Okay - it's driving me nuts. I believe that the way it's described in Tasha's works like this. (I've been getting doubted, told I'm wrong and sometimes even agreed with.) *5th level Ranger with a Primal Beast of the Land Start of Turn Ranger Moves 10' (of 30) Companion moves 20' (of 40) Ranger uses Bonus Action to command Companion to take an another Action (defined as "one in its stat block or some other action" - questions below) -- since the Companion moved 20', using Maul triggers the Charge bonus effect Ranger uses one of two attacks. Ranger sacrifices 2nd attack action to command the Companion to take the Attack action. Ranger uses remainder of their movement. Companion uses remainder of their movement. End of Turn.
So - (and I will state now that I overthink just about everything. Dammit brain.) 1) That action can be one in its stat block or some other action. There is only one action in the pet's stat block, Maul. "Some Other Action" would be the same Actions in Combat that are available to PCs - Attack, Cast a Spell, Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Grapple, Help, Hide, Improvise, Ready, Search, Shove, Use an Object, right? Except where obviously not viable (Spellcasting...). Would that be the right list for "Some Other Action"?
2) Is there a restriction I cannot find that says a Companion/Pet/Beast cannot take more than 1 Attack Action in a turn without benefit of Extra Attack, Action Surge, Haste or the like? And, in this specific case, wouldn't "Primal Companion feature" be counted as one of those?
3) If the Companion Moves & Attacks (when the Ranger uses 1BA), the Companion can continue to use it's Movement on it's own, Right? 4) If the Companion Moves & Attacks (when the Ranger uses 1BA), the Ranger can sacrifice one of her Attacks to command it to Attack the same target? 5) If the Companion Moves & Attacks (when the Ranger uses 1BA), the Companion can continue to use it's Movement on it's own and then the Ranger can sacrifice one of their Attacks to command the beast to take the Attack action?
6) No where does it list how long it takes to summon a different primal beast. Is it left to the DM interpretation or is there documentation somewhere about that? *Because 1A and 1-10 minutes is a big deal in the middle of a fight when you don't have a spell slot available, nor 1 minute to wait.*
7) If there's anywhere in the turn of events that is incorrect, that'd be a great place to start.
8) Are any of the answers below documented in any way, or strickly your (the responder) interpretation. I am okay with it, just please list it as such.
9) Why doesn't the Beyond character sheet automatically add the attack rolls for the Companion? Grr!
10) Interesting (to me) point - When the Ranger Sacrifices an Attack, it seems the Companion must use that Granted attack immediately.
Allow me to close with "I wish someone would go and edit the rules for pets, familiars and companions - taking all the variations of the same abilities and using the same phrases and keywords for each. Then add in the unique features.
Thanks. Appreciate you making it this far. Now, help a buddy / Random Guy on Internet out!! :)
The way I read this, is that the primal companion can move and take the Dodge action, unless the ranger uses a bonus action to have it take a different action. The ranger can also forego its attack to allow the companion to attack instead.
Yes, "other actions" are all the usual ones that players and NPCs can do.
The companion does not have a specific restriction, rather creatures only having 1 action is a general rule and neither the companion nor ranger have a feature that changes that. So beast has 1 action.
Yes. The beast can break up its movement like any other PC/creature.
Because of the answer to Q2, the beast only has 1 action to attack with. At level 11, it can make 2 attacks with 1 action (but still is either a BA or attack from you, not both).
See Q4. At level 11, it can move between attacks.
"When you finish a long rest, you can summon a different primal beast." It is instantaneous but must be done immediately after rest (same time spell slots recover).
Other than that the beast only has 1 action, all good.
All my answers are RAW, so far. Answer 10 is also RAW (9 isn't about rules, so N/A).
This is in the works. Various dice rolling features are in development NOW, and this should (barring unforseen complications) be part of that development cycle.
