2 years ago I started D&D'ing with a group of college friends. None of us, except from the DM had experience. Now, two years and around 24 sessions later, I am taking over from the original DM.
The previous campaign never truely ended. To be honest, most players stil had no idea who the big bad guy was, or what was happening. After a lot of running around like headless chickens, the party entered a cult's secret lair and stopped some ritual. A big magical explosion happened.
And next session it is my turn. The old DM and I agreed that the big maguxal explosion would provide a new canvas. Many of the players want to create a new character (since this time they'll know what they are doing and what they like). But some grew attached to their old characters and wanted to keep them. And some want their old characters kept with just a few tweaks.
I can easily come up with a story why sone old the old character are magically throw to a new area of the world seperated fron the others. But these characters are now level 4 and fibally want to level to level 5. I am having trouble with the idea of starting the new characters at lvl 5 immediately.
Is starting at lvl 5 for a new class/race you haven't played yet too difficult? Is it weird to have half the party lvl 3 and half of it lvl 4? Should I just start all the characters from scratch, ignoring want my players want?
My current plan is starting the new characters at lvl 3 (as that is where subclasses are chosen. I delay the lvl'ing of the old characters by letting them choose 1 feat. Then after the first adventure all characters lvl up, and the next adventure the new characters lvl up, so all of them are lvl 5.
Dungeon Masters of beyond, give me your advice and shower me in your experience!
(I'll also need ideas for the setting of the new campaign, but I'll ask that in a different thread)
From the player's side of view, let them use the old character if the players attach it so much.
All characters should start at the same level.
If your players know and 5e well, they shouldn't be too much trouble starting at level 5. You may want to let some of the spell caster (i.e. Warlock, Ranger...etc) free to switch spell 4 times. TBH, some may even happier that you start at level 5
Just says those old characters are cursed and their level lower to lv3 if you want them to start at level 3.
I wouldn't give the old characters a feat, there's really no reason why you would have to and it's weird that the newer characters don't get the same bonus. Starting at level 5 doesn't have to be a problem, that depends on the players. If you think they can handle it, go for. Just talk them through their backstories to figure out what they have done to actually have levelled up so far.
That said, I think I would probably let the old players have their old characters at level 4 with the understanding that they would soon level up. You could start the new characters at level 4 as well or you could have them start at level 3 for a few sessions and then let the new characters level up to 4. After a few more sessions everyone goes to level 5 and everything is peachy.
The best choice is to ask the players what they'd prefer.
My preference as a player would be to keep my character at lvl 5 and continue. If I was rolling a new character I'd like it to be at level 5 (also because if I start at 3, the characters at level 5 will problably be stuck at that level for quite a while, which doesn't feel nice).
As the DM you need to run a game that you want to run otherwise you are likely to burn out. Have the conversation with the players about what you are expecting. Sometimes players need to realise (especially with a new DM) that they need to make it easy for you to run a game. If that means everyone starts at level 3 with new characters then let them know. Once you get some experience it might be easy to adjust. The fact that you are needing to ask this suggests to me a level of discomfort with the players not accepting what is comfortable for you to run the game. This isn't a big ask from a new DM. Don't try to think that you have to make the players happy at all costs. This isn't about ignoring your players wants but explaining to them the difficulty you have. If they aren't reasonable with this conversation you are probably getting into a situation you will not have fun in. Too many DMs burn out from trying to constantly give all their players everything they want at the expense of their own fun.
Is starting at lvl 5 for a new class/race you haven't played yet too difficult?
Have the players previously needed to continuously look up what their charaters can do? If yes, then for this group it probably is a thing.
Is it weird to have half the party lvl 3 and half of it lvl 4?
Most DMs I know have all palyers at the same level it just makes for a more balanced and fun game from my experience. But its up to you really.
Should I just start all the characters from scratch, ignoring want my players want?
This is not a one or the other, not giving the players what they want is not the same as ignoring their wants. Start the characters where your adventure starts.
