Other characters would also benefit, as anyone could use this feature if they also can cast spells, have a list and slots. So if we want to examine power balance, (if that is the term that applies, although we're talking about out of combat "power"), it would be both distributed and able to be used for all characters in the party as buffs, aides, saves, etc.
Characters without spellcasting won't benefit, and they're already weaker in 5th edition than casters are; simply having a spellcasting feature already adds a huge amount of versatility to a character, and there are a lot of powerful spells. This is why spellcasters are limited in their choices.
But this change would overwhelmingly benefit the Wizard, because they have easily the largest spell list of any class in the game, and over time a wizard can know literally every spell on their class list (most won't, but they'll still know a huge number of spells). They can already cast literally every ritual spell that they know, what you're proposing will extend this to every other spell, it's a massive boost to an already extremely versatile class, it will unbalance the game even further in favour of full casters and casters in general.
And it will make the game less fun because it massively reduces the challenge of the game; instead of facing challenges and coming up with inventive solutions, the Wizard just needs to scroll through their spellbook for the spell that solves whatever it is they're faced with. That's going to be incredibly boring for everyone else to play.
I'm currently playing a fifth level Order of Scribes Wizard in a Strixhaven campaign, I've mostly chosen only spells that I find funny, with no consideration at all for combat performance or what spells will be the most useful (in fact I've specifically avoided some of the most useful spells in the game). And I still already have spells that I can use to solve most situations I face, moreso than any other player in the campaign, but at least I still need to be a bit creative in how I do it (because not every spell is a perfect fit).
There is no need for me to have more options. I don't want them, and no-one else in the campaign would want me to have them. Them also getting more flexibility wouldn't fix the balance issue, because I'd still gain more.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I think you may not have read or maybe have discounted the part where I went through the spells I've actually listed, many of which do allow a caster to Buff another character or change the area (like Fog Cloud) in ways that can affect another character. Rituals are great, but they can't cast Grease as a ritual, and other casting classes/magic users don't get the same benefit with as many Ritual spells. This idea isn't just about Wizards.
Here is a proposal and a list of spells this would include, and (relevant to the character you reference) wouldn't take effect until level 9.
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After level 7 all classes who use any magic do not need to prep cantrips. After level 9 all classes do not need to prep level 1 spells (but are still limited by spell slots in how they use them).
If a characters casts an unprepped cantrip or spell they must roll on the Wild Magic Table for an effect.
In combat a character is also limited by a normal action economy, so would likely not risk the Wild Magic roll in battle to use an unprepped level 1 spell unless they're chaotic or desperate!
--------------------------------------
I'm looking at the spells list for level 1 Wizard spells. Here is a list.
So these are going to break the game? (Remember about 1/4 of them could be prepped anyway by level 9).
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Although this began about Wizards, I'm not trying to improve Wizards. A lot of these (Jump, Longstrider, Feather Fall, Fog Cloud, Alarm) can be used to directly apply to another character and increase their abilities.
I started thinking about this in relation to a Druid who never cast a lot of the fun low level Druid spells.
I love that you prep spells that are just fun! This also would allow you to just use spells that are fun, and if they're not prepped, have a consequence.
So these are going to break the game? (Remember about 1/4 of them could be prepped anyway by level 9).
Absolutely; because now your Wizard can instantly set an alarm, frighten or charm a target, understand all languages, disguise themselves, cheat merchants, be immune to falling, carry an extra 500 lbs, obscure an area, knock enemies prone, identify magic items, hide messages, jump further, run faster, create illusions or have a servant do things for them, without having to think about what spells to prepare whatsoever.
If you want to charm an NPC you no longer have to worry about how you do it, you just do it. Likewise with fear, or when you want to sneak somewhere in disguise, or you need to create distractions, or encounter obstacles like chasms, or need to run away and so-on and so-on. The Wizard doesn't need to think about what they need only what they want.
And this is only at first level, at 3rd-level you get another few dozen 2nd-level spells you could know, and a few more at 5th-level (3rd-level spells) and so-on. It is a huge force multiplier and is giving Wizards enormously more flexibility than they already have. Part of the fun of playing a Wizard is planning what spells you are going to prepare; it rewards gaining information about what you might face, or planning what you're going to do. If you know you're going to be trying to sneak in somewhere you can change your prepared spells to be better at infiltration and/or social stealth.
This change would eliminate the need for any of that, it will reduce every situation down to "I just cast the spell that solves this exact problem". Just take a look at how many features other classes have; the Wizard effectively has dozens of times that many already, and this will only multiply it further.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Everyone here has explained how this is a bad idea, and given examples, and yet you seem to insist on ignoring us in favour of declaring otherwise. You say that you're open to ideas yet all I've seen thus far is you arguing your case and ignoring others.
