My players are close to encountering an elder brain and they are very well aware of what it is and what it can do. They are thinking of possibly working for/with the elder brain as an ally. Id love to give them the option to do so but, What would an elder brain want form a dnd party? What could they do for an elder brain that i'd be interested in?
Well, it would want something that the Mind Flayers either can't do, or would be dangerous enough that it doesn't want to risk its own people on it. Mindflayers have a lot of conflict Duergar... maybe it would want them to clear out a group of them nearby, or to steal from them a rare treasure that could empower it further. Something like a jewel of power or something like that.
Broadly speaking, an elder brain wants its community to survive and thrive. As its community is a bunch of mind flayers, that tends to be less than ideal, though sometimes the mind flayers are disagreeing with other equally noxious types.
I agree with TransmorpherDDs -- it would have to be something that the Elder Brain and it's attendant Mind Flayer colony are incapable of accomplishing, and it would need to be something that is a severe threat to the colony. Otherwise, the Elder Brain would come up with a strategy to deal with it, either directly through conflict, or indirectly through manipulation.
I also agree with jwgz91 -- alliance with an Elder Brain will almost certainly require evil actions, and the Elder Brain will absolutely double cross the party once their task is complete, given even the slightest opportunity to do so. Simply put, the entire reason for being for the Elder Brains is to increase their own knowledge (and therefore power) at the direct expense of anyone or anything currently in possession of that knowledge. The simple fact that the party was capable of doing whatever it was the Elder Brain needed, when the colony could not, makes the brains of the party very valuable.
That said, there are a few tasks that could accomplish what you're looking for, but their viability would depend on what kind of CR your party can handle. The simplest way would likely be something involving the Gith. Sworn enemies of the Illithids, the Gith will relentlessly pursue one of their colonies and seek to destroy it, almost to the exclusion of all other things. Perhaps the Elder Brain has become aware of a Gith scouting party examining the area, suspicious of the presence of the colony. Or perhaps the colony needs access to an area where the Gith have some kind of outpost, and need it either destroyed or preoccupied. Or maybe the colony needs the party to steal some kind of long term scouting plan from a Gith war party so they can relocate to avoid suspicion.
Another possible situation involves a special type of Mind Flayer called an Ulitharid. Basically, as a colony thrives, it eventually becomes time for it to split and expand. The vehicle for this, which is also the only way that Elder Brains approach reproduction, occurs when a Ulitharid is born, and eventually takes some of the Mind Flayers away from the colony. The group eventually locates a suitable place, and the Ulitharid commits seppuku, transforming its body into a brine pool and allowing it's brain to grow into a new Elder Brain. But it's not a smooth process. Often, Elder Brains develop trust issues and begin seeing the presence of the Ulitharid as a threat to the colony, since it's entire purpose is eventually to tear a piece of it away to start the new colony. And often, the Ulitharid will chaff under the leadership of the Elder Brain, which ultimately is what makes it decide to leave. Perhaps you see where I'm going with this -- there's a lot of intrigue possible there. Maybe the Elder Brain wants the party to eliminate an Ulitharid that has been born among its ranks, to preserve the colony against the inevitable fracture. Or perhaps the Ulitharid will approach the party and seek for them to eliminate the Elder Brain, so that it may rule instead.
Another option is a Neothelid. Basically, if a tadpole from the brine pool is not consumed or implanted, it might escape and simply continue growing. Unchecked, it eventually becomes a giant tunneling worm-like creature. It shares some of the psionic abilities of Mind Flayers, but it has too low of an intelligence for their telepathic surveillance to detect, and as such its mere existence becomes a massive threat to the colony, both directly to the safety of their brains as well as potentially giving away the existence of the colony to the Gith or to local groups like Drow and Duergar.
I also agree with jwgz91 -- alliance with an Elder Brain will almost certainly require evil actions, and the Elder Brain will absolutely double cross the party once their task is complete, given even the slightest opportunity to do so.
Not necessarily, they're LE, not CE, they do make and keep bargains. That doesn't mean they won't have hostile intent towards the PCs, but it changes the style they'll use.
