Hello. ^^ I'm working on creating a spell for one of my characters. She is a bladesinger that yes, I do use on the front lines. But let's not get into how my little wizard has been tanking instead of our cleric. >.>
My spell idea is to be able to summon ethereal blades and use them to fight with along with my normal attacks. I got the inspiration from Animate Objects which you could use to animate swords and make ten attacks, and Spiritual Weapon which is an additional attack that helps give you more oomph, but doesn't take concentration from more utility or enhancing spells.
Level 2nd
Casting Time 1 Action
Range/Area Self 10 ft
Components V,S
Duration 1 Minute
School Evocation
Attack/Save Melee/ Dex Save
Damage Force
You create one or more shimmering blades, from the essence of the Ethereal Plane, that orbits around you and lasts for the duration or until you cast this spell again. As a bonus action, you can make a melee spell attack, for each blade, against a creature within 10 feet of you. On a hit, the target takes force damage equal to 1d6 + your spellcasting ability modifier.
When you have at least three blades, you can instead cause them to spin around you in a momentary circle. All other creatures within 5 feet of you must make a Dexterity saving throw or take force damage equal to 1d6 per blade + your spellcasting ability modifier, or half as much on a success.
The weapon can be any type of bladed weapon you choose. Wizards often choose swords that resemble those of famous fighter's or those who inspired them to take the fight to the enemy.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or higher, the amount of blades increases for every two levels above 2nd.
The idea is to, as a bladesinger, be able to attack or cast a spell with my action, and still be able to make melee attacks up close. I think this helps empower a melee focus with more damage, and my hope is that it is not too over or under powered. I know that without concentration it is fairly strong, which is why it does less damage then Spiritual Weapon, and fewer attacks then Animate Objects. I added the Sword Burst effect as a special alternative, which is only available at 5th level or higher and really no stronger then the cantrip, except as a bonus action. I considered making the sword burst an action but then you would be able to sword burst and make all the attacks at once and I thought that was too much.
I'm looking for opinions on it's strength and maybe how to increase or decrease it's power if need be. I really want to try avoiding concentration if I can, since it really isn't as powerful as most concentration spells, and figure it shouldn't be too bad since there are plenty of duration spells that are strong and without concentration. Fire Shield is the first that comes to mind.
Some ideas I did have is messing with the damage, removing the addition of ability modifier to the sword burst, decreasing the attack range to someone you are in melee combat with, increasing the minimum spell slot to 3rd level, things like that.
This is a tough one... The very thing you want from it makes it difficult to theorycraft the balance for. I could think of several different routes to take, but none of them seem very satisfactory to accomplish the design goal you had in mind. Effectively getting multiple and continual extra attacks at the cost of one spell slot and a bonus action is very powerful and needs carful consideration.
The best thing I can think of: drop the damage modifier altogether, start with 2 blades (for 2d6 damage), and match the scaling of spiritual weapon (+1 blade at 4th level, 6th level, 8th level).
This should even out the 2nd-3rd level range but also reign in the power at later levels. Puts it on par with other multi-target (but not AoE) spells while still keeping pace with Spiritual Weapon with potential output.
Like you mention, it is good to have it bit weaker up front since the multiple chances to hit should even it out in the long run.
Thank you for your feedback! I would like to discuss further some thoughts I have, and some things I'm a bit confused about. ^^
I agree it can be hard to balance, and having multiple attacks is certainly strong. Though I would say the only thing making this spell all that strong is the lack of concentration, and it's damage type. It's far weaker than Animate Objects in terms of power and attacks. As well this spell requires your bonus action every turn, where Animate Objects only requires it once on the turn you cast it, then your following turns are free for more spells.
I can get dropping the damage modifier to weaken it a bit, but I'm not sure why to start with two blades since that would only get you more blades, and more attacks, with lower spell slots. Doesn't that make it stronger?
Well... Animate Objects is not perfect either. It requires concentration, size of the objects determine damage, and the objects are "killable". Not to mention it is a 5th level spell.
It better matches mechanics with things like scorching ray or part of your inspiration, Spiritual Weapon, with both being 2nd level spells.