You spend so much time telling me I'm wrong you don't actually engage in possibilities, look at the range of spells actually there, or think outside of how a party could abuse something like this idea. Parties can abuse just about anything, if that is what they want to do.
You also have not responded to any of the ideas about methods of implementing repercussions for using unprepped spells. This may be a bad idea, and I get that it may be, but lets talk about it rather than simply discounting based on your years of experience.
I'll go backwards and propose a system.
--------------------------------------
After level 7 all classes who use any magic do not need to prep cantrips. After level 9 all classes do not need to prep level 1 spells (but are still limited by spell slots in how they use them).
If a characters casts an unprepped cantrip or spell they must roll on the Wild Magic Table for an effect.
In combat a character is also limited by a normal action economy, so would likely not risk the Wild Magic roll in battle to use an unprepped level 1 spell unless they're chaotic or desperate!
--------------------------------------
I'm looking at the spells list for level 1 Wizard spells. Here is a list.
So these are going to break the game? (Remember about 1/4 of them could be prepped anyway by level 9).
1. we straight up have given you possibilities and youve quite literally blown them off as being ridiculous, or just straight up ignored us
but also if your talking about homebrewing a system in, you have to think about how it can, and will be broken, so you can ensure it wont be, thats how game development goes, just because you say "hey anyone can break anything" doesnt mean its a good idea to implement a horrible idea that will break the game even further
Havarrik is right in all his lasts couple of posts, it doesnt matter if they have to roll a wild magic surge, with that level of versatility in the game, a wizard or any casters going to take it, and heck some of the first level spells, are the strongest and most versatile spells in the game
Everyone here has explained how this is a bad idea, and given examples, and yet you seem to insist on ignoring us in favour of declaring otherwise. You say that you're open to ideas yet all I've seen thus far is you arguing your case and ignoring others.
You spend so much time telling me I'm wrong you don't actually engage in possibilities, look at the range of spells actually there, or think outside of how a party could abuse something like this idea. Parties can abuse just about anything, if that is what they want to do.
You also have not responded to any of the ideas about methods of implementing repercussions for using unprepped spells. This may be a bad idea, and I get that it may be, but lets talk about it rather than simply discounting based on your years of experience.
I'll go backwards and propose a system.
--------------------------------------
After level 7 all classes who use any magic do not need to prep cantrips. After level 9 all classes do not need to prep level 1 spells (but are still limited by spell slots in how they use them).
If a characters casts an unprepped cantrip or spell they must roll on the Wild Magic Table for an effect.
In combat a character is also limited by a normal action economy, so would likely not risk the Wild Magic roll in battle to use an unprepped level 1 spell unless they're chaotic or desperate!
--------------------------------------
I'm looking at the spells list for level 1 Wizard spells. Here is a list.
So these are going to break the game? (Remember about 1/4 of them could be prepped anyway by level 9).
1. we straight up have given you possibilities and youve quite literally blown them off as being ridiculous, or just straight up ignored us
but also if your talking about homebrewing a system in, you have to think about how it can, and will be broken, so you can ensure it wont be, thats how game development goes, just because you say "hey anyone can break anything" doesnt mean its a good idea to implement a horrible idea that will break the game even further
Havarrik is right in all his lasts couple of posts, it doesnt matter if they have to roll a wild magic surge, with that level of versatility in the game, a wizard or any casters going to take it, and heck some of the first level spells, are the strongest and most versatile spells in the game
So combative. I've not blown anything off! I'm proposing an idea and looking for specific and example driven feedback. Most of your posts, and a few others, are filed with the usual vitriol of "how can you be so stupid to propose this inane idea that will surely break every single game it's used in, don't you understand?"
Just support your arguments with more than ranting, and I will address your arguments. :)
So these are going to break the game? (Remember about 1/4 of them could be prepped anyway by level 9).
Absolutely; because now your Wizard can instantly set an alarm, frighten or charm a target, understand all languages, disguise themselves, cheat merchants, be immune to falling, carry an extra 500 lbs, obscure an area, knock enemies prone, identify magic items, hide messages, jump further, run faster, create illusions or have a servant do things for them, without having to think about what spells to prepare whatsoever.
So they can instantly do some of these things regardless, right, if these are prepped? They can also use some as rituals. Which has a time delay component.
If you want to charm an NPC you no longer have to worry about how you do it, you just do it. Likewise with fear, or when you want to sneak somewhere in disguise, or you need to create distractions, or encounter obstacles like chasms, or need to run away and so-on and so-on. The Wizard doesn't need to think about what they need only what they want.
