Quote from Kerrec >>

Your character has no reason to know the spider is unconscious...

It's not like a spider rolls on it's back or falls prone.

The unconscious condition is that the creature drops whatever it is holding and falls prone.

He might be confused whether the spider is unconscious or dead, but he would notice it wasn't active anymore.

 I disagree. Not enough time passes between turns for that to be evident. 

6 seconds for everyone in the initiative order to act. Between Sarith shooting it, the poison taking effect and Xilyrah acting would be a matter of seconds. 

If the poison is slow enough that the effect takes a moment, would a crossbow bolt now still wake it up? Or would the spider take hits, and then the poison takes effect? If the spider isn’t prone, is it still unconscious (for advantage/disadvantage)?

Pointing out that trying to reason what is “realistic” can get confusing quickly... I’m fine with with the NPC getting “trigger happy”. Buppido definitely hit (which is why I was cussing internally about losing the auto-critical damage), and I think it was 4 damage.

It would still be unconscious.  It would just be very difficult to tell.

Keep in mind, at a table the con check would be done behind a screen. 

Quote from Kerrec >>

 

Do you all want to continue with posts #576 to #578 as is, or edit them?

 I'll leave post # 578 as is (Jimjar runs and makes the jump).

Tozer's combat rolls have rendered him useless to the party. Sorry, team.

@ Kerrec, looks like Narstin and Tozer will be teaming up next round in an effort to escape with the unconscious Derendil. Just giving you some time to think through the rather interesting dynamics of two dwarves leaping into a body of water with an unconscious monster in tow. :)

Quote from Kerrec >>

Quote from boldaslove1970 >>

 I did. Since the attack hadn't been officially logged (yet) and I'd missed the post in this thread regarding the spider being unconscious (until attacked) I updated my post.

And I'm playing Buppido with the awareness that he's evil, but he was described as "surprisingly gregarious and talkative, demonstrating a keen mind and a disarming manner," so the perceived altruism is more about creating a multi-faceted character with an agenda. I'm just trying to add some dimension to him and possibly create more chaos ultimately by throwing everyone off guard.

 

Withholding your attack is a smart play, but it's metagaming.  Your character has no reason to know the spider is unconscious.  Even if aware the bolt hit, there's no way she would know the spider failed to resist the poison by that much.  

It's not like a spider rolls on it's back or falls prone.  It would maybe lower its torso a bit onto the webs, if that.  If you all insist there should be some way to tell, then someone in the group can roll a DC 20 (Hard) Nature check with Help (here in OOC is fine).

Do you all want to continue with posts #576 to #578 as is, or edit them?

As for Buppido, hanging back works because jumping into the unknown is riskier than staying behind, given the current circumstances.  

 I'll leave it at the DM's discretion if I should revert back to Buppido's original action. If so, it was successful and it was 8 piercing damage. Let me know what you'd like me to do.

Xilyrah didn't want to step in the muck so she tried to jump (and failed).

Ok, moves updated.  Lets move on.

For those that take up Jimjar's wager (doing backflips on the way down), here's how it's going to work:  You will roll a DC 10 Acrobatics check.  If you are proficient in Acrobatics, then you can do so with Advantage.  If you fail, you flop and fall to zero HP (but stable, no death saves.)  However, if you are wearing armor and are unconscious, you will sink.

For Tozer and Narstin, who I hope won't be trying to do backflips AND carry Derendil, they will roll acrobatics checks (one each) with the following results:

• DC 5: You and Derendil flop.  You fall unconscious at zero HP (but you're stable).  If you're wearing armor, you sink.  Derendil suffers 2 death save failures.
• DC 10: You don't flop, but Derendil does.  Derendil suffers 2 death save failure.
• DC 15: You don't flop, but Derendil doesn't land well. Derendil suffers 1 death save failure. 
• DC 20: You don't flop and neither does Derendil.
• Nat 20 or DC 25: No one flops, regardless of what the other rolls.

Whoever rolls worse takes precedence to determine what happens to Derendil, unless a Natural 20 or a 25 (if possible?) is rolled by the other.

Whoever has already jumped will skip this turn.  We'll regroup once everyone jumps.

Instead of slamming Derendil into the water, maybe tie a rope and lower him to someone already in the water? Will take longer, but if this spider is put down, we can probably afford a little more time. Do the same with Ferriman.

Or at the least, get Ferriman and Derendil stabilized before leaping off the ledge.

Is Buppido's turn reverting back to the damage with the crossbow or the edited movement where he only goes down the stairs?

Never mind.

Quote from Quasimodal >>

Instead of slamming Derendil into the water, maybe tie a rope and lower him to someone already in the water? Will take longer, but if this spider is put down, we can probably afford a little more time. Do the same with Ferriman.

Or at the least, get Ferriman and Derendil stabilized before leaping off the ledge.

More time on this landing is risky. Just a few thoughts:

• We haven't done much damage to the spider yet.
• Two more spiders may be coming our way.
• Tying off a rope and lowering two creatures would take several rounds.
• One more hit and Tozer is likely dead.

