how much the NPCs are willing to spend, and have them spend up to that much.
I want to say this should be a CHR based mechanic, possibly involving intimidation and persuasion checks pending bidder's style and interpersonal strengths. Auctioning involves resources and will to spend those resources and I don't really see any discussion of PCs v NPC means to secure their bids. If the PCs aren't native to City of Brass they may run into a de facto cartel and win an auction in a way "that's not done around here" with repercussions (I always think the City of Brass has an intricate organized crime ecology).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Well I was thinking along the lines of the Final Fantasy IX auction house. Where the NPCs will just call out to raise. Then when no more NPC challengers are available. The auctioneer does the" Going once." "Going twice", "Sold." Unless the player character bids.
So actually, taking on what you've already said...
I have 6 NPC bidders. Own stats, goals, etc. I roll a d6 to decide how many are interested in the lot up for grabs.
The party make a charisma check. Persuasion or Intimidation. The NPC bidders make a contesting charisma check. Anyone who rolls lower than the party backs down. Equal or above then the NPC with the highest charisma check raises. The party can then raise or back down. Of they raise then the contested rolls continue, until all the NPCs have backed down or the party back down.
They may end up intimidating the wrong person or catching the interest of the wrong person. I will also give them a chance to talk to the other bidders before the auction. They they can attempt to dissuade them from bidding on certain items.
Edit: For bad English.
This is why it's good to hash stuff out in the forum.
You raise an excellent point. However, how do you decide the maximum your NPCs are willing to raise?
Roll a d100 and double it. That's the percentage they're willing to exceed the starting bid by?
E.g. The lot has a starting bid of 100gp and the NPC has rolled 25 on the d100. 25*2 is 50 so they're willing to go up to 50% above the starting bid, so their cap is 150gp.
Of course if they roll 100 on the d100 then they're willing to bid 200% on top of the starting bid. So their cap is 300gp. Suggests a particularly spiteful bidder who's willing to bid just to stop other people from claiming an item.
Edit: Actually that works out great. Thanks for feedback everyone.
I'd just run it as a normal auction and decide what NPC wants each item the most. Set that NPC a limit that they'll go to, and they go to it. Allow for Intimidation if the PCs make big bids, but otherwise I don't see how social interaction comes into it.
Randomising the system is likely to mean that the players pick up items for an absolute steal when you roll low.
I’m glad you figured something out that works for you, but personally, I would have just picked numbers.
I’ll also suggest, your players may expect these NPCs to be significant. Especially if one of them gets an item the players wanted. They will think there is a plot reason and want to investigate that person.
I've auctioned and been involved in the auctioning of houses, superyachts, and what we in one sector of the industry called "Jac"assets (Jewelery, antiques and collectable) on behalf of government entities, including being a fly on the wall when folks were first figuring out how to auction crypto assets. I've also been present at a number of charity events where I've witnessed, for example, four NBA tickets with a total face value of $800 go for $80k because two finance bros were baiting a third's ego (or maybe he was a Superman, body language suggested some psychic contest that probably went back to some bathroom slight in the bathroom when they were in MBA school). Anyway between those stakes and even those abandoned storage unit or sheriff beater car auctions they sometimes make tv shows about, personality goes a long way (on either the persuasion/intimidation side, 5e doesn't mechanically capture all the ins and outs of human interaction, but in a game environment like an auction, folks with edges in those capacities lean on them). Sure, there are "rules" to make the auction "fair", but all these events usually are preceded with at least an hour of mingling where bidders do size each other up. Auctions, like markets, while system integrity is prioritized, there's nevertheless a influential social component behind the brightlines demarcating where fraud or corruption start. .
And that happens IRL too. For whatever reason, or maybe good reason, the crowd just isn't feeling it for a certain lot, and someone can get away with something they wouldn't have if the more whale type bidders were invested.
To the broad idea of having auctions in your game, you could go real deep into how far you want to game the encounter. Maybe something they've opted not to bid on but has hype requires a WIS saving throw to avoid being caught up in an impulsive or accidental bid. On the other hand, if you wanted to get through the whole thing quick or easy, or on existing mechanics, you might want to use the gambling or pit fighting or selling a magic item rules in XGtE and do rounds of those where the price fluctuates accordingly. Actually, I'm thinking those systems as well as their mishap tables, would be a really good model to build an auction system out of.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I think you're over-complicating it a great deal if you want to keep things "quick and simple"
If none of the items have any plot significance and this is just another way for the PCs to pick up some magic items or something, then forget about bidding directly against NPCs at all. Just set a price for each item in the auction and if they want one, have them make skill checks depending on the bidding style they use (Deception or Intimidation, probably) to see how much they can reduce the amount they end up paying for it -- or increase it, if they really blow the check. You can ask them in advance if there's a max they're willing to pay, and if it's not in the ballpark, then just tell them they drop out of the bidding early and it goes for X instead
If there is something of plot significance in the auction, then that should be the focus, so "quick and simple" shouldn't really apply
And as Xalthu said, if you introduce NPCs to bid directly against the players, chances are good the party will want to know more about them and why they wanted it. I mean, that might happen anyway, but you at least reduce the odds if don't give them actual NPCs to focus on
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Good shout. These NPCs are actually significant.