Charm has consequences of its own. So you still have to worry about it, and you still have a slot expended plus the Wild Magic. This is not always a small detail, BTW. Have you played a Wild Magic Sorcerer before? I have, and got shrunk to 2'2" through the Wild Magic table rolls, damaged myself and half my party with a fireball during combat, and a few other choice effects.
I get that there are more options available. That is the point. My players are also very conscious of their spell slot economy as with a Wizard only getting to replenish on a long rest, if there are 2-3 combats in a day, they could struggle if they're using them as they want throughout the role play and exploration.
And this is only at first level, at 3rd-level you get another few dozen 2nd-level spells you could know, and a few more at 5th-level (3rd-level spells) and so-on. It is a huge force multiplier and is giving Wizards enormously more flexibility than they already have. Part of the fun of playing a Wizard is planning what spells you are going to prepare; it rewards gaining information about what you might face, or planning what you're going to do. If you know you're going to be trying to sneak in somewhere you can change your prepared spells to be better at infiltration and/or social stealth.
I'm only proposing this for first level spells at level 9, so it's admittedly a niche idea to get more creative use of odd and fun spells at lower levels into game when the stakes are low. As stated, I was originally thinking more about a Druid I know rather than a Wizard.
I love to situationally prepare, but I don't always have a clue where the party is going as a player, and my players get thrown curveballs all of the time. So I could foreshadow more, but that is a bit boring as well, if it means spelling everything out that is about to happen.
This change would eliminate the need for any of that, it will reduce every situation down to "I just cast the spell that solves this exact problem". Just take a look at how many features other classes have; the Wizard effectively has dozens of times that many already, and this will only multiply it further.
Aside from the Wizard, I feel like this is an idea to help magic users utilize spells they don't usually prepare, to get them a chance to see how interesting they can be if available.
No need to respond further. I get where the community of 4-5 responding here are concerning this idea. If I do it I'll report back on the outcomes.
So they can instantly do some of these things regardless, right, if these are prepped? They can also use some as rituals. Which has a time delay component.
But only if they prepare them or have the necessary ritual casting features and time, which is a major component of how they're balanced. Just because any Wizard could learn, prepare and cast a spell isn't a good reason why every Wizard should be able to cast it whenever they like. It's the same reason why Battle Masters don't know every manoeuvre (which would arguably have fewer balance issues).
Charm has consequences of its own. So you still have to worry about it, and you still have a slot expended plus the Wild Magic. This is not always a small detail, BTW. Have you played a Wild Magic Sorcerer before? I have, and got shrunk to 2'2" through the Wild Magic table rolls, damaged myself and half my party with a fireball during combat, and a few other choice effects.
Most Surge results aren't actually that bad out of combat; even exploding in a fireball only requires your party to stand clear and be ready to heal you just in case of the 1 in 50 chance of rolling that result. Almost everything else wears off after around a minute, and most results even that detrimental, while a lot of them are actually significant boosts.
Aside from the Wizard, I feel like this is an idea to help magic users utilize spells they don't usually prepare, to get them a chance to see how interesting they can be if available.
The best way to get players to prepare different spells is to provide hints, or opportunities to learn about, what they might be about to face.
For example, if a party knows they're going to need to get into a person's mansion then they can prepare for infiltration and/or social stealth by preparing spells like charm person or disguise self, but a party that ignores your hints and doesn't even try to plan should be punished mercilessly for half-assing everything. 😝
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Everyone here has explained how this is a bad idea, and given examples, and yet you seem to insist on ignoring us in favour of declaring otherwise. You say that you're open to ideas yet all I've seen thus far is you arguing your case and ignoring others.
You spend so much time telling me I'm wrong you don't actually engage in possibilities, look at the range of spells actually there, or think outside of how a party could abuse something like this idea. Parties can abuse just about anything, if that is what they want to do.
You also have not responded to any of the ideas about methods of implementing repercussions for using unprepped spells. This may be a bad idea, and I get that it may be, but lets talk about it rather than simply discounting based on your years of experience.
I'll go backwards and propose a system.
--------------------------------------
After level 7 all classes who use any magic do not need to prep cantrips. After level 9 all classes do not need to prep level 1 spells (but are still limited by spell slots in how they use them).
If a characters casts an unprepped cantrip or spell they must roll on the Wild Magic Table for an effect.
In combat a character is also limited by a normal action economy, so would likely not risk the Wild Magic roll in battle to use an unprepped level 1 spell unless they're chaotic or desperate!
