Hello! So I had a question on how this works. Long setup for context, but it is mainly ability description which those whom already know how they work can gloss over and just read the blue.
Me and my group took part in a tournament and the Circle of the Stars Druid and the Way of the Astral Self Monk got matched up.
The Druid set up Starry Form: Archer "When you activate this form, and as a bonus action on your subsequent turns while it lasts, you can make a ranged spell attack, hurling a luminous arrow that targets one creature within 60 feet of you. On a hit, the attack deals radiant damage equal to 1d8 + your Wisdom modifier."
The Monk set up Arms of the Astral Self: "As a bonus action, you can spend 1 ki point to summon the arms of your astral self. When you do so, each creature of your choice that you can see within 10 feet of you must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take force damage equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die.
For 10 minutes, these spectral arms hover near your shoulders or surround your arms (your choice). You determine the arms’ appearance, and they vanish early if you are incapacitated or die. While the spectral arms are present, you gain the following benefits:
You can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength modifier when making Strength checks and Strength saving throws.
You can use the spectral arms to make unarmed strikes.
When you make an unarmed strike with the arms on your turn, your reach for it is 5 feet greater than normal.
The unarmed strikes you make with the arms can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls, and their damage type is force."
So one turn, the Druid fires the luminous arrow and the monk uses Deflect Missiles using the Astral Arms: "Can use your reaction to deflect or catch the missile when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack. When you do so, the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your monk level.
If you reduce the damage to 0, you can catch the missile if it is small enough for you to hold in one hand and you have at least one hand free. If you catch a missile in this way, you can spend 1 ki point to make a ranged attack with the weapon or piece of ammunition you just caught, as part of the same reaction."
Our DM allows the the monk to deflect the ranged spell attack with the Astral Arms since they are made up of "force" energy and not deflected by any of the Monk's actual fleshy parts. (the best way to explain and understand from the description). The confusing part is that the Monk managed to reduce the damage completely, which part of the description for Deflect Missiles is to catch the missile and make a ranged attack with it. The DM made the assumption since it is just radiant energy launched at the target to hit and disperse to do damage, so it doesn't really just hold its form like weapon projectiles.
The group went into discussion about it after the session however, saying that would it be possible for the Monk to hold the radiant energy arrow with Astral Arms and quickly throw it back before it dispersed? Would it be able to do this to certain other spell attacks?
Of course we agreed it all depended on the DM, but we were wondering what others would handle this situation or if there were any rules and mechanics that could help better address it.
The luminous arrow is not a ranged weapon attack, so deflect missiles does not work on it. Letting Astral Self monks use deflect missiles on ranged spell attacks is purely a house rule, so only allowing half of the ability to work and the other half not to is also a house rule. There's no RAW here to help you out.
I can tell you that the monk should be happy to have gotten a free buff from the DM, rather than salty about the buff not being even better than it was.
At 11th Level, the Way of Astral Self Monk gains Body of the Astral Self, which allows the monk to Deflect Energy similar to the way they would with Deflect Missiles. It doesn't allow them to throw the energy after catching it, but the players are correct that it's something that an Astral Self monk can do, but not until level 11. If the DM lets them do that earlier it basically just lessens their gains at level 11.
Yeah, it basically sounds like the DM house ruled that the monk gets their 11th level feature (exactly as written) early.
This is why it is common advice with rulings (particularly illusion spells) to not allow players to do something that a higher level spell/feature does.
The one thing to note regarding the 11th-level feature is that it still wouldn’t work against the Stars druid, because radiant damage is not one of the types the Astral Self monk is able to deflect.
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Hello! So I had a question on how this works. Long setup for context, but it is mainly ability description which those whom already know how they work can gloss over and just read the blue.
Me and my group took part in a tournament and the Circle of the Stars Druid and the Way of the Astral Self Monk got matched up.
The Druid set up Starry Form: Archer "When you activate this form, and as a bonus action on your subsequent turns while it lasts, you can make a ranged spell attack, hurling a luminous arrow that targets one creature within 60 feet of you. On a hit, the attack deals radiant damage equal to 1d8 + your Wisdom modifier."