So I'm a relatively new DM. I'd never played anything like this, beyond players-vs-the-board type games and Mansions of Madness. The party consists of 5 people. We ran Lost Mine of Phandelver and are 4 sessions into Princes of the Apocalypse. We've actually spent a good deal of time on character backgrounds and so we've homebrewed and tweaked the adventures a pretty good amount to make it all fit.
That brings me to my rogue. In LMoP He was a Halfling and his roguish archetype was Thief. We didn't know enough about the game to tweak that type of thing, and so we went with the standard builds that came with the game. Going into PotA I told everyone they could change their races and classes to something else, keeping level 5, so that they could actually decide what they wanted to be, rather than just keeping the pre-made everything. The one caveat was that any changes would need to be explained somehow in the story. 3 of the 5 stayed exactly the same. My defensive-fighting style Fighter decided to become a Paladin and actually did a really good job of keeping his character as close to the original build as possible. We came up with a whole thing about how he wanted to give up his "fighting for nothing" lifestyle and actually fight for a cause. In this case, Tyr.
But the rogue. Oh the rogue. He wanted to ditch the Halfling Thief Rogue and become a Kenku Swashbuckler Rogue. I asked him how he'd explain the switch and he came up with this story that he'd been cursed years ago by a wizard "or something" he'd tried to rob, and the curse transforms into a new creature every 5 years. I told him that didn't make sense. His family is all halflings. He was just a halfling in the first campaign. The curse switched him to a halfling for 5 years even though he started as a halfling? His answer was that he was first a giff, then an elderly halfling (his character was supposed to be 150, which also didn't make sense when he decided that, but I guess makes more sense if he's not actually 150 and it was a form of the curse), and now he's a kenku. He was really adamant that he wanted to do it and so I finally caved in.
Then the first session rolls around. It was a big failure on my part that I did not notice the talking restrictions on kenku. So the five of them meet up in Phandalin to start their journey east to the Dessarin Valley, and there's a kenku. They ask him who he is and why he has their halfling friend's stuff. And he can only say like 3 phrases. So the Paladin (who now sees everything in black and white) and the dwarf Cleric (who has no patience for troublemakers) start to get angry. They ask him to write things down (Kenku can, as it turns out, write whatever they want). He refuses. So they throw him in the Phandalin jail, take all his stuff, and leave without even looking for the body of their "dead" halfling friend.
Since then the campaign has become the story of the 4 of them trying to figure out what's going on in the Dessarin Valley, while this Kenku runs around the area constantly getting into fights with the law, getting captured, and escaping. And he won't write anything down. He tells me his character reasons that no one will believe him. He's supposed to be a true Neutral, but he's always acting Chaotic (like riding a horse to death when he wasn't actually in a hurry, stealing a ladder when he had no need for a ladder, and so on). He doesn't act Evil in that he hasn't actually killed anyone unjustly, and I think part of being Evil is that you have to be somehow self-interested, and nothing he does actually benefits him. In fact, he's actually stumbled into fights and helped, then looted enemy corpses and run away a few times. So he's acting Chaotic something, but I don't know what.
I'm at a point where I either live with this until he gets himself killed, or force him to change something. I don't want to force him to do anything. I'm of a mind that the story should just play itself out. It's just frustrating that the story is always split.
So where are we now? He was recently captured in Red Larch while trying to steal his stuff back from the party. They took everything he had obtained to that point (bringing his inventory back to nothing), and they even found the lockpicks he'd been hiding in his mouth (finally!). The constable and the trusties are keeping a watch on him in the butcher shop while they await word from Triboar regarding their opinion on how he should be put on trial. He committed a number of thefts in Triboar, and they ended up putting a bounty out for him. Meanwhile, the Zhentarim plan to capture him. The Long Road side trek is all about the Zhentarim trying to figure out why they're having supply issues between Yartar and the Bargewright Inn. Well, as part of an elaborate setup to get the party involved in that side trek, and to finally approach Rivergard Keep, the party stumbled into a pirate (Crushing Wave) attack on a Zhentarim wagon. The Zhentarim had a variety of hidden agents watching the wagon as a part of the whole The Long Road thing. They were pleased that the party jumped in to help, however the kenku who rushed in and robbed the wagon while the party battled the pirates instantly became a creature of interest.
So I've got a trial that pretty much will end in his execution, since Triboar blames him for the death of one of The Twelve and of a civilian, and then the Zhentarim see him as an enemy and if they capture him and he doesn't answer their questions I think they'd just kill him too. My attitude has been that the players should get to do what they want, even if it gets them killed, but I haven't wanted to "punish" anyone for doing things outside the "story." It also seems a bit anticlimactic to just have him executed and that's that.
What do you think? Let it naturally play out, and if that means he's just killed without any meaning to it then that's what happens, or do I force the issue somehow?
I mean, this comedy of errors seems to have finally hit rock bottom. I'm not sure why you bothered enforcing many of the Kenku race's restrictions when your player's story easily gave you an out on those. He's not really a Kenku; he just happens to be in the form of one for the next five years or so.