--------------------------------------
I'm looking at the spells list for level 1 Wizard spells. Here is a list.
So these are going to break the game? (Remember about 1/4 of them could be prepped anyway by level 9).
1. we straight up have given you possibilities and youve quite literally blown them off as being ridiculous, or just straight up ignored us
but also if your talking about homebrewing a system in, you have to think about how it can, and will be broken, so you can ensure it wont be, thats how game development goes, just because you say "hey anyone can break anything" doesnt mean its a good idea to implement a horrible idea that will break the game even further
Havarrik is right in all his lasts couple of posts, it doesnt matter if they have to roll a wild magic surge, with that level of versatility in the game, a wizard or any casters going to take it, and heck some of the first level spells, are the strongest and most versatile spells in the game
So combative. I've not blown anything off! I'm proposing an idea and looking for specific and example driven feedback. Most of your posts, and a few others, are filed with the usual vitriol of "how can you be so stupid to propose this inane idea that will surely break every single game it's used in, don't you understand?"
Just support your arguments with more than ranting, and I will address your arguments. :)
because yet again, weve given you repeated examples, or offered too and you literally have either ignored them, or said they are dumb, without any real counterarguments but sure, lets go over given examples from yourself
1. the spell list : again, 1st level spells, even utility wise are very strong, 90% of the time, they are really quite useful in combat and out of it, to the point your still using a good number of them even at high level, hecc, I know of wizards who always use detect magic or identify because its so useful, not only that but i also know plenty of wizards who run a fog cloud build whenever they want to stealth, and or are fighting other casters because its a physical obstruction, I can go on, giving them access to this with unprepared, while cool, is going to make them even more versatile and ruin the fun for alot of other players
2. the surge table : again, while its a cool idea it just doesnt work, most of the effects of the wild magic table last only a minute and dont actually really harm the party, and for a fact yes i have played a wild magic sorcerer, I still do and its fun, but at the same time, this would also negate the coolness of a wild magic sorcerer, because now, everyone can do what you do, which in game design is not a route you want to go
3. you dont know as a player what you should prep : that...is moreso on the dm then on you, if they havent been giving you adequate information/hints, this way...is more forgiving, but breaks the game in other ways
and while i apologize for vitroil,of which is mostly because you keep saying I'm not giving examples, we have actually given you examples, multiple times, im leaving out even more examples cuz havariks doing a good job explaining them, but your tone is either very condescending or mocking at times, and you act as if you are brushing people off, instead of just saying "oh hey, im not brushing anyone off" you could actually take a moment to think and step away, then come back and actually consider what we are saying?
think about it like this : I just played a barbarian in a campaign, The dm let casters have more access to prepared spells and cast two leveled spells a turn, not taking into accout i felt useless in combat because of the two leveled spells thing, I felt useless out of combat, because the casters, could basically do anything i did, and while it was cool, I could step away from my pc, and play on my phone, because I knew for a fact, that I was not needed
this will essentially do the same, if you give more access to utility and support spells, even just first level ones, the casters end up just having all the answers, and its boring at the very least for everyone else.
if this works at your table, Great! as ive said before i have buffs to the casters in my group because I know my group and what they are okay with and like, but I would never try forcing my ideas on the base game, because I know my rules suit my table, not the regular game.
"We can make it, I've got a rope. Oh shit, my hands slipped! This is a long way down guys?" (Missed check). Should we let them die if no one was able to prepare feather fall or fly?
Yes.
If you're a DM and you don't want a chance for a player to fall to their death, don't make huge pits (or maybe even don't make rope-slipperiness checks). If you're a player and you don't want a chance for a player to fall to their death, prepare feather fall. It's so damn simple. If neither the DM nor the players opted out of the possibility of falling, then falling will make you go down, gain velocity, and perhaps even hit something at said velocity.
Actively choosing to have the spell and then having it pay off is leagues better than your version of "risk," which is, "oh no, you fell! -1 spell slot. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200."
I also find it funny that 7/8 of my questions, providing MANY reasons that your idea is not good, have gone unaddressed (and the one that was was done so very poorly). And yet "nobody has put any points forward." Come on, dude.
Edit: the questions are on post #16, in case you want to actually have a discussion.
Please try to be less offended by others' ideas if you want a discussion about specifics. Your tone seems condescending, which I'm guessing is intentional.
I was not offended by your ideas. My tone was not condescending, and even if it was condescending then you had no reason to guess it was intentional. You keep being offended by what others say, and then insist that they're offended by what you say. None of us are offended by what you say, except maybe because you keep telling us we can't have conversations/are getting mad at you/don't look at your perspective/don't give counterarguments.