Yes, but since it moves on your turn, just move it before you sacrifice the attack. Since creatures can break up attacks, the ranger can even attack, have the beast move, then sacrifice their second attack.
the ranger uses a bonus action to have it take a different action.
Can that action be an Attack?
Technically, yes. But it's attack options other than maul are rather limited. It could unarmed strike, or possibly use an attack it has been granted by a spell or item (though those are usually special actions, which it can also do if ordered with BA but not with your attack).
But is the beast making 2 attacks? or is the ranger using the beast to make the attack? I think that's my sticking point with all this. The Ranger DOES seem to have an ability that breaks the 1 action rule (well, Primal Companion). the only time the Beast would be using it's one action is if the ranger is incapacitated (Freeeeeddooooom!) or if left to it's own devices (move and 1 Action was Dodge).
I can't copy/paste from Tasha's because it's not in the SRD. I'm convinced that it's the Ranger taking the actions - the pet is just a puppet
But is the beast making 2 attacks? or is the ranger using the beast to make the attack? I think that's my sticking point with all this. The Ranger DOES seem to have an ability that breaks the 1 action rule (well, Primal Companion). the only time the Beast would be using it's one action is if the ranger is incapacitated (Freeeeeddooooom!) or if left to it's own devices (move and 1 Action was Dodge).
I can't copy/paste from Tasha's because it's not in the SRD. I'm convinced that it's the Ranger taking the actions - the pet is just a puppet
At level 5, 1 attack with 1 attack action. At level 11, 2 attacks with 1 attack action.
Don't worry about quoting from books, short of posting whole subclasses, you're fine:
You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action.
And from the PHB:
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action.
The beast can take 1 action. It takes the attack action. It is out of actions.
The fact that you can command it with a bonus action is a distinct upgrade. Previously they had to sacrifice an attack and could only command it to attack.
At level 11, you can command it to make 2 attacks with your bonus action in addition to your own 2 attacks.
Under the description of Primal Companions in TCoE:
"..It can move and use its reaction on its own, but the only action it takes is the Dodge action.."
None of your actions need to be spent in order for the companion to do these things, so these can be done at no cost to your personal action economy. Continued:
"..but the only action it takes is the Dodge action unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action."
This means a few things, any action that exists on the Beast's stat block, or any action such as dash, Dodge, disengage, etc. They also write these rules to last long term, so although the only Actions on these 3 Primal Companions' stat blocks are attacks, they anticipate the creation of official or homebrew Primal Companions. Future Primal Companions may provide Action Abilities that aren't necessarily attack actions, although these 3 do not have any. And finally:
"You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action."
This is simply to give you flexibility, not to give your companion extra attacks. Forcing you to burn your bonus action every turn may be fine for some players, but other players use their bonus actions for certain spells or actions or abilities. If you want to cast Zephyr Strike, or maybe a multiclasser wants to use Healing Word or Bonus Action Hide, you might be willing to "sacrifice" one of your attacks INSTEAD of being bound the the bonus action. Definitely not in addition to.
Also, you can add your own custom actions to your character sheets by clicking the "Manage Custom" text in the upper right hand portion of your actions page on your character sheet ;).
You can make these whatever you want them to be, attack actions, bonus actions, reactions, weapon or unarmed or spell with customized damage and modifiers and proficiencies.
In combat, the beast acts during your turn. It can move and use its reaction on its own, but the only action it takes is the Dodge action, unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action. You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action. If you are incapacitated, the beast can take any action of its choice, not just Dodge.
1st Q: Does it take My Action, Bonus action, Free action or Move action to make the beast use it's Move action?
2nd Q: If I choose a beast form that has hands (say an ape), can it use tools like thieves' tools(I know it's not proficient with them. But that just means that it would not add the bonus to the roll)?
3rd Q: If I'm a Halflling or any other Small creature, can I mount the beast of the land/sea(I'm small and it's medium and I realy want to ride a "War Bear" in to battle)?
