In theory, let's just say a character has 3 points in charisma, and they become disfigured and lose an additional charisma point. Is it possible to go to 2, or for that matter. 1, 0, -1 , -2 etc? If so, does anyone know of any RAW or homebrew rules that would define the outcome of such low numbers?
Sure it is, just know that a 0 in a stat is often a qualifier for a character to be effectively removed from play (usually dead), until the stat can be replenished or the character can be raised from the dead.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Sure it is, just know that a 0 in a stat is often a qualifier for a character to be effectively removed from play (usually dead), until the stat can be replenished or the character can be raised from the dead.
Oh wow, so a 0 in charisma would cause death? I wonder what a good reason would be for that... I can see 0 in all other stats but not sure about Charisma. Maybe they become so horrifying and disgusting that someone kills them to put them and everyone else around them out of their misery? :D
Firstly, charisma does not equal physical appearance, so being disfigured would not, by RAW, have any impact on your cha score.
But to answer the larger question, per the PHB, scores can go from 1-30, so yes, it can go below 3. If it went to 2, there would be no impact (compared to a 3). If it went to 1, your cha mod would go to -5.
By RAW, I don’t believe there is discussion of a cha 0. Shadows can drain your str, and that kills you if it goes to 0. Or an intellect devourer can take your int to 0, which leaves you stunned. In older editions, a 0 cha left in a sort of listless coma, but I don’t think there’s anything official in this edition.
Firstly, charisma does not equal physical appearance, so being disfigured would not, by RAW, have any impact on your cha score.
But to answer the larger question, per the PHB, scores can go from 1-30, so yes, it can go below 3. If it went to 2, there would be no impact (compared to a 3). If it went to 1, your cha mod would go to -5.
By RAW, I don’t believe there is discussion of a cha 0. Shadows can drain your str, and that kills you if it goes to 0. Or an intellect devourer can take your int to 0, which leaves you stunned. In older editions, a 0 cha left in a sort of listless coma, but I don’t think there’s anything official in this edition.
Sure it is, just know that a 0 in a stat is often a qualifier for a character to be effectively removed from play (usually dead), until the stat can be replenished or the character can be raised from the dead.
Oh wow, so a 0 in charisma would cause death? I wonder what a good reason would be for that... I can see 0 in all other stats but not sure about Charisma. Maybe they become so horrifying and disgusting that someone kills them to put them and everyone else around them out of their misery? :D
Charisma in dnd also has a magical significance and psychological significance in dnd. For example the Maurezhi drains charisma and that is described as it draining a persons "sense of self" so they effectively loose all personality, forget who they are and become a monster. Similarly feeblemind drains charisma and is described as destroying the personality. Finally charisma is also used for saving throws like banishment this means that charisma is involved in holding your location in a magical sense. So you can think of charisma as your personality and your magical ability to assert your existence in the world. As a result losing it means a kind of ego death for non magical creatures or banishment in the case of magical creatures.
Here are some examples of how I might use charisma deaths
The player enters the mind of another to gather information, in the process their charisma is lowered to 0. They lose themselves inside the mind and never wake up.
The party drains the charisma from a powerful demon causing it to be banished back to it's home plane or possibly get lost between planes losing its sense of where it should be
A powerful enemy rewrites the mind of a party member completely destroying their old identity.
A fey losing it's charisma turns grey and becomes motionless or dies
A creature losing it's charisma in the shadowfell becomes a shadow monster
As far as I'm aware 5th edition doesn't have tables for this. But in previous editions getting to 0 Charisma put the character in a catatonic stupor.
Charisma is more than just physical appearance. It's how effective you are at interacting with and influencing the world around you. With a zero you have no ability to influence, thus you're catatonic.
In theory, let's just say a character has 3 points in charisma, and they become disfigured and lose an additional charisma point. Is it possible to go to 2, or for that matter. 1, 0, -1 , -2 etc? If so, does anyone know of any RAW or homebrew rules that would define the outcome of such low numbers?
The Ability Scores range from 1 - 30,, any lower may result in death, undeath or some other outcome.
Although the rule comes from a previous edition, I think the one one which says zero in an ability score equals death is a good one. It's a good one because it's the other needed limit to bounded accuracy. Just as there's no point playing with entities whose ability scores are above 30 (because nothing can challenge them), there's no point playing with entities whose ability scores are below zero (because they would have a chance of failure for even the simplest of tasks. Something like standing up would be a challenge that you'd have to roll for...).
Also, "roll to get out of bed" is one of the best descriptions of depression I've ever heard of...
Sure it is, just know that a 0 in a stat is often a qualifier for a character to be effectively removed from play (usually dead), until the stat can be replenished or the character can be raised from the dead.