I don't make all of the adventures my parties play. Sure I adapt them, but it's kind of impossible to avoid all chasms, mountain ledges, high bridges, or other falling hazards as a DM. My version of risk is that it's actually still fun for a party to have real death risks and be able to get out of them while increasing tension. So Feather fall is used (and my version also stated that this might require a Wild Magic roll or other consequence in addition to the used spell slot), that might mean the Caster runs out of spell slots earlier, takes some effect from Wild Magic, and has a lasting impact form this save.
Your version of risk is the idea that there should always be an easy way out. If there is a first level spell that you can cast at any time, with absolutely no critical thinking necessary, then there are no "real death risks," as you claimed there are. Plus, the Wild Magic table has many positive effects, and giving it to literally every caster would make Wild Magic Sorcerers the lamest subclass in the world. "Hey look guys, I can do the exact same thing anybody else can do, only I can't control when it happens as much! Aren't I so cool!"
Don't you think it's silly for a wizard to know the entire, incredibly complex contents of their 50 page spellbook at all times, without ever practicing to remember them?
As I stated above, no. I'll go back to chess as an example of what human minds can do. This book, Standard Chess Openings, is 768 pages long. Most Master level players would literally know the entire contents, plus many other standard endings, as well as how to direct the course of a game in a certain direction based on the openings and how they translate to middle game play.
As I also stated above, magic is not chess.
Don't you think it's silly to expect players to remember hundreds of spells and when they're most useful, off the top of their head?
A lot of professions, (law, medicine, history, mathematics, physics, engineering, etc) have similar levels of wrote knowledge in usable form within a mental toolbox. Details must of course be referenced for unusual situations, (equivalent of new or higher level spells), but for common problems information is known and accessible.
What? I'm genuinely quite confused as to what you are saying. If your suggestion is that one must be on par with a lawyer, doctor, historian, mathematician, physician, or engineer to play a spellcaster in Dungeons and Dragons, then I am not going to respond to this.
I think you made the mistake in thinking I said "character." I didn't say "character," I said "player." There's an important distinction.
Don't you think it's silly to restrict major creative choices in characters because you can't be bothered to think ahead?
This question says "you can't be bothered to ..." which is both condescending and irrelevant. No one can prep for all unknowns, and I'm not restricting, but hoping to open, both creative and useful, appropriate choices.
Thanks for calling me condescending (again). I really appreciate how not offended you are by others' ideas.
There, see, that was condescending. That's me being condescending. What I said here was not me being condescending.
No one being able to prep for all unknowns is perhaps the most fun part of unknowns. If you have the perfect spell for every situation, then the actual situation itself barely matters.
Don't you think it's silly for a Grave Cleric, sworn to fight against the forces of undeath, to have animate dead ready to go at any time?
No. They don't have to use those spells!
Or a Death Cleric, who killed their entire village to pursue the secrets of lichdom, to have mass cure wounds locked 'n' loaded just in case all their friends scrape their knees?
No. They don't have to use those spells!
But they could, and that doesn't make sense. Not much to say here, this was definitely my weakest point.
Don't you think it might be a little bit ridiculous to make all of the already most versatile classes be swiss army knives in comparison to everybody else?
Some of the spells that would be available could buff/help other party members do what they do in fun ways. So no. It's certainly not ridiculous, and if a party is working together, it should be able to help the party.
A caster being able to buff other party members does not mean that their abilities belong to other characters. If a caster can cast a spell for every situation, even if said spell is haste on another character, then the other players are likely to have less fun because they are not using their own abilities to solve problems.
Don't you find it just a slight bit humorous for spellcasting ability to have such a small bearing actual ability to cast spells?
Why would spellcasting ability "have such a small bearing?" The character can't cast more spells per rest than usual, would need need whatever they need (voice, somantic, material) to cast spells, and actually would have a consequence (Wild Magic roll) for casting an unprepped spell).
The amount of spells that you can prepare is based on spellcasting ability. Giving casters the ability to ignore how many spells they can prepare, even if they have a 1/50 chance of casting fireball on themselves when they do so, will make the casters' spellcasting abilities less influential on their ability to cast spells.
Don't you think it would be a bit strange to believe that limited spell slots, and nothing else, is enough to balance having 50-100 spells on hand at all times?
It's not 50-100 spells. I listed the non-combat level 1Wizard spells above and it's a grand total of 16, (of which the Wizard would still be able to prep about a 1/4 if they chose not to prep combat spells at level 1).