I vote for Narstin and Tozer making the jump with Derendil, and another player (or NPC) can make the jump with Ferriman.

Those are tough DCs, and it is effectively at disadvantage (lower of the two rolls). Those extra failed death saves will probably kill them.

Maybe put down two ropes, and have the two people carrying Derrendil slide down the ropes instead of jumping? Anything to improve the DC or improve the odds of survival.

At least get them stabilized before the jump, if that makes a difference.

Edit: The water has an angry quaggoth and a grey ooze, so jumping off the ledge as soon as possible may not be safe either.

When several of the other players left I asked what you all thought of the campaign and almost all of you mentioned the cast of NPC's was a bit much.  And it is.

In my table top game, all the NPC's survived and were convinced to stay together as a group (lots of good rolling, to my dismay).  In order to not trivialize the random encounters, I had to "enforce" a smaller sized scouting party leading the pack, consisting of the PC's.  I'd rather not go that route in this campaign, if I have a choice (the dice will still decide if you take the story that way.)

Let me be clear that Valthana and Ferriman are going to exit the story at some point, hopefully earlier than later.  And the other NPC's are going to as well, depending on what PC's make what efforts to connect with the NPC's.

As the DM, I'm OK with having a cost in lives for the escape to happen.  I'm also pretty sure the module intends it that way, or else Velkinvelve wouldn't be so loaded with high level NPC's.

If you are not willing to take the risks jumping 80 feet into water with an unconscious beast that is at the top end of the medium size bracket, then use the tools at your disposal.  Some suggested ropes... that would work.

In case there is any confusion, I'm going to argue and whine about the best course of action.

But absolutely do what you think would be the most fun and in-character, even if it is the exact opposite of what I'm suggesting.

Thank you for the encouragement.  I think I will roll creature saves in Roll20 to remove the temptation.  :)

Combat ends.  Everyone involved in the combat get 130 xp

This pushes Tozer to level 2.

OK, another standard operating procedure I want to enforce...

If the group is going to make skill checks to do something, the group can only do the skill check once, with help.  For example, if you want to search a room for loot, check a door for traps, unlock a locked door, roll medicine to stabilize an ally, etc... you get to roll once.  Take the time it takes to plan in OOC who will do it, to take advantage of skills.

Ferriman is stabilized... only two people rolled, so same as 1 check + help.  But going forward, keep this in mind.

As a player, I have no problem with NPCs dying for our escape.  Sadly my character i built disagrees if there's anything at all he can do about it :P

Quote from Kerrec >>

OK, another standard operating procedure I want to enforce...

If the group is going to make skill checks to do something, the group can only do the skill check once, with help.  For example, if you want to search a room for loot, check a door for traps, unlock a locked door, roll medicine to stabilize an ally, etc... you get to roll once.  Take the time it takes to plan in OOC who will do it, to take advantage of skills.

Ferriman is stabilized... only two people rolled, so same as 1 check + help.  But going forward, keep this in mind.

 Understood.

Quote from VanderLegion >>

As a player, I have no problem with NPCs dying for our escape.  Sadly my character i built disagrees if there's anything at all he can do about it :P

 So, considering the difficulty classes set by the DM, are you willing to have Narstin join with Tozer in jumping with Derendil and creating an epic three-man cannonball? Or do you prefer the lower-him-by-rope method? 

By the way, which players/NPC's have rope in their possession? Tozer does not.

Beegred grabbed one coil in post #496.  Narstin grabbed a coil in post #497.  Xilyrah grabbed a coil in post #498.  Valthana grabbed a coil in post #516.

Please update your equipment!  Would have been so much easier to find it in your character sheets instead of searching the thread.

Quote from Jack_Joke >>

Quote from Kerrec >>

OK, another standard operating procedure I want to enforce...

If the group is going to make skill checks to do something, the group can only do the skill check once, with help.  For example, if you want to search a room for loot, check a door for traps, unlock a locked door, roll medicine to stabilize an ally, etc... you get to roll once.  Take the time it takes to plan in OOC who will do it, to take advantage of skills.

Ferriman is stabilized... only two people rolled, so same as 1 check + help.  But going forward, keep this in mind.

 Understood.

Quote from VanderLegion >>

As a player, I have no problem with NPCs dying for our escape.  Sadly my character i built disagrees if there's anything at all he can do about it :P

 So, considering the difficulty classes set by the DM, are you willing to have Narstin join with Tozer in jumping with Derendil and creating an epic three-man cannonball? Or do you prefer the lower-him-by-rope method? 

By the way, which players/NPC's have rope in their possession? Tozer does not.

Question for DM since I'm not sure: How do death saves work once a creature has been stabilized?  IIRC Derendil was at 1 failure, 1 success before I stabilized him.  Do those still apply if he takes more failed saves?  With 1 failed save already, he has fairly high odds of simply dying if he gest 2 more from jumping into the water.

Narstin in general would prefer the lower-by-rope method