4th Q: Does the DM decide how the beast moves and do I only command it to use it's Actions (I think it's abvious, but there is no "RAW"rule for controling the beast other then commanding it's Actions)?
5th Q: Is commanding the beast Verbal, Visual or Telepathic?
6th Q: If I command it to attack with my Attack action and I don't issue any actions for it with my Bonus action, does the beast take Dodge as it's action? Ex. I'm level a 4 ranger, take the attack action myself and sacrifice my only attack to command my beast to use the attack action. Then I use my bonus action to cast Shillelagh.
In combat, the beast acts during your turn. It can move and use its reaction on its own, but the only action it takes is the Dodge action, unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action. You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action. If you are incapacitated, the beast can take any action of its choice, not just Dodge.
1st Q: Does it take My Action, Bonus action, Free action or Move action to make the beast use it's Move action?
1st A: None of the above. It has it's own move independent of you. And it can take the Dodge Action independent of you. So you lose no resource. You can, however, give up your Bonus Action to have it take an action (Attack, Disengage, etc) or you can give up one of your attacks when you take the Attack Action to have it take the Attack Action.
2nd Q: If I choose a beast form that has hands (say an ape), can it use tools like thieves' tools(I know it's not proficient with them. But that just means that it would not add the bonus to the roll)?
2nd A: I would say, up to the DM. It does have an INT of 8, but I would probably say no if I were DM, unless a convincing case is made.
3rd Q: If I'm a Halflling or any other Small creature, can I mount the beast of the land/sea(I'm small and it's medium and I realy want to ride a "War Bear" in to battle)?
3rd A: Yes.
4th Q: Does the DM decide how the beast moves and do I only command it to use it's Actions (I think it's abvious, but there is no "RAW"rule for controling the beast other then commanding it's Actions)?
4th A: It's your companion, you control it's movement and actions.
5th Q: Is commanding the beast Verbal, Visual or Telepathic?
5th A: I would say both verbal and visual. Not telepathic. If it was telepathic it would say so. It does say you can use a Bonus Action to "command it" so at least verbal or visual. Check with your DM.
6th Q: If I command it to attack with my Attack action and I don't issue any actions for it with my Bonus action, does the beast take Dodge as it's action? Ex. I'm level a 4 ranger, take the attack action myself and sacrifice my only attack to command my beast to use the attack action. Then I use my bonus action to cast Shillelagh.
6th A: If you give up an attack as part of your Attack Action then your beast uses the Attack Action to attack. That is the only option for it in that case. If you use your Bonus Action to command it, it can take any of the standard actions in combat. You cannot do both, it's one or the other as the companion has only 1 action to use. If you do nothing, it takes the Dodge action.
2nd Q: If I choose a beast form that has hands (say an ape), can it use tools like thieves' tools(I know it's not proficient with them. But that just means that it would not add the bonus to the roll)?
It does add your proficiency bonus to the roll. Primal Companions add your proficiency bonus to all ability checks they make.
There are no valid Companion forms with thumbs, but many have some way to manipulate tools - an octopus might have the easiest time, but an otter or pygmy elephant could manipulate a tool more than not at all for sure, just by way of example. Ultimately, it's your DM's call just how adroit your companion is with tools.
2nd Q: If I choose a beast form that has hands (say an ape), can it use tools like thieves' tools(I know it's not proficient with them. But that just means that it would not add the bonus to the roll)?
It does add your proficiency bonus to the roll. Primal Companions add your proficiency bonus to all ability checks they make.
There are no valid Companion forms with thumbs, but many have some way to manipulate tools - an octopus might have the easiest time, but an otter or pygmy elephant could manipulate a tool more than not at all for sure, just by way of example. Ultimately, it's your DM's call just how adroit your companion is with tools.
Are you referring to"Primal Bond.You can add your proficiency bonus to any ability check or saving throw that the beast makes."? Ok, I guess that would apply if I hand an Ape some theives' tools and it needs to make an ability check.
"You magically summon a primal beast, which draws strength from your bond with nature. The beast is friendly to you and your companions and obeys your commands. Choose its stat block—Beast of the Land, Beast of the Sea, or Beast of the Sky—which uses your proficiency bonus (PB) in several places. You also determine the kind of animal the beast is, choosing a kind appropriate for the stat block. Whatever kind you choose, the beast bears primal markings, indicating its mystical origin."
I thought that the beast don't get any other proficencies other than those in the stat block marked "PB". Ex. beast of the lands - Maul. Melee Weapon Attack: your spell attack modifier to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d8 + 2 + PB slashing damage.
6th Q: If I command it to attack with my Attack action and I don't issue any actions for it with my Bonus action, does the beast take Dodge as it's action? Ex. I'm level a 4 ranger, take the attack action myself and sacrifice my only attack to command my beast to use the attack action. Then I use my bonus action to cast Shillelagh.
6th A: If you give up an attack as part of your Attack Action then your beast uses the Attack Action to attack. That is the only option for it in that case. If you use your Bonus Action to command it, it can take any of the standard actions in combat. You cannot do both, it's one or the other as the companion has only 1 action to use. If you do nothing, it takes the Dodge action.
Good point. I didn't realize that the beast accualy only has one Action and the ability to sacifice an Attack does not say "even if the beast has taken an action already" or somthing like that. But I think that the wording is a little missleading. "You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the attack action to command the beast to take the attack action.". I thought that meant that the beast gets to take the attack action as both my bonus and during my Attack action.
I think most people have read this ability in a way that makes this an amazing amount of attack at level 11 with "Bestial Fury". Ex. use my bonus action to command beast to attack(beast gets two attacks), use my attack action to sacrifice one of my attacks to command beast to attack(beast gets two attacks and I get one) = beast 4 attacks + my attack.
Even if I only get to attack with the beast once per turn then twice at 11th level and i can attack on my own, I still think this i better than the companion that is in the PHB.
2nd Q: If I choose a beast form that has hands (say an ape), can it use tools like thieves' tools(I know it's not proficient with them. But that just means that it would not add the bonus to the roll)?
It does add your proficiency bonus to the roll. Primal Companions add your proficiency bonus to all ability checks they make.
There are no valid Companion forms with thumbs, but many have some way to manipulate tools - an octopus might have the easiest time, but an otter or pygmy elephant could manipulate a tool more than not at all for sure, just by way of example. Ultimately, it's your DM's call just how adroit your companion is with tools.
Are you referring to"Primal Bond.You can add your proficiency bonus to any ability check or saving throw that the beast makes."? Ok, I guess that would apply if I hand an Ape some theives' tools and it needs to make an ability check.
Yes.
"You magically summon a primal beast, which draws strength from your bond with nature. The beast is friendly to you and your companions and obeys your commands. Choose its stat block—Beast of the Land, Beast of the Sea, or Beast of the Sky—which uses your proficiency bonus (PB) in several places. You also determine the kind of animal the beast is, choosing a kind appropriate for the stat block. Whatever kind you choose, the beast bears primal markings, indicating its mystical origin."
I thought that the beast don't get any other proficencies other than those in the stat block marked "PB". Ex. beast of the lands - Maul. Melee Weapon Attack: your spell attack modifier to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d8 + 2 + PB slashing damage.
Your companion RAW doesn't get any proficiencies beyond baseline, per se. It adds your proficiency bonus to all ability checks and saving throws, and you're told how its special attack works. That means your DM is inherently justified in limiting your companion when interacting with a rule that requires having proficiency, like the crafting rules - a companion has no proficiencies and gets a bonus from you on a lot of things, instead of actually having the proficiencies. It also *understands* all of your languages, which doesn't necessarily imply *proficiency* - I've had at least one DM so far rule that my companion wasn't literate, as an example of how the distinction can matter.
Baseline: All creatures are proficient in making an Unarmed Strike. As it's impossible to determine the PB of the companion - it has neither a CR nor a level - it should theoretically have the baseline PB all creatures have, +2. A Beast of the Land, like all creatures, can make an Unarmed Strike. Assuming its PB is +2, the attack would be at +4 to hit and deal 3 Bludgeoning.
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Thanks. Appreciate you making it this far. Now, help a buddy / Random Guy on Internet out!! :)
This has bothered me too. Glad someone spoke up.
The way I read this, is that the primal companion can move and take the Dodge action, unless the ranger uses a bonus action to have it take a different action. The ranger can also forego its attack to allow the companion to attack instead.
Can that action be an Attack?
Technically, yes. But it's attack options other than maul are rather limited. It could unarmed strike, or possibly use an attack it has been granted by a spell or item (though those are usually special actions, which it can also do if ordered with BA but not with your attack).
But is the beast making 2 attacks? or is the ranger using the beast to make the attack?
I think that's my sticking point with all this.
The Ranger DOES seem to have an ability that breaks the 1 action rule (well, Primal Companion).
the only time the Beast would be using it's one action is if the ranger is incapacitated (Freeeeeddooooom!) or if left to it's own devices (move and 1 Action was Dodge).
I can't copy/paste from Tasha's because it's not in the SRD. I'm convinced that it's the Ranger taking the actions - the pet is just a puppet
I see that now, WHEN not After. Thx
At level 5, 1 attack with 1 attack action. At level 11, 2 attacks with 1 attack action.
Don't worry about quoting from books, short of posting whole subclasses, you're fine:
And from the PHB:
The beast can take 1 action. It takes the attack action. It is out of actions.
So using your bonus action and sacrificing one of your attacks is apparently an **either** not and.
Which, if that is the case, makes the beast master subclass revamp in Tasha's to fix the sub nearly. It isn't better enough to make it worthwhile.
Or. The ranger has 1 BA and 1 Action. His attack action allows for 2 attacks. Using the Beast is just a visual effect...
Nope, still useless.
The fact that you can command it with a bonus action is a distinct upgrade. Previously they had to sacrifice an attack and could only command it to attack.
At level 11, you can command it to make 2 attacks with your bonus action in addition to your own 2 attacks.
Under the description of Primal Companions in TCoE:
"..It can move and use its reaction on its own, but the only action it takes is the Dodge action.."
None of your actions need to be spent in order for the companion to do these things, so these can be done at no cost to your personal action economy. Continued:
"..but the only action it takes is the Dodge action unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action."
This means a few things, any action that exists on the Beast's stat block, or any action such as dash, Dodge, disengage, etc. They also write these rules to last long term, so although the only Actions on these 3 Primal Companions' stat blocks are attacks, they anticipate the creation of official or homebrew Primal Companions. Future Primal Companions may provide Action Abilities that aren't necessarily attack actions, although these 3 do not have any. And finally:
"You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action."
This is simply to give you flexibility, not to give your companion extra attacks. Forcing you to burn your bonus action every turn may be fine for some players, but other players use their bonus actions for certain spells or actions or abilities. If you want to cast Zephyr Strike, or maybe a multiclasser wants to use Healing Word or Bonus Action Hide, you might be willing to "sacrifice" one of your attacks INSTEAD of being bound the the bonus action. Definitely not in addition to.
Also, you can add your own custom actions to your character sheets by clicking the "Manage Custom" text in the upper right hand portion of your actions page on your character sheet ;).
You can make these whatever you want them to be, attack actions, bonus actions, reactions, weapon or unarmed or spell with customized damage and modifiers and proficiencies.
In combat, the beast acts during your turn. It can move and use its reaction on its own, but the only action it takes is the Dodge action, unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action. You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action. If you are incapacitated, the beast can take any action of its choice, not just Dodge.
1st Q: Does it take My Action, Bonus action, Free action or Move action to make the beast use it's Move action?
2nd Q: If I choose a beast form that has hands (say an ape), can it use tools like thieves' tools(I know it's not proficient with them. But that just means that it would not add the bonus to the roll)?
3rd Q: If I'm a Halflling or any other Small creature, can I mount the beast of the land/sea(I'm small and it's medium and I realy want to ride a "War Bear" in to battle)?
4th Q: Does the DM decide how the beast moves and do I only command it to use it's Actions (I think it's abvious, but there is no "RAW"rule for controling the beast other then commanding it's Actions)?
5th Q: Is commanding the beast Verbal, Visual or Telepathic?
6th Q: If I command it to attack with my Attack action and I don't issue any actions for it with my Bonus action, does the beast take Dodge as it's action? Ex. I'm level a 4 ranger, take the attack action myself and sacrifice my only attack to command my beast to use the attack action. Then I use my bonus action to cast Shillelagh.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
It does add your proficiency bonus to the roll. Primal Companions add your proficiency bonus to all ability checks they make.
There are no valid Companion forms with thumbs, but many have some way to manipulate tools - an octopus might have the easiest time, but an otter or pygmy elephant could manipulate a tool more than not at all for sure, just by way of example. Ultimately, it's your DM's call just how adroit your companion is with tools.
Are you referring to"Primal Bond. You can add your proficiency bonus to any ability check or saving throw that the beast makes."? Ok, I guess that would apply if I hand an Ape some theives' tools and it needs to make an ability check.
"You magically summon a primal beast, which draws strength from your bond with nature. The beast is friendly to you and your companions and obeys your commands. Choose its stat block—Beast of the Land, Beast of the Sea, or Beast of the Sky—which uses your proficiency bonus (PB) in several places. You also determine the kind of animal the beast is, choosing a kind appropriate for the stat block. Whatever kind you choose, the beast bears primal markings, indicating its mystical origin."
I thought that the beast don't get any other proficencies other than those in the stat block marked "PB". Ex. beast of the lands - Maul. Melee Weapon Attack: your spell attack modifier to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d8 + 2 + PB slashing damage.
Good point. I didn't realize that the beast accualy only has one Action and the ability to sacifice an Attack does not say "even if the beast has taken an action already" or somthing like that. But I think that the wording is a little missleading. "You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the attack action to command the beast to take the attack action.". I thought that meant that the beast gets to take the attack action as both my bonus and during my Attack action.
I think most people have read this ability in a way that makes this an amazing amount of attack at level 11 with "Bestial Fury". Ex. use my bonus action to command beast to attack(beast gets two attacks), use my attack action to sacrifice one of my attacks to command beast to attack(beast gets two attacks and I get one) = beast 4 attacks + my attack.
Even if I only get to attack with the beast once per turn then twice at 11th level and i can attack on my own, I still think this i better than the companion that is in the PHB.
Yes.
Your companion RAW doesn't get any proficiencies beyond baseline, per se. It adds your proficiency bonus to all ability checks and saving throws, and you're told how its special attack works. That means your DM is inherently justified in limiting your companion when interacting with a rule that requires having proficiency, like the crafting rules - a companion has no proficiencies and gets a bonus from you on a lot of things, instead of actually having the proficiencies. It also *understands* all of your languages, which doesn't necessarily imply *proficiency* - I've had at least one DM so far rule that my companion wasn't literate, as an example of how the distinction can matter.
Baseline: All creatures are proficient in making an Unarmed Strike. As it's impossible to determine the PB of the companion - it has neither a CR nor a level - it should theoretically have the baseline PB all creatures have, +2. A Beast of the Land, like all creatures, can make an Unarmed Strike. Assuming its PB is +2, the attack would be at +4 to hit and deal 3 Bludgeoning.