Other characters would also benefit, as anyone could use this feature if they also can cast spells, have a list and slots. So if we want to examine power balance, (if that is the term that applies, although we're talking about out of combat "power"), it would be both distributed and able to be used for all characters in the party as buffs, aides, saves, etc.
You certainly did not say that this rule only applied to cantrips and 1st level spells, and only for 9th level casters, when I made the post being replied to. Also, the Wizard spell list consists of about 32 cantrips and 38 first level spells, which fits neatly into the range of 50-100. Other characters would also benefit, as long as they aren't martials. As I already said, buffing other characters makes the buffer feel much more useful than the buffee.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I think spellcasters should be able to cast any spell they have learned, provided that they have the required spell components and have not depleted their spell slots. The available spell slots, or if you want to call it mana, are restored after a long rest. The concept of memorized spells is a mechanic that is unfun and boring to me, more of a frustration than fun gameplay.
I think spellcasters should be able to cast any spell they have learned, provided that they have the required spell components and have not depleted their spell slots. The available spell slots, or if you want to call it mana, are restored after a long rest. The concept of memorized spells is a mechanic that is unfun and boring to me, more of a frustration than fun gameplay.
1. Check the date before you post to a thread so you don't alert people who might want to be done with the topic.
2. No.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
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Characters without spellcasting won't benefit, and they're already weaker in 5th edition than casters are; simply having a spellcasting feature already adds a huge amount of versatility to a character, and there are a lot of powerful spells. This is why spellcasters are limited in their choices.
But this change would overwhelmingly benefit the Wizard, because they have easily the largest spell list of any class in the game, and over time a wizard can know literally every spell on their class list (most won't, but they'll still know a huge number of spells). They can already cast literally every ritual spell that they know, what you're proposing will extend this to every other spell, it's a massive boost to an already extremely versatile class, it will unbalance the game even further in favour of full casters and casters in general.
And it will make the game less fun because it massively reduces the challenge of the game; instead of facing challenges and coming up with inventive solutions, the Wizard just needs to scroll through their spellbook for the spell that solves whatever it is they're faced with. That's going to be incredibly boring for everyone else to play.
I'm currently playing a fifth level Order of Scribes Wizard in a Strixhaven campaign, I've mostly chosen only spells that I find funny, with no consideration at all for combat performance or what spells will be the most useful (in fact I've specifically avoided some of the most useful spells in the game). And I still already have spells that I can use to solve most situations I face, moreso than any other player in the campaign, but at least I still need to be a bit creative in how I do it (because not every spell is a perfect fit).
There is no need for me to have more options. I don't want them, and no-one else in the campaign would want me to have them. Them also getting more flexibility wouldn't fix the balance issue, because I'd still gain more.
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I think you may not have read or maybe have discounted the part where I went through the spells I've actually listed, many of which do allow a caster to Buff another character or change the area (like Fog Cloud) in ways that can affect another character. Rituals are great, but they can't cast Grease as a ritual, and other casting classes/magic users don't get the same benefit with as many Ritual spells. This idea isn't just about Wizards.
Here is a proposal and a list of spells this would include, and (relevant to the character you reference) wouldn't take effect until level 9.
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After level 7 all classes who use any magic do not need to prep cantrips. After level 9 all classes do not need to prep level 1 spells (but are still limited by spell slots in how they use them).
If a characters casts an unprepped cantrip or spell they must roll on the Wild Magic Table for an effect.
In combat a character is also limited by a normal action economy, so would likely not risk the Wild Magic roll in battle to use an unprepped level 1 spell unless they're chaotic or desperate!
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I'm looking at the spells list for level 1 Wizard spells. Here is a list.
Alarm, Cause Fear, Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, Distort Value, Feather Fall, Floating Disk, Fog Cloud, Grease, Identify, Illusory Script, Jump, Longstrider, Silent Image, Unseen Servant
So these are going to break the game? (Remember about 1/4 of them could be prepped anyway by level 9).
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Although this began about Wizards, I'm not trying to improve Wizards. A lot of these (Jump, Longstrider, Feather Fall, Fog Cloud, Alarm) can be used to directly apply to another character and increase their abilities.
I started thinking about this in relation to a Druid who never cast a lot of the fun low level Druid spells.
I love that you prep spells that are just fun! This also would allow you to just use spells that are fun, and if they're not prepped, have a consequence.
Absolutely; because now your Wizard can instantly set an alarm, frighten or charm a target, understand all languages, disguise themselves, cheat merchants, be immune to falling, carry an extra 500 lbs, obscure an area, knock enemies prone, identify magic items, hide messages, jump further, run faster, create illusions or have a servant do things for them, without having to think about what spells to prepare whatsoever.