With spells like those in mind, I applied the law of averages and made the my suggestion
Scorching Ray - 6d6 (or 18) not continuous, but upgrades every level above 2nd
Spiritual Weapon (with an assumed modifier) - 1d8+3 (or 7) continuous, and upgrades every other level
Assuming you meant all blades got the damage modifier like having multiple Spiritual Weapons in play, I looked at that as 1d6+3 + 1d6+3 (or 12) when used with a 3rd level spell slot (with Scorching Ray is doing around 24 damage while Spiritual Weapon is doing around the same). When you consider the continuous damage aspect, that is really strong.
Starting with 2 blades and no modifier keeps it in line with both Scorching Ray and Spiritual Weapon while providing the flavor I believe you are looking for.
If I assumed wrong then it is mostly fine as is, and if you plan on publishing the spell, I would suggest making some sort of note of when the modifier is applied.
EDIT: apparently I can neither read nor do simple math late at night, so please forgive the multiple edits.
Funnily it was animate objects that first inspired me. My original design was only a 5th level spell with three blades that didn't scale. But I thought this would be more interesting and tactically dynamic.
With Animate Objects they are killable, though whether they are targeted or able to be killed is different so I don't take that into consideration. However if you carry around 10 short swords, I'd consider those small, that's 10 attacks at 1d8 + 2 at 5th level. I am gonna fix the scaling to match Spiritual Weapon, cause that was the intention, I just messed it up. So at 5th level my spell as is would do 2 attacks at 1d6 + 3, or 6th 3 attacks. Spiritual weapon would do 1 attack at 2d8 + 3, or 3d8 + 3.
With the proposed change then at 5th level my spell is now doing 3 attacks at 1d6 each and 4 at 6th. Personally I feel like this ultimately makes it weaker then spiritual weapon cause it has a decent potential to do 1 damage for a 6th level spell. Where Spiritual Weapon is a 50/50 to do nothing but at least has a 6 minimum if it hits.
I'm not saying I'm against the idea. Maybe it is best to take out the modifier. Just expressing what's on my mind. I don't want the spell to be too strong, but while multi-attacks give a higher chance to hit, they still have the same potential to whiff on damage as a single hit with the same number of dice.
The problem is the blades can attack multiple people, which is kind of my intention with it. To help take out the mobs. So I have to either apply the modifier to each blade, which does add up quite a bit if used on the same target, +9 at 6th, or none of the blades.
I feel like the spell not having concentration forces me to go with no modifier to keep it from being too strong when used with concentration spells. I'm just not happy about it lol.
With the proposed change then at 5th level my spell is now doing 3 attacks at 1d6 each and 4 at 6th. Personally I feel like this ultimately makes it weaker then spiritual weapon cause it has a decent potential to do 1 damage for a 6th level spell. Where Spiritual Weapon is a 50/50 to do nothing but at least has a 6 minimum if it hits.
I'm not saying I'm against the idea. Maybe it is best to take out the modifier. Just expressing what's on my mind. I don't want the spell to be too strong, but while multi-attacks give a higher chance to hit, they still have the same potential to whiff on damage as a single hit with the same number of dice.
You are not wrong, it is technically weaker. However, I was thinking of it from the standpoint of "burst" vs "sustain" damage. Sure it'll hit hard, but you only have one chance to hit with Spiritual Weapon. Even if you only hit with one blade, it is doing more damage than a miss with Spiritual Weapon. The trade off being that you need to hit with all blades to match a hit with Spiritual Weapon. It all depends on hit ratios, but I believe that is enough to give it an advantage. Until you whiff with all blades, then they both do 0 damage.
That is just my opinion though, and of course you are free to disagree.
Side note, there is also a case to be made in regards to the precedent set by published spells. Multi-target and sustainable spells are indeed weaker than one-off spells (with Eldritch Blast being the only exception that comes to mind).
I definitely see your point, and I'm gonna think on it a lot more and decide which one I want to go for. Ultimately it depends on my dm and they allow some broken stuff lol. But I want to be the player that isn't asking to break the game, and instead try to keep myself in check. I am leaning towards your idea of taking away the modifier and increasing the blades. Especially since without concentration it means I can still have other spells to help increase my effectiveness anyway, so losing the potential damage isn't that bad.
Someone else I was talking to also suggested having the burst effect there from the start, and changing it to be an action to use the burst, but still only one option can be used per turn. So you can either action sword burst, or bonus action multi hit. I was curious what you thought of that idea. I worry having the burst for lower level spell slot might change it's balance again, and making one an action the other a bonus makes the spell need more description. I try to be as concise as I can.
