Update: A LOT has happened since I last posted, and this is unfortunately going to be a rant.
The player who was a lich (I'm going to call him Shaun) got rid of that character because he didn't want to play him anymore. Now he's playing a paladin. And of course, he designed his own magic axe that I again didn't look into properly before giving him. He wrote this huge thing with all of its abilities, and I looked it over, but apparently missed some key things. It's hard to look over everything he sends me because I have a lot of other campaigns I'm running or playing in, and I barely have time to plan for those. I've felt burned out for months. think I just trusted him too much to not make an extremely overpowered object. (I really should have seen that coming.)
So the story today went like this:
After killing the rulers of every province on the continent including himself, Shaun asks for the highest paying job on the job board. I say killing the tarrasque for a million gold, thinking the party of course is not going to take it. But then he says they should try it. So of course, I'm thinking there's definitely going to be a TPK because there is no way in hell a level five party can kill a tarrasque. They prepare for a bit, and buy some teleportation amulets "in case something goes wrong". No one knows what's happening except for Shaun. The other party members always just follow his lead. Then Shaun's character who is an Asimaar flies into the air above the tarrasque and charges one of the effects given by the homebrew axe. He calls it Kinetic Slam.
Kinetic slam: instead of attacking, you can spin the axe above your head. For each turn you spin you will deal an extra 1d6 damage. As an attack, you can bring the axe down and deal damage to every creature in a ten foot radius. Any creature in a ten foot radius makes a dex save (dc 19)
On a nineteen or a twenty it hits a critical
On a natural 20 you decapitate the creature you are attacking. If they cannot survive without a head, they die.
I had assumed that this had a time limit. It does not. So Shaun charges the axe for 8 hours. His character is just up there flying on her spectral wings for 8 hours spinning the axe. He seemd worried like a tarrasque fight would make someone. He later told me he was just acting worried and that he knew he could deal an insane amount of damage the whole time. And predictably, he one shots the freaking tarrasque. It just dies. No one else gets a single turn in because I let this person practically run my game for me. (wait now that I think about it he can't even technically fly for more than like one minute what was I thinking.) So now, yay everyone has a million gold. Am I crazy to feel kind of manipulated by this?
I seriously can't tell if I am just an idiot, or if he's just insanely good at manipulating the game like this. Every time I DM now I feel really stupid, and my confidence is really low.
1. I would not allow ANY homebrew that had a whole packet of stuff along with it. The description for any magic weapon should never be more than a few paragraphs, max. Even then, if you don't have time to read it, don't allow it just to be safe. You don't need to give a reason, but if they demand one you can always just say "the homebrew stuff got a little out of hand last time so I just want to dial it back."
That axe is HELLA op and no sane player would even expect their DM to allow it.
2. Aasimar wings only last a minute, so there's no way Shaun could've flown for 8 hours charging the attack.
3. If he can homebrew, you can too, just say the tarrasque is immune to insta-kill mechanics. It's a godzilla-level monster, you shouldn't be able to kill it on a single lucky roll. That's an example of homebrew that stays true to the spirit of the rules.
4. Shaun's character now has 1 million gold, and therefore no more reason to adventure, so will obviously be retiring from the adventuring game. I want you to say it with me this time: "No homebrew on your next character, Shaun"
I think this is a player problem more than a homebrew problem, Shaun is making the game Him vs you and as he knows the rules better than you he will try to twist them to "win". You say none of the players except Shaun know what is going on so I doubt they are having much fun. D&D is supposed to be a collaberative experiance you should be working with the payers to create the adventure not working against them
Even if you ban all homebrew Shaun is likely to take advantage of your lack of experiance as a DM. He somehow manages to persuade you to give his first charact two legendary items before level 4, players should not be getting such tems until at least level 15 or so, he can also try to twist the rules in ways that they are not intended. For example he could build a character extremely good at persuasion and "persuade" a conclave of ancient dragon to be his slaves. How to break the game using persuasion.
From what you have said Shaun is a toxic palyer and with him at the table noone else will have fun, I would inform Shaun that his playstyle in incomptable to how you like to play the game and therefore you will have to stop playing together.
By the way the terrasque is almost a joke monster in D&D, as it has no ranged attacks and no way to heal unless you start ruling they will become exhausted or something a 1st level arrakocra with a +1 long bow and a lot of arrows will be able to defeat a terrasque, (or at least force it to flee), they just keep their distance and shoot (With +3 dex, every 20 rounds on average they will get a normal hit with a 19 (average damage 8) and a crit with a 20 (average damage 12) so will do on average 1HP of damage a round so after a little over an hour the terrasque will be at 0 HP.
Even without Shaun I would massively reduce the amount and power of magic items you are giving players. At around level 4 they might be getting their first uncommon permanent magic item, and for a new DM it is a good rule of thumb that players do not get magic items that grant abilities that are not available to a character of the same level. So for example the first spell that might allow you to teleport far enough to get away from combat is dimension door available to full casters when they hit level 7 but that only has a range of 120 ft, to teleport accross the continent is a 5th level spell and even that has limitations, so it is a good idea not to give out magic items that allow teleportation until they reach those levels.