If you want to charm an NPC you no longer have to worry about how you do it, you just do it. Likewise with fear, or when you want to sneak somewhere in disguise, or you need to create distractions, or encounter obstacles like chasms, or need to run away and so-on and so-on. The Wizard doesn't need to think about what they need only what they want.
And this is only at first level, at 3rd-level you get another few dozen 2nd-level spells you could know, and a few more at 5th-level (3rd-level spells) and so-on. It is a huge force multiplier and is giving Wizards enormously more flexibility than they already have. Part of the fun of playing a Wizard is planning what spells you are going to prepare; it rewards gaining information about what you might face, or planning what you're going to do. If you know you're going to be trying to sneak in somewhere you can change your prepared spells to be better at infiltration and/or social stealth.
This change would eliminate the need for any of that, it will reduce every situation down to "I just cast the spell that solves this exact problem". Just take a look at how many features other classes have; the Wizard effectively has dozens of times that many already, and this will only multiply it further.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
but also
if your talking about homebrewing a system in, you have to think about how it can, and will be broken, so you can ensure it wont be, thats how game development goes, just because you say "hey anyone can break anything" doesnt mean its a good idea to implement a horrible idea that will break the game even further
Havarrik is right in all his lasts couple of posts, it doesnt matter if they have to roll a wild magic surge, with that level of versatility in the game, a wizard or any casters going to take it, and heck some of the first level spells, are the strongest and most versatile spells in the game
So combative. I've not blown anything off! I'm proposing an idea and looking for specific and example driven feedback. Most of your posts, and a few others, are filed with the usual vitriol of "how can you be so stupid to propose this inane idea that will surely break every single game it's used in, don't you understand?"
Just support your arguments with more than ranting, and I will address your arguments. :)
Tell me, have you ever played as a Wizard? Or DM'ed for one?
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So they can instantly do some of these things regardless, right, if these are prepped? They can also use some as rituals. Which has a time delay component.
Charm has consequences of its own. So you still have to worry about it, and you still have a slot expended plus the Wild Magic. This is not always a small detail, BTW. Have you played a Wild Magic Sorcerer before? I have, and got shrunk to 2'2" through the Wild Magic table rolls, damaged myself and half my party with a fireball during combat, and a few other choice effects.
I get that there are more options available. That is the point. My players are also very conscious of their spell slot economy as with a Wizard only getting to replenish on a long rest, if there are 2-3 combats in a day, they could struggle if they're using them as they want throughout the role play and exploration.
I'm only proposing this for first level spells at level 9, so it's admittedly a niche idea to get more creative use of odd and fun spells at lower levels into game when the stakes are low. As stated, I was originally thinking more about a Druid I know rather than a Wizard.
I love to situationally prepare, but I don't always have a clue where the party is going as a player, and my players get thrown curveballs all of the time. So I could foreshadow more, but that is a bit boring as well, if it means spelling everything out that is about to happen.
Aside from the Wizard, I feel like this is an idea to help magic users utilize spells they don't usually prepare, to get them a chance to see how interesting they can be if available.
No need to respond further. I get where the community of 4-5 responding here are concerning this idea. If I do it I'll report back on the outcomes.
Sure, add this rule to your games, and tell us how overpowered the party Wizard is, and how useless the Fighter and Monk are compared to them.
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But only if they prepare them or have the necessary ritual casting features and time, which is a major component of how they're balanced. Just because any Wizard could learn, prepare and cast a spell isn't a good reason why every Wizard should be able to cast it whenever they like. It's the same reason why Battle Masters don't know every manoeuvre (which would arguably have fewer balance issues).
Most Surge results aren't actually that bad out of combat; even exploding in a fireball only requires your party to stand clear and be ready to heal you just in case of the 1 in 50 chance of rolling that result. Almost everything else wears off after around a minute, and most results even that detrimental, while a lot of them are actually significant boosts.
The best way to get players to prepare different spells is to provide hints, or opportunities to learn about, what they might be about to face.