But anyway, if your players are having fun with this, I guess take it to the logical conclusion. If the player wants to keep playing his character, maybe remind them that the talking restriction shouldn't work for him since he's not really a Kenku, or if he is, he has spent at least five years learning phrases and words in the voice of the halfling version of himself. Hearing an impassioned plea from the voice of their missing friend may cause the rest of the party to change opinions and try to rescue their cursed friend instead of persecute him.
Are you and your players all having fun? Sounds to me your not, and a dm gets to have fun just as much as the players. So in that case let him die. He doesn't seem to have done anything heroic to warrant a more noble death.
Your also not punishing him. A good dm doesn't punish, he lets the characters actions decide their fate. It's logical the npcs will find him guilty , and execute him, that's not you just because your the dm playing the npcs you need to play them how they would act, which given the above sounds like your doing a great job at it.
firstly, I don't agree with how you handled the switch to new characters. I would've actually just called a ret-con akin to tv series or movie series replacing actors - make the switch, don't attempt to explain it, everyone agrees that this was always the case, let's move on - eg. Don Cheadle replacing Terence Howard in Iron Man 2. this may have mitigated the shenanigans that followed.
nevertheless, I agree with the previous suggestions of letting the character die. if nothing else, it gives the player an out to make a totally new character who can integrate better with the party.
You said you're a relatively new DM, is the rogue player also relatively new? I ask because I've had plenty of new players that are excited about playing a game where anything can happen and try to "push the boundaries" in varying ways. I've always just taken the various actions and determined the consequences appropriate in my world. I don't really get too caught up in their alignments, more of a cause and effect methodology.
I bring this up because it sounds like that's the direction you are heading, which is just fine, but think of what to do or say after the fact. Let the players know that yes, it is, for the most part, an anything goes/open world game, but you are there to make sure the world reacts accordingly. Even though your player might be doing some semi-crazy stuff, they sound like they are enjoying the game, especially the ability to go "off-script" and do different things than what they could in other types of games. That's a good thing, just needs some balance.
I'm not sure why you bothered enforcing many of the Kenku race's restrictions when your player's story easily gave you an out on those. He's not really a Kenku; he just happens to be in the form of one for the next five years or so.
I actually haven't enforced the rule at all. He's done that himself.
Thank you for all of the thoughts everyone. Yes, all of us are new at this. I do think I'll let it play out in the world we've created as it exists without trying to come up with a solution on my own. Maybe the players will come up with something and surprise me, but if not then I guess he dies.
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So I'm a relatively new DM. I'd never played anything like this, beyond players-vs-the-board type games and Mansions of Madness. The party consists of 5 people. We ran Lost Mine of Phandelver and are 4 sessions into Princes of the Apocalypse. We've actually spent a good deal of time on character backgrounds and so we've homebrewed and tweaked the adventures a pretty good amount to make it all fit.
That brings me to my rogue. In LMoP He was a Halfling and his roguish archetype was Thief. We didn't know enough about the game to tweak that type of thing, and so we went with the standard builds that came with the game. Going into PotA I told everyone they could change their races and classes to something else, keeping level 5, so that they could actually decide what they wanted to be, rather than just keeping the pre-made everything. The one caveat was that any changes would need to be explained somehow in the story. 3 of the 5 stayed exactly the same. My defensive-fighting style Fighter decided to become a Paladin and actually did a really good job of keeping his character as close to the original build as possible. We came up with a whole thing about how he wanted to give up his "fighting for nothing" lifestyle and actually fight for a cause. In this case, Tyr.
But the rogue. Oh the rogue. He wanted to ditch the Halfling Thief Rogue and become a Kenku Swashbuckler Rogue. I asked him how he'd explain the switch and he came up with this story that he'd been cursed years ago by a wizard "or something" he'd tried to rob, and the curse transforms into a new creature every 5 years. I told him that didn't make sense. His family is all halflings. He was just a halfling in the first campaign. The curse switched him to a halfling for 5 years even though he started as a halfling? His answer was that he was first a giff, then an elderly halfling (his character was supposed to be 150, which also didn't make sense when he decided that, but I guess makes more sense if he's not actually 150 and it was a form of the curse), and now he's a kenku. He was really adamant that he wanted to do it and so I finally caved in.
Then the first session rolls around. It was a big failure on my part that I did not notice the talking restrictions on kenku. So the five of them meet up in Phandalin to start their journey east to the Dessarin Valley, and there's a kenku. They ask him who he is and why he has their halfling friend's stuff. And he can only say like 3 phrases. So the Paladin (who now sees everything in black and white) and the dwarf Cleric (who has no patience for troublemakers) start to get angry. They ask him to write things down (Kenku can, as it turns out, write whatever they want). He refuses. So they throw him in the Phandalin jail, take all his stuff, and leave without even looking for the body of their "dead" halfling friend.