My current plan is starting the new characters at lvl 3 (as that is where subclasses are chosen. I delay the lvl'ing of the old characters by letting them choose 1 feat. Then after the first adventure all characters lvl up, and the next adventure the new characters lvl up, so all of them are lvl 5.
I'd avoid the whole giving some people feats and others not. You are basically rewarding complaining. Have you ever seen a parent in a shop buy something for their kid to get them to be quiet?
Since you are changing DMs, I am going to break with most of the people here and say, start with a clean slate. Do not introduce into the game, on day 1, the baggage of the other DM. I have only had trouble when trying to maintain continuity with something another DM did -- because you are stuck with what you disliked, not just what you liked.
If players want to re-create an alternate version of their previous character, OK... but I would emphasize this is not the same person, and this person has no memory of any experiences held in the previous DM's campaign. The previous DM's campaign would not be canon for my world. Again... I have had too many bad experiences with this to be willing to try that again.
So if your buddy Frank played Bob the Paladin in the previous campaign, he's perfectly allowed to make up Bob the Paladin for your game, but it's not the same Bob. It's a new Bob, who will be doing things like encountering orcs again for the first time, having never seen them before, in this world. Pitch that your world is an alternate reality, like the Abrams Star Trek movies -- or a reboot, if you will. The old continuity does not exist for these characters.
Let them make up the PCs they want to make up, but be clear they are making new PCs. Not transferring the old ones with the old memories into your game.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Um... I know players get attached to their characters. But, I strongly advocate for Fresh Start. Sure, you all learned a lot in the time from the beginning till now. Hopefully new characters will reflect that. Have a Time Gap. Have them start on another continent. Sure, if they want to find out what happened to the previous characters, allow that to happen, but they are now NPCs (so make cool things happen to them).
Also... Have a Session 0! Make sure everyone participates and provides input and helps shape the coming world and it's changes. What would they like to see happen from their old players? Where do they think their new players will go? (All good stuff to gather ideas you can use). How do they know each other and how do they know other people in the world?
Thank you! All the players wanted to level, as it had been 7 sessions ago that we climbed to level 4. I always thought that the sessions were a bit slow, so I am aiming to do this a little bit faster.
Also decided to mix old and new characters. Bit stubborn as most of you decided differently.
I am currently having the session 0 individual with the players before we come together next time. This gives me the possibility to add secrets in the world that only certain players know. Also, all of them are eager to play again. Would you still recommend a session 0?
So if your buddy Frank played Bob the Paladin in the previous campaign, he's perfectly allowed to make up Bob the Paladin for your game, but it's not the same Bob. It's a new Bob, who will be doing things like encountering orcs again for the first time, having never seen them before, in this world.
Really considered this. However, so little happened, that the previous experiences hardly matter. I am going to place them in a far away place. If the dwarves act differently there, I will claim it on a cultural difference. If magic works slightly different, I will claim that there is a certain atmospherical distubances. I will remove OP magical items (perhaps the abused bag of holding) and set rules up front. But this way the interactions between the old characters can remain.
As long as you have Session 0 individually and cover what you are expecting and finding out what they want out of the game, there isn't a need for a group Session 0. I too enjoy the aspect that some will know things about the world that others won't and it is fun for players to reveal some information to other players. Or keep back secrets until later. Either way is good as long as some form of communication about it all was had you are golden in my book!
As someone who has pulled an ongoing character into a few different worlds, I think your players will be happy to work with you to make things work out so they can continue to play the characters they want. Everyone understands the difficulties, and you'll be surprised how much your players will be willing to just handwave away things in order to make it all work out!
I also agree that level 5 shouldn't be too difficult for people who have played D&D before. Everyone always need some time to get used to a new character, so there'll be some initial work on everyone's part to get used to the new classes and abilities. For that I'd actually recommend a group session zero after your individual session zeroes! Let the players have some time to tell each other about their new characters (or slightly adjusted old ones) and especially what everyone's abilities are. That can help that first combat go a bit quicker, and help any final questions or adjustments people want to make to compliment the party.