Oh wow, so a 0 in charisma would cause death? I wonder what a good reason would be for that... I can see 0 in all other stats but not sure about Charisma. Maybe they become so horrifying and disgusting that someone kills them to put them and everyone else around them out of their misery? :D
Charisma in dnd also has a magical significance and psychological significance in dnd. For example the Maurezhi drains charisma and that is described as it draining a persons "sense of self" so they effectively loose all personality, forget who they are and become a monster. Similarly feeblemind drains charisma and is described as destroying the personality. Finally charisma is also used for saving throws like banishment this means that charisma is involved in holding your location in a magical sense. So you can think of charisma as your personality and your magical ability to assert your existence in the world. As a result losing it means a kind of ego death for non magical creatures or banishment in the case of magical creatures.
Here are some examples of how I might use charisma deaths
The player enters the mind of another to gather information, in the process their charisma is lowered to 0. They lose themselves inside the mind and never wake up.
The party drains the charisma from a powerful demon causing it to be banished back to it's home plane or possibly get lost between planes losing its sense of where it should be
A powerful enemy rewrites the mind of a party member completely destroying their old identity.
A fey losing it's charisma turns grey and becomes motionless or dies
A creature losing it's charisma in the shadowfell becomes a shadow monster
I know of some people IRL who have clearly hit Charisma 0 and they just.... don't .... seem ... to .... die................ :P
Joking aside, this is a great thought process, thanks!!
It's not a general rule, but specific one that will dictate what occur when an ability score drop to 0. An example is the Shadow's Strenght Drain attack;
Strength Drain. Melee Weapon Attack:+4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 9 (2d6 + 2) necrotic damage, and the target's Strength score is reduced by 1d4. The target dies if this reduces its Strength to 0. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest. If a non-evil humanoid dies from this attack, a new shadow rises from the corpse 1d4 hours later.
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In theory, let's just say a character has 3 points in charisma, and they become disfigured and lose an additional charisma point. Is it possible to go to 2, or for that matter. 1, 0, -1 , -2 etc? If so, does anyone know of any RAW or homebrew rules that would define the outcome of such low numbers?
Sure it is, just know that a 0 in a stat is often a qualifier for a character to be effectively removed from play (usually dead), until the stat can be replenished or the character can be raised from the dead.
Oh wow, so a 0 in charisma would cause death? I wonder what a good reason would be for that... I can see 0 in all other stats but not sure about Charisma. Maybe they become so horrifying and disgusting that someone kills them to put them and everyone else around them out of their misery? :D
Firstly, charisma does not equal physical appearance, so being disfigured would not, by RAW, have any impact on your cha score.
But to answer the larger question, per the PHB, scores can go from 1-30, so yes, it can go below 3. If it went to 2, there would be no impact (compared to a 3). If it went to 1, your cha mod would go to -5.
By RAW, I don’t believe there is discussion of a cha 0. Shadows can drain your str, and that kills you if it goes to 0. Or an intellect devourer can take your int to 0, which leaves you stunned. In older editions, a 0 cha left in a sort of listless coma, but I don’t think there’s anything official in this edition.
Wow thanks for this info!
Charisma in dnd also has a magical significance and psychological significance in dnd. For example the Maurezhi drains charisma and that is described as it draining a persons "sense of self" so they effectively loose all personality, forget who they are and become a monster. Similarly feeblemind drains charisma and is described as destroying the personality. Finally charisma is also used for saving throws like banishment this means that charisma is involved in holding your location in a magical sense. So you can think of charisma as your personality and your magical ability to assert your existence in the world. As a result losing it means a kind of ego death for non magical creatures or banishment in the case of magical creatures.
Here are some examples of how I might use charisma deaths
As far as I'm aware 5th edition doesn't have tables for this. But in previous editions getting to 0 Charisma put the character in a catatonic stupor.
Charisma is more than just physical appearance. It's how effective you are at interacting with and influencing the world around you. With a zero you have no ability to influence, thus you're catatonic.
The Ability Scores range from 1 - 30,, any lower may result in death, undeath or some other outcome.
Although the rule comes from a previous edition, I think the one one which says zero in an ability score equals death is a good one. It's a good one because it's the other needed limit to bounded accuracy. Just as there's no point playing with entities whose ability scores are above 30 (because nothing can challenge them), there's no point playing with entities whose ability scores are below zero (because they would have a chance of failure for even the simplest of tasks. Something like standing up would be a challenge that you'd have to roll for...).
Also, "roll to get out of bed" is one of the best descriptions of depression I've ever heard of...
I know of some people IRL who have clearly hit Charisma 0 and they just.... don't .... seem ... to .... die................ :P
Joking aside, this is a great thought process, thanks!!
It's not a general rule, but specific one that will dictate what occur when an ability score drop to 0. An example is the Shadow's Strenght Drain attack;