The only thing I would think change about the burst mode is remove the half damage aspect. If used in the right situation and hits, it will outperform Spiritual Weapon, but half for successful save from a continuous spell may end up being really strong. May also be fine for a 4th level slot too. Without having the time to research other spells, right now I can see it both ways.
Well the sword burst is basically the cantrip Sword Burst but flavorfully using the swords already summoned. But most leveled spell's, continuous or not, are half damage on success. Like Spirit Guardians just as an example, and that doesn't require anything after the first cast.
True, and that is a good example. I was unsure of what other spells may present from memory alone and wanted to throw it out there. And given the scaling factor, it should be fine as is.
Hello. ^^ I'm working on creating a spell for one of my characters. She is a bladesinger that yes, I do use on the front lines. But let's not get into how my little wizard has been tanking instead of our cleric. >.>
My spell idea is to be able to summon ethereal blades and use them to fight with along with my normal attacks. I got the inspiration from Animate Objects which you could use to animate swords and make ten attacks, and Spiritual Weapon which is an additional attack that helps give you more oomph, but doesn't take concentration from more utility or enhancing spells.
The idea is to, as a bladesinger, be able to attack or cast a spell with my action, and still be able to make melee attacks up close. I think this helps empower a melee focus with more damage, and my hope is that it is not too over or under powered. I know that without concentration it is fairly strong, which is why it does less damage then Spiritual Weapon, and fewer attacks then Animate Objects. I added the Sword Burst effect as a special alternative, which is only available at 5th level or higher and really no stronger then the cantrip, except as a bonus action. I considered making the sword burst an action but then you would be able to sword burst and make all the attacks at once and I thought that was too much.
I'm looking for opinions on it's strength and maybe how to increase or decrease it's power if need be. I really want to try avoiding concentration if I can, since it really isn't as powerful as most concentration spells, and figure it shouldn't be too bad since there are plenty of duration spells that are strong and without concentration. Fire Shield is the first that comes to mind.
Some ideas I did have is messing with the damage, removing the addition of ability modifier to the sword burst, decreasing the attack range to someone you are in melee combat with, increasing the minimum spell slot to 3rd level, things like that.
Edit: Fixed scaling to match Spiritual Weapon.
This is a tough one... The very thing you want from it makes it difficult to theorycraft the balance for. I could think of several different routes to take, but none of them seem very satisfactory to accomplish the design goal you had in mind. Effectively getting multiple and continual extra attacks at the cost of one spell slot and a bonus action is very powerful and needs carful consideration.
The best thing I can think of: drop the damage modifier altogether, start with 2 blades (for 2d6 damage), and match the scaling of spiritual weapon (+1 blade at 4th level, 6th level, 8th level).
This should even out the 2nd-3rd level range but also reign in the power at later levels. Puts it on par with other multi-target (but not AoE) spells while still keeping pace with Spiritual Weapon with potential output.
Like you mention, it is good to have it bit weaker up front since the multiple chances to hit should even it out in the long run.
Thank you for your feedback! I would like to discuss further some thoughts I have, and some things I'm a bit confused about. ^^
I agree it can be hard to balance, and having multiple attacks is certainly strong. Though I would say the only thing making this spell all that strong is the lack of concentration, and it's damage type. It's far weaker than Animate Objects in terms of power and attacks. As well this spell requires your bonus action every turn, where Animate Objects only requires it once on the turn you cast it, then your following turns are free for more spells.
I can get dropping the damage modifier to weaken it a bit, but I'm not sure why to start with two blades since that would only get you more blades, and more attacks, with lower spell slots. Doesn't that make it stronger?
Well... Animate Objects is not perfect either. It requires concentration, size of the objects determine damage, and the objects are "killable". Not to mention it is a 5th level spell.
It better matches mechanics with things like scorching ray or part of your inspiration, Spiritual Weapon, with both being 2nd level spells.
With spells like those in mind, I applied the law of averages and made the my suggestion
Scorching Ray - 6d6 (or 18) not continuous, but upgrades every level above 2nd
Spiritual Weapon (with an assumed modifier) - 1d8+3 (or 7) continuous, and upgrades every other level
Assuming you meant all blades got the damage modifier like having multiple Spiritual Weapons in play, I looked at that as 1d6+3 + 1d6+3 (or 12) when used with a 3rd level spell slot (with Scorching Ray is doing around 24 damage while Spiritual Weapon is doing around the same). When you consider the continuous damage aspect, that is really strong.