I am currently having the session 0 individual with the players before we come together next time. This gives me the possibility to add secrets in the world that only certain players know. Also, all of them are eager to play again. Would you still recommend a session 0?
Yes. Even if you do individual session 0s one of the main purposes of a session 0 is to get all of the players in the same boat. If Billy wants swashbuckling adventure but Lisa wants high intrigue and backstabbing in alleys, their wishes might clash and since you don't know what both of them wants until you've talked with both there will be no way of knowing this until after both of their individual sessions.
At least a short introduction for your first session where you basically go over what everyone wants to make sure that everyone else is OK with that.
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Hello hello
2 years ago I started D&D'ing with a group of college friends. None of us, except from the DM had experience. Now, two years and around 24 sessions later, I am taking over from the original DM.
The previous campaign never truely ended. To be honest, most players stil had no idea who the big bad guy was, or what was happening. After a lot of running around like headless chickens, the party entered a cult's secret lair and stopped some ritual. A big magical explosion happened.
And next session it is my turn. The old DM and I agreed that the big maguxal explosion would provide a new canvas. Many of the players want to create a new character (since this time they'll know what they are doing and what they like). But some grew attached to their old characters and wanted to keep them. And some want their old characters kept with just a few tweaks.
I can easily come up with a story why sone old the old character are magically throw to a new area of the world seperated fron the others. But these characters are now level 4 and fibally want to level to level 5. I am having trouble with the idea of starting the new characters at lvl 5 immediately.
Is starting at lvl 5 for a new class/race you haven't played yet too difficult? Is it weird to have half the party lvl 3 and half of it lvl 4? Should I just start all the characters from scratch, ignoring want my players want?
My current plan is starting the new characters at lvl 3 (as that is where subclasses are chosen. I delay the lvl'ing of the old characters by letting them choose 1 feat. Then after the first adventure all characters lvl up, and the next adventure the new characters lvl up, so all of them are lvl 5.
Dungeon Masters of beyond, give me your advice and shower me in your experience!
(I'll also need ideas for the setting of the new campaign, but I'll ask that in a different thread)
I wouldn't give the old characters a feat, there's really no reason why you would have to and it's weird that the newer characters don't get the same bonus. Starting at level 5 doesn't have to be a problem, that depends on the players. If you think they can handle it, go for. Just talk them through their backstories to figure out what they have done to actually have levelled up so far.
That said, I think I would probably let the old players have their old characters at level 4 with the understanding that they would soon level up. You could start the new characters at level 4 as well or you could have them start at level 3 for a few sessions and then let the new characters level up to 4. After a few more sessions everyone goes to level 5 and everything is peachy.
The best choice is to ask the players what they'd prefer.
My preference as a player would be to keep my character at lvl 5 and continue. If I was rolling a new character I'd like it to be at level 5 (also because if I start at 3, the characters at level 5 will problably be stuck at that level for quite a while, which doesn't feel nice).
As the DM you need to run a game that you want to run otherwise you are likely to burn out. Have the conversation with the players about what you are expecting. Sometimes players need to realise (especially with a new DM) that they need to make it easy for you to run a game. If that means everyone starts at level 3 with new characters then let them know. Once you get some experience it might be easy to adjust. The fact that you are needing to ask this suggests to me a level of discomfort with the players not accepting what is comfortable for you to run the game. This isn't a big ask from a new DM. Don't try to think that you have to make the players happy at all costs. This isn't about ignoring your players wants but explaining to them the difficulty you have. If they aren't reasonable with this conversation you are probably getting into a situation you will not have fun in. Too many DMs burn out from trying to constantly give all their players everything they want at the expense of their own fun.
Have the players previously needed to continuously look up what their charaters can do? If yes, then for this group it probably is a thing.
Most DMs I know have all palyers at the same level it just makes for a more balanced and fun game from my experience. But its up to you really.
This is not a one or the other, not giving the players what they want is not the same as ignoring their wants. Start the characters where your adventure starts.
I'd avoid the whole giving some people feats and others not. You are basically rewarding complaining. Have you ever seen a parent in a shop buy something for their kid to get them to be quiet?