I think it's good to think of Elder Brains as having a "literal genie" mindset to any deals they make with the party. They're lawful, yes, but they're also completely alien creatures that place no value on the lives of other races. So an Elder Brain will fulfill the exact, specific wording of any deal it makes, but once those very specific conditions are met it would have no compulsion to remain civil if it has other desires.
I also agree with jwgz91 -- alliance with an Elder Brain will almost certainly require evil actions, and the Elder Brain will absolutely double cross the party once their task is complete, given even the slightest opportunity to do so.
Not necessarily, they're LE, not CE, they do make and keep bargains. That doesn't mean they won't have hostile intent towards the PCs, but it changes the style they'll use.
It would all come down to a risk/benefit analysis. If the colony would gain more than it would lose in doing a thing, then the colony is likely to do whatever that thing is.
What if the Elder Brain has a pod of Mind Flayers that have broken away? Maybe the Elder Brain wants the PCs to return the Mind Flayers to it's control. The PCs might see this as alright at first, but if the Mind Flayers that have broken away have somehow developed a conscience, it becomes a moral quandary. Otherwise, the Elder Brain may want the PCs to destroy it's competition- if there's another colony of Mind Flayers nearby, maybe the Elder Brain offers to give the PCs aid in exchange for destroying that colony's Elder Brain. Something along the lines of: `It seems less evil on the surface, but in reality empowering one enemy by destroying another could tip the balance of power in a dangerous direction`.
As said, a war with another Elder Brain or other powerful psionic entity may not be possible for illithids. Another Elder Brain could simply assimilate combatant mind flayers making neither side able to invade the territory of the other. The "Mind Flayer of Thoon" concept from 3.5e could work here. They are a splinter group of illithids that serve a Far Realm entity called Thoon (which could be a monster, deity, metaphysical concept, etc., we aren't told) that demands they act in ways that may be counter to the interests of other illithids.
What if the elder brain got a faint psychic trace of a ilithid brain in a jar. That jar is located in some hard to reach place, especially for another ilithid. The elder brain wants you to bring it home.
I think the easiest way to get an alliance to work would be an enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of situation. An enemy so powerful, so dangerous, that it threatens everyone. And the Elder Brain and the party would be willing to work together to take it down. Gith are a logical example, but you might also look at creatures from the Far Realm or Demons, creatures will such wanton destructive desires and the power to be apocalyptic that it would convince an Elder brain that a variety of skills that a PC party could provide is more useful than destroying them.
Dear dungeon masters,
My players are close to encountering an elder brain and they are very well aware of what it is and what it can do. They are thinking of possibly working for/with the elder brain as an ally. Id love to give them the option to do so but, What would an elder brain want form a dnd party? What could they do for an elder brain that i'd be interested in?
Do you guys have some suggestions?
- thanks!
Well, it would want something that the Mind Flayers either can't do, or would be dangerous enough that it doesn't want to risk its own people on it. Mindflayers have a lot of conflict Duergar... maybe it would want them to clear out a group of them nearby, or to steal from them a rare treasure that could empower it further. Something like a jewel of power or something like that.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Broadly speaking, an elder brain wants its community to survive and thrive. As its community is a bunch of mind flayers, that tends to be less than ideal, though sometimes the mind flayers are disagreeing with other equally noxious types.
I agree with TransmorpherDDs -- it would have to be something that the Elder Brain and it's attendant Mind Flayer colony are incapable of accomplishing, and it would need to be something that is a severe threat to the colony. Otherwise, the Elder Brain would come up with a strategy to deal with it, either directly through conflict, or indirectly through manipulation.
I also agree with jwgz91 -- alliance with an Elder Brain will almost certainly require evil actions, and the Elder Brain will absolutely double cross the party once their task is complete, given even the slightest opportunity to do so. Simply put, the entire reason for being for the Elder Brains is to increase their own knowledge (and therefore power) at the direct expense of anyone or anything currently in possession of that knowledge. The simple fact that the party was capable of doing whatever it was the Elder Brain needed, when the colony could not, makes the brains of the party very valuable.