Starting with 2 blades and no modifier keeps it in line with both Scorching Ray and Spiritual Weapon while providing the flavor I believe you are looking for.
If I assumed wrong then it is mostly fine as is, and if you plan on publishing the spell, I would suggest making some sort of note of when the modifier is applied.
EDIT: apparently I can neither read nor do simple math late at night, so please forgive the multiple edits.
Funnily it was animate objects that first inspired me. My original design was only a 5th level spell with three blades that didn't scale. But I thought this would be more interesting and tactically dynamic.
With Animate Objects they are killable, though whether they are targeted or able to be killed is different so I don't take that into consideration. However if you carry around 10 short swords, I'd consider those small, that's 10 attacks at 1d8 + 2 at 5th level. I am gonna fix the scaling to match Spiritual Weapon, cause that was the intention, I just messed it up. So at 5th level my spell as is would do 2 attacks at 1d6 + 3, or 6th 3 attacks. Spiritual weapon would do 1 attack at 2d8 + 3, or 3d8 + 3.
With the proposed change then at 5th level my spell is now doing 3 attacks at 1d6 each and 4 at 6th. Personally I feel like this ultimately makes it weaker then spiritual weapon cause it has a decent potential to do 1 damage for a 6th level spell. Where Spiritual Weapon is a 50/50 to do nothing but at least has a 6 minimum if it hits.
I'm not saying I'm against the idea. Maybe it is best to take out the modifier. Just expressing what's on my mind. I don't want the spell to be too strong, but while multi-attacks give a higher chance to hit, they still have the same potential to whiff on damage as a single hit with the same number of dice.
The problem is the blades can attack multiple people, which is kind of my intention with it. To help take out the mobs. So I have to either apply the modifier to each blade, which does add up quite a bit if used on the same target, +9 at 6th, or none of the blades.
I feel like the spell not having concentration forces me to go with no modifier to keep it from being too strong when used with concentration spells. I'm just not happy about it lol.
You are not wrong, it is technically weaker. However, I was thinking of it from the standpoint of "burst" vs "sustain" damage. Sure it'll hit hard, but you only have one chance to hit with Spiritual Weapon. Even if you only hit with one blade, it is doing more damage than a miss with Spiritual Weapon. The trade off being that you need to hit with all blades to match a hit with Spiritual Weapon. It all depends on hit ratios, but I believe that is enough to give it an advantage. Until you whiff with all blades, then they both do 0 damage.
That is just my opinion though, and of course you are free to disagree.
Side note, there is also a case to be made in regards to the precedent set by published spells. Multi-target and sustainable spells are indeed weaker than one-off spells (with Eldritch Blast being the only exception that comes to mind).
I definitely see your point, and I'm gonna think on it a lot more and decide which one I want to go for. Ultimately it depends on my dm and they allow some broken stuff lol. But I want to be the player that isn't asking to break the game, and instead try to keep myself in check. I am leaning towards your idea of taking away the modifier and increasing the blades. Especially since without concentration it means I can still have other spells to help increase my effectiveness anyway, so losing the potential damage isn't that bad.
Someone else I was talking to also suggested having the burst effect there from the start, and changing it to be an action to use the burst, but still only one option can be used per turn. So you can either action sword burst, or bonus action multi hit. I was curious what you thought of that idea. I worry having the burst for lower level spell slot might change it's balance again, and making one an action the other a bonus makes the spell need more description. I try to be as concise as I can.
The only thing I would think change about the burst mode is remove the half damage aspect. If used in the right situation and hits, it will outperform Spiritual Weapon, but half for successful save from a continuous spell may end up being really strong. May also be fine for a 4th level slot too. Without having the time to research other spells, right now I can see it both ways.
Well the sword burst is basically the cantrip Sword Burst but flavorfully using the swords already summoned. But most leveled spell's, continuous or not, are half damage on success. Like Spirit Guardians just as an example, and that doesn't require anything after the first cast.
True, and that is a good example. I was unsure of what other spells may present from memory alone and wanted to throw it out there. And given the scaling factor, it should be fine as is.
This has been helpful and gave me some good insights. Thank you for all your feedback and help. ^^
Absolutely, I am happy to help, even if it is just to offer a different perspective.