For example, if a party knows they're going to need to get into a person's mansion then they can prepare for infiltration and/or social stealth by preparing spells like charm person or disguise self, but a party that ignores your hints and doesn't even try to plan should be punished mercilessly for half-assing everything. 😝
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
because yet again, weve given you repeated examples, or offered too and you literally have either ignored them, or said they are dumb, without any real counterarguments but sure, lets go over given examples from yourself
1. the spell list : again, 1st level spells, even utility wise are very strong, 90% of the time, they are really quite useful in combat and out of it, to the point your still using a good number of them even at high level, hecc, I know of wizards who always use detect magic or identify because its so useful, not only that but i also know plenty of wizards who run a fog cloud build whenever they want to stealth, and or are fighting other casters because its a physical obstruction, I can go on, giving them access to this with unprepared, while cool, is going to make them even more versatile and ruin the fun for alot of other players
2. the surge table : again, while its a cool idea it just doesnt work, most of the effects of the wild magic table last only a minute and dont actually really harm the party, and for a fact yes i have played a wild magic sorcerer, I still do and its fun, but at the same time, this would also negate the coolness of a wild magic sorcerer, because now, everyone can do what you do, which in game design is not a route you want to go
3. you dont know as a player what you should prep : that...is moreso on the dm then on you, if they havent been giving you adequate information/hints, this way...is more forgiving, but breaks the game in other ways
and while i apologize for vitroil,of which is mostly because you keep saying I'm not giving examples, we have actually given you examples, multiple times, im leaving out even more examples cuz havariks doing a good job explaining them, but your tone is either very condescending or mocking at times, and you act as if you are brushing people off, instead of just saying "oh hey, im not brushing anyone off" you could actually take a moment to think and step away, then come back and actually consider what we are saying?
think about it like this : I just played a barbarian in a campaign, The dm let casters have more access to prepared spells and cast two leveled spells a turn, not taking into accout i felt useless in combat because of the two leveled spells thing, I felt useless out of combat, because the casters, could basically do anything i did, and while it was cool, I could step away from my pc, and play on my phone, because I knew for a fact, that I was not needed
this will essentially do the same, if you give more access to utility and support spells, even just first level ones, the casters end up just having all the answers, and its boring at the very least for everyone else.
if this works at your table, Great! as ive said before i have buffs to the casters in my group because I know my group and what they are okay with and like, but I would never try forcing my ideas on the base game, because I know my rules suit my table, not the regular game.
I was not offended by your ideas. My tone was not condescending, and even if it was condescending then you had no reason to guess it was intentional. You keep being offended by what others say, and then insist that they're offended by what you say. None of us are offended by what you say, except maybe because you keep telling us we can't have conversations/are getting mad at you/don't look at your perspective/don't give counterarguments.
Your version of risk is the idea that there should always be an easy way out. If there is a first level spell that you can cast at any time, with absolutely no critical thinking necessary, then there are no "real death risks," as you claimed there are. Plus, the Wild Magic table has many positive effects, and giving it to literally every caster would make Wild Magic Sorcerers the lamest subclass in the world. "Hey look guys, I can do the exact same thing anybody else can do, only I can't control when it happens as much! Aren't I so cool!"
As I also stated above, magic is not chess.
What? I'm genuinely quite confused as to what you are saying. If your suggestion is that one must be on par with a lawyer, doctor, historian, mathematician, physician, or engineer to play a spellcaster in Dungeons and Dragons, then I am not going to respond to this.
I think you made the mistake in thinking I said "character." I didn't say "character," I said "player." There's an important distinction.
Thanks for calling me condescending (again). I really appreciate how not offended you are by others' ideas.
There, see, that was condescending. That's me being condescending. What I said here was not me being condescending.
No one being able to prep for all unknowns is perhaps the most fun part of unknowns. If you have the perfect spell for every situation, then the actual situation itself barely matters.
But they could, and that doesn't make sense. Not much to say here, this was definitely my weakest point.
A caster being able to buff other party members does not mean that their abilities belong to other characters. If a caster can cast a spell for every situation, even if said spell is haste on another character, then the other players are likely to have less fun because they are not using their own abilities to solve problems.
The amount of spells that you can prepare is based on spellcasting ability. Giving casters the ability to ignore how many spells they can prepare, even if they have a 1/50 chance of casting fireball on themselves when they do so, will make the casters' spellcasting abilities less influential on their ability to cast spells.
You certainly did not say that this rule only applied to cantrips and 1st level spells, and only for 9th level casters, when I made the post being replied to. Also, the Wizard spell list consists of about 32 cantrips and 38 first level spells, which fits neatly into the range of 50-100. Other characters would also benefit, as long as they aren't martials. As I already said, buffing other characters makes the buffer feel much more useful than the buffee.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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I think spellcasters should be able to cast any spell they have learned, provided that they have the required spell components and have not depleted their spell slots. The available spell slots, or if you want to call it mana, are restored after a long rest. The concept of memorized spells is a mechanic that is unfun and boring to me, more of a frustration than fun gameplay.
1. Check the date before you post to a thread so you don't alert people who might want to be done with the topic.
2. No.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)