That said, there are a few tasks that could accomplish what you're looking for, but their viability would depend on what kind of CR your party can handle. The simplest way would likely be something involving the Gith. Sworn enemies of the Illithids, the Gith will relentlessly pursue one of their colonies and seek to destroy it, almost to the exclusion of all other things. Perhaps the Elder Brain has become aware of a Gith scouting party examining the area, suspicious of the presence of the colony. Or perhaps the colony needs access to an area where the Gith have some kind of outpost, and need it either destroyed or preoccupied. Or maybe the colony needs the party to steal some kind of long term scouting plan from a Gith war party so they can relocate to avoid suspicion.
Another possible situation involves a special type of Mind Flayer called an Ulitharid. Basically, as a colony thrives, it eventually becomes time for it to split and expand. The vehicle for this, which is also the only way that Elder Brains approach reproduction, occurs when a Ulitharid is born, and eventually takes some of the Mind Flayers away from the colony. The group eventually locates a suitable place, and the Ulitharid commits seppuku, transforming its body into a brine pool and allowing it's brain to grow into a new Elder Brain. But it's not a smooth process. Often, Elder Brains develop trust issues and begin seeing the presence of the Ulitharid as a threat to the colony, since it's entire purpose is eventually to tear a piece of it away to start the new colony. And often, the Ulitharid will chaff under the leadership of the Elder Brain, which ultimately is what makes it decide to leave. Perhaps you see where I'm going with this -- there's a lot of intrigue possible there. Maybe the Elder Brain wants the party to eliminate an Ulitharid that has been born among its ranks, to preserve the colony against the inevitable fracture. Or perhaps the Ulitharid will approach the party and seek for them to eliminate the Elder Brain, so that it may rule instead.
Another option is a Neothelid. Basically, if a tadpole from the brine pool is not consumed or implanted, it might escape and simply continue growing. Unchecked, it eventually becomes a giant tunneling worm-like creature. It shares some of the psionic abilities of Mind Flayers, but it has too low of an intelligence for their telepathic surveillance to detect, and as such its mere existence becomes a massive threat to the colony, both directly to the safety of their brains as well as potentially giving away the existence of the colony to the Gith or to local groups like Drow and Duergar.
Not necessarily, they're LE, not CE, they do make and keep bargains. That doesn't mean they won't have hostile intent towards the PCs, but it changes the style they'll use.
I think it's good to think of Elder Brains as having a "literal genie" mindset to any deals they make with the party. They're lawful, yes, but they're also completely alien creatures that place no value on the lives of other races. So an Elder Brain will fulfill the exact, specific wording of any deal it makes, but once those very specific conditions are met it would have no compulsion to remain civil if it has other desires.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
It would all come down to a risk/benefit analysis. If the colony would gain more than it would lose in doing a thing, then the colony is likely to do whatever that thing is.
What if the Elder Brain has a pod of Mind Flayers that have broken away? Maybe the Elder Brain wants the PCs to return the Mind Flayers to it's control. The PCs might see this as alright at first, but if the Mind Flayers that have broken away have somehow developed a conscience, it becomes a moral quandary. Otherwise, the Elder Brain may want the PCs to destroy it's competition- if there's another colony of Mind Flayers nearby, maybe the Elder Brain offers to give the PCs aid in exchange for destroying that colony's Elder Brain. Something along the lines of: `It seems less evil on the surface, but in reality empowering one enemy by destroying another could tip the balance of power in a dangerous direction`.
As said, a war with another Elder Brain or other powerful psionic entity may not be possible for illithids. Another Elder Brain could simply assimilate combatant mind flayers making neither side able to invade the territory of the other. The "Mind Flayer of Thoon" concept from 3.5e could work here. They are a splinter group of illithids that serve a Far Realm entity called Thoon (which could be a monster, deity, metaphysical concept, etc., we aren't told) that demands they act in ways that may be counter to the interests of other illithids.
What if the elder brain got a faint psychic trace of a ilithid brain in a jar. That jar is located in some hard to reach place, especially for another ilithid. The elder brain wants you to bring it home.
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InsiderI think the easiest way to get an alliance to work would be an enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of situation. An enemy so powerful, so dangerous, that it threatens everyone. And the Elder Brain and the party would be willing to work together to take it down. Gith are a logical example, but you might also look at creatures from the Far Realm or Demons, creatures will such wanton destructive desires and the power to be apocalyptic that it would convince an Elder brain that a variety of skills that a PC party could provide is more useful than destroying them.
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