Since then the campaign has become the story of the 4 of them trying to figure out what's going on in the Dessarin Valley, while this Kenku runs around the area constantly getting into fights with the law, getting captured, and escaping. And he won't write anything down. He tells me his character reasons that no one will believe him. He's supposed to be a true Neutral, but he's always acting Chaotic (like riding a horse to death when he wasn't actually in a hurry, stealing a ladder when he had no need for a ladder, and so on). He doesn't act Evil in that he hasn't actually killed anyone unjustly, and I think part of being Evil is that you have to be somehow self-interested, and nothing he does actually benefits him. In fact, he's actually stumbled into fights and helped, then looted enemy corpses and run away a few times. So he's acting Chaotic something, but I don't know what.
I'm at a point where I either live with this until he gets himself killed, or force him to change something. I don't want to force him to do anything. I'm of a mind that the story should just play itself out. It's just frustrating that the story is always split.
So where are we now? He was recently captured in Red Larch while trying to steal his stuff back from the party. They took everything he had obtained to that point (bringing his inventory back to nothing), and they even found the lockpicks he'd been hiding in his mouth (finally!). The constable and the trusties are keeping a watch on him in the butcher shop while they await word from Triboar regarding their opinion on how he should be put on trial. He committed a number of thefts in Triboar, and they ended up putting a bounty out for him. Meanwhile, the Zhentarim plan to capture him. The Long Road side trek is all about the Zhentarim trying to figure out why they're having supply issues between Yartar and the Bargewright Inn. Well, as part of an elaborate setup to get the party involved in that side trek, and to finally approach Rivergard Keep, the party stumbled into a pirate (Crushing Wave) attack on a Zhentarim wagon. The Zhentarim had a variety of hidden agents watching the wagon as a part of the whole The Long Road thing. They were pleased that the party jumped in to help, however the kenku who rushed in and robbed the wagon while the party battled the pirates instantly became a creature of interest.
So I've got a trial that pretty much will end in his execution, since Triboar blames him for the death of one of The Twelve and of a civilian, and then the Zhentarim see him as an enemy and if they capture him and he doesn't answer their questions I think they'd just kill him too. My attitude has been that the players should get to do what they want, even if it gets them killed, but I haven't wanted to "punish" anyone for doing things outside the "story." It also seems a bit anticlimactic to just have him executed and that's that.
What do you think? Let it naturally play out, and if that means he's just killed without any meaning to it then that's what happens, or do I force the issue somehow?
I mean, this comedy of errors seems to have finally hit rock bottom. I'm not sure why you bothered enforcing many of the Kenku race's restrictions when your player's story easily gave you an out on those. He's not really a Kenku; he just happens to be in the form of one for the next five years or so.
But anyway, if your players are having fun with this, I guess take it to the logical conclusion. If the player wants to keep playing his character, maybe remind them that the talking restriction shouldn't work for him since he's not really a Kenku, or if he is, he has spent at least five years learning phrases and words in the voice of the halfling version of himself. Hearing an impassioned plea from the voice of their missing friend may cause the rest of the party to change opinions and try to rescue their cursed friend instead of persecute him.
Are you and your players all having fun? Sounds to me your not, and a dm gets to have fun just as much as the players. So in that case let him die. He doesn't seem to have done anything heroic to warrant a more noble death.
Your also not punishing him. A good dm doesn't punish, he lets the characters actions decide their fate. It's logical the npcs will find him guilty , and execute him, that's not you just because your the dm playing the npcs you need to play them how they would act, which given the above sounds like your doing a great job at it.
yikes.
firstly, I don't agree with how you handled the switch to new characters. I would've actually just called a ret-con akin to tv series or movie series replacing actors - make the switch, don't attempt to explain it, everyone agrees that this was always the case, let's move on - eg. Don Cheadle replacing Terence Howard in Iron Man 2. this may have mitigated the shenanigans that followed.
nevertheless, I agree with the previous suggestions of letting the character die. if nothing else, it gives the player an out to make a totally new character who can integrate better with the party.
You said you're a relatively new DM, is the rogue player also relatively new? I ask because I've had plenty of new players that are excited about playing a game where anything can happen and try to "push the boundaries" in varying ways. I've always just taken the various actions and determined the consequences appropriate in my world. I don't really get too caught up in their alignments, more of a cause and effect methodology.
I bring this up because it sounds like that's the direction you are heading, which is just fine, but think of what to do or say after the fact. Let the players know that yes, it is, for the most part, an anything goes/open world game, but you are there to make sure the world reacts accordingly. Even though your player might be doing some semi-crazy stuff, they sound like they are enjoying the game, especially the ability to go "off-script" and do different things than what they could in other types of games. That's a good thing, just needs some balance.
I actually haven't enforced the rule at all. He's done that himself.
Thank you for all of the thoughts everyone. Yes, all of us are new at this. I do think I'll let it play out in the world we've created as it exists without trying to come up with a solution on my own. Maybe the players will come up with something and surprise me, but if not then I guess he dies.