Since you are changing DMs, I am going to break with most of the people here and say, start with a clean slate. Do not introduce into the game, on day 1, the baggage of the other DM. I have only had trouble when trying to maintain continuity with something another DM did -- because you are stuck with what you disliked, not just what you liked.
If players want to re-create an alternate version of their previous character, OK... but I would emphasize this is not the same person, and this person has no memory of any experiences held in the previous DM's campaign. The previous DM's campaign would not be canon for my world. Again... I have had too many bad experiences with this to be willing to try that again.
So if your buddy Frank played Bob the Paladin in the previous campaign, he's perfectly allowed to make up Bob the Paladin for your game, but it's not the same Bob. It's a new Bob, who will be doing things like encountering orcs again for the first time, having never seen them before, in this world. Pitch that your world is an alternate reality, like the Abrams Star Trek movies -- or a reboot, if you will. The old continuity does not exist for these characters.
Let them make up the PCs they want to make up, but be clear they are making new PCs. Not transferring the old ones with the old memories into your game.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Wait... 24 Sessions and just Level 5? Boy Howdy!
Um... I know players get attached to their characters. But, I strongly advocate for Fresh Start. Sure, you all learned a lot in the time from the beginning till now.
Hopefully new characters will reflect that. Have a Time Gap. Have them start on another continent. Sure, if they want to find out what happened to the previous characters, allow that to happen, but they are now NPCs (so make cool things happen to them).
Also... Have a Session 0! Make sure everyone participates and provides input and helps shape the coming world and it's changes. What would they like to see happen from their old players? Where do they think their new players will go? (All good stuff to gather ideas you can use). How do they know each other and how do they know other people in the world?
Thank you! All the players wanted to level, as it had been 7 sessions ago that we climbed to level 4. I always thought that the sessions were a bit slow, so I am aiming to do this a little bit faster.
Also decided to mix old and new characters. Bit stubborn as most of you decided differently.
I am currently having the session 0 individual with the players before we come together next time. This gives me the possibility to add secrets in the world that only certain players know. Also, all of them are eager to play again. Would you still recommend a session 0?
Really considered this. However, so little happened, that the previous experiences hardly matter. I am going to place them in a far away place. If the dwarves act differently there, I will claim it on a cultural difference. If magic works slightly different, I will claim that there is a certain atmospherical distubances. I will remove OP magical items (perhaps the abused bag of holding) and set rules up front. But this way the interactions between the old characters can remain.
Thanks for all your advice!
As long as you have Session 0 individually and cover what you are expecting and finding out what they want out of the game, there isn't a need for a group Session 0. I too enjoy the aspect that some will know things about the world that others won't and it is fun for players to reveal some information to other players. Or keep back secrets until later. Either way is good as long as some form of communication about it all was had you are golden in my book!
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InsiderAs someone who has pulled an ongoing character into a few different worlds, I think your players will be happy to work with you to make things work out so they can continue to play the characters they want. Everyone understands the difficulties, and you'll be surprised how much your players will be willing to just handwave away things in order to make it all work out!
I also agree that level 5 shouldn't be too difficult for people who have played D&D before. Everyone always need some time to get used to a new character, so there'll be some initial work on everyone's part to get used to the new classes and abilities. For that I'd actually recommend a group session zero after your individual session zeroes! Let the players have some time to tell each other about their new characters (or slightly adjusted old ones) and especially what everyone's abilities are. That can help that first combat go a bit quicker, and help any final questions or adjustments people want to make to compliment the party.
Find me on Twitter: @OboeLauren
Yes. Even if you do individual session 0s one of the main purposes of a session 0 is to get all of the players in the same boat. If Billy wants swashbuckling adventure but Lisa wants high intrigue and backstabbing in alleys, their wishes might clash and since you don't know what both of them wants until you've talked with both there will be no way of knowing this until after both of their individual sessions.
At least a short introduction for your first session where you basically go over what everyone wants to make sure that everyone else is OK with that.