Update: A LOT has happened since I last posted, and this is unfortunately going to be a rant.
The player who was a lich (I'm going to call him Shaun) got rid of that character because he didn't want to play him anymore. Now he's playing a paladin. And of course, he designed his own magic axe that I again didn't look into properly before giving him. He wrote this huge thing with all of its abilities, and I looked it over, but apparently missed some key things. It's hard to look over everything he sends me because I have a lot of other campaigns I'm running or playing in, and I barely have time to plan for those. I've felt burned out for months. think I just trusted him too much to not make an extremely overpowered object. (I really should have seen that coming.)
So the story today went like this:
After killing the rulers of every province on the continent including himself, Shaun asks for the highest paying job on the job board. I say killing the tarrasque for a million gold, thinking the party of course is not going to take it. But then he says they should try it. So of course, I'm thinking there's definitely going to be a TPK because there is no way in hell a level five party can kill a tarrasque. They prepare for a bit, and buy some teleportation amulets "in case something goes wrong". No one knows what's happening except for Shaun. The other party members always just follow his lead. Then Shaun's character who is an Asimaar flies into the air above the tarrasque and charges one of the effects given by the homebrew axe. He calls it Kinetic Slam.
Kinetic slam: instead of attacking, you can spin the axe above your head. For each turn you spin you will deal an extra 1d6 damage. As an attack, you can bring the axe down and deal damage to every creature in a ten foot radius. Any creature in a ten foot radius makes a dex save (dc 19)
On a nineteen or a twenty it hits a critical
On a natural 20 you decapitate the creature you are attacking. If they cannot survive without a head, they die.
I had assumed that this had a time limit. It does not. So Shaun charges the axe for 8 hours. His character is just up there flying on her spectral wings for 8 hours spinning the axe. He seemd worried like a tarrasque fight would make someone. He later told me he was just acting worried and that he knew he could deal an insane amount of damage the whole time. And predictably, he one shots the freaking tarrasque. It just dies. No one else gets a single turn in because I let this person practically run my game for me. (wait now that I think about it he can't even technically fly for more than like one minute what was I thinking.) So now, yay everyone has a million gold. Am I crazy to feel kind of manipulated by this?
I seriously can't tell if I am just an idiot, or if he's just insanely good at manipulating the game like this. Every time I DM now I feel really stupid, and my confidence is really low.
Gadzooks! "Shaun" appears to enjoy holding dominance over the game table more than anything else. I can't imagine this being fun for any others at that table. Ultimately, it's your call as to what you allow in your games.
If "Shaun" blows up over not being allowed to create and use domineering characters with unstoppable weapons, items, and abilities, then that player has some growing up to do. If "Shaun" is willing to go with a less god-like playing style, but only if the DM constantly calls them on their shit, then that person prefers mentally dueling with the DM, over other forms of game play. You the DM have a choice: either study up and become just as knowledgeable as this person and watch their every move, or set some hard rules to include "No home-brew, period!"
If somehow your real-world friendship hinges on this person getting their way, then this friend has a manipulative streak that, in my opinion, should not be encouraged any further. Friendship is give-and-take, not give 'till it hurts then give some more.
Speaking only for me, as a DM or just a person in the real world, people like that turn me off. I have and do shut down that type of gaming behavior quickly, and without remorse. If that person stalks off never to return, then I silently thank them for removing the stress of their presence from my life.
Trolling. The first post most folks gave them the benefit of the doubt since who didn't play some crazy campaigns in high school. The second, the OP didn't read the thread or learn anything from any of the other posts if they even read them. It is just more of the same.
i'd like to say it's time to bow out and make the other guy dm a while but i suspect it wouldn't be long before an NPC joins the party looking suspiciously like the Shaun with cool hair, tons of charisma, and a legendary solution to every impossible problem.
PS, maybe before you go, try passing the guy a note that says "you've been replaced with a doppelganger. you can't let the group know that the paladin is no longer attuned to his magic items. help the others succeed without blowing your cover until i give the word."
Yeah. Just stop using homebrew and just play what you know you can handle. Saying No, is an option.
- Try playing without magic items, until you get the handle of it. Then just give them items in the DMG. Everything else: No. (they don't exist, they vanished, there are non here, people have't heard of them, etc). No crafting. - Also, don't use any items made by players.... if you dont know or want to know what an item does. Don't use it.
Then some choices: - let Shaun be the DM again. You need to understand the game better.
- or, just stop playing with him. He clearly is just manipulating you, and you are letting it happen. - Forget that campaing, and start a new one. That story ended... there is no more challenge.
Trolling. The first post most folks gave them the benefit of the doubt since who didn't play some crazy campaigns in high school. The second, the OP didn't read the thread or learn anything from any of the other posts if they even read them. It is just more of the same.
Yeah the next post form OP is going to read like this:
I gave the player another home brew item, I didn't realize he put a line in there that what happens in game happens in real life. He somehow convinced me to give him my spouse as his sex slave, and he forced me to chop my own arm off. I'd update more but it is really hard to type with one hand. How did this happen? how could I have stopped it? Am I being manipulated?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1. I would not allow ANY homebrew that had a whole packet of stuff along with it. The description for any magic weapon should never be more than a few paragraphs, max. Even then, if you don't have time to read it, don't allow it just to be safe. You don't need to give a reason, but if they demand one you can always just say "the homebrew stuff got a little out of hand last time so I just want to dial it back."
That axe is HELLA op and no sane player would even expect their DM to allow it.
2. Aasimar wings only last a minute, so there's no way Shaun could've flown for 8 hours charging the attack.
3. If he can homebrew, you can too, just say the tarrasque is immune to insta-kill mechanics. It's a godzilla-level monster, you shouldn't be able to kill it on a single lucky roll. That's an example of homebrew that stays true to the spirit of the rules.
4. Shaun's character now has 1 million gold, and therefore no more reason to adventure, so will obviously be retiring from the adventuring game. I want you to say it with me this time: "No homebrew on your next character, Shaun"
I think this is a player problem more than a homebrew problem, Shaun is making the game Him vs you and as he knows the rules better than you he will try to twist them to "win". You say none of the players except Shaun know what is going on so I doubt they are having much fun. D&D is supposed to be a collaberative experiance you should be working with the payers to create the adventure not working against them
Even if you ban all homebrew Shaun is likely to take advantage of your lack of experiance as a DM. He somehow manages to persuade you to give his first charact two legendary items before level 4, players should not be getting such tems until at least level 15 or so, he can also try to twist the rules in ways that they are not intended. For example he could build a character extremely good at persuasion and "persuade" a conclave of ancient dragon to be his slaves. How to break the game using persuasion.
From what you have said Shaun is a toxic palyer and with him at the table noone else will have fun, I would inform Shaun that his playstyle in incomptable to how you like to play the game and therefore you will have to stop playing together.
By the way the terrasque is almost a joke monster in D&D, as it has no ranged attacks and no way to heal unless you start ruling they will become exhausted or something a 1st level arrakocra with a +1 long bow and a lot of arrows will be able to defeat a terrasque, (or at least force it to flee), they just keep their distance and shoot (With +3 dex, every 20 rounds on average they will get a normal hit with a 19 (average damage 8) and a crit with a 20 (average damage 12) so will do on average 1HP of damage a round so after a little over an hour the terrasque will be at 0 HP.
Even without Shaun I would massively reduce the amount and power of magic items you are giving players. At around level 4 they might be getting their first uncommon permanent magic item, and for a new DM it is a good rule of thumb that players do not get magic items that grant abilities that are not available to a character of the same level. So for example the first spell that might allow you to teleport far enough to get away from combat is dimension door available to full casters when they hit level 7 but that only has a range of 120 ft, to teleport accross the continent is a 5th level spell and even that has limitations, so it is a good idea not to give out magic items that allow teleportation until they reach those levels.
Gadzooks! "Shaun" appears to enjoy holding dominance over the game table more than anything else. I can't imagine this being fun for any others at that table. Ultimately, it's your call as to what you allow in your games.
If "Shaun" blows up over not being allowed to create and use domineering characters with unstoppable weapons, items, and abilities, then that player has some growing up to do. If "Shaun" is willing to go with a less god-like playing style, but only if the DM constantly calls them on their shit, then that person prefers mentally dueling with the DM, over other forms of game play. You the DM have a choice: either study up and become just as knowledgeable as this person and watch their every move, or set some hard rules to include "No home-brew, period!"
If somehow your real-world friendship hinges on this person getting their way, then this friend has a manipulative streak that, in my opinion, should not be encouraged any further. Friendship is give-and-take, not give 'till it hurts then give some more.
Speaking only for me, as a DM or just a person in the real world, people like that turn me off. I have and do shut down that type of gaming behavior quickly, and without remorse. If that person stalks off never to return, then I silently thank them for removing the stress of their presence from my life.
Trolling. The first post most folks gave them the benefit of the doubt since who didn't play some crazy campaigns in high school. The second, the OP didn't read the thread or learn anything from any of the other posts if they even read them. It is just more of the same.
i'd like to say it's time to bow out and make the other guy dm a while but i suspect it wouldn't be long before an NPC joins the party looking suspiciously like the Shaun with cool hair, tons of charisma, and a legendary solution to every impossible problem.
PS, maybe before you go, try passing the guy a note that says "you've been replaced with a doppelganger. you can't let the group know that the paladin is no longer attuned to his magic items. help the others succeed without blowing your cover until i give the word."
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Yeah. Just stop using homebrew and just play what you know you can handle. Saying No, is an option.
- Try playing without magic items, until you get the handle of it. Then just give them items in the DMG. Everything else: No. (they don't exist, they vanished, there are non here, people have't heard of them, etc). No crafting.
- Also, don't use any items made by players.... if you dont know or want to know what an item does. Don't use it.
Then some choices:
- let Shaun be the DM again. You need to understand the game better.
- or, just stop playing with him. He clearly is just manipulating you, and you are letting it happen.
- Forget that campaing, and start a new one. That story ended... there is no more challenge.
Yeah the next post form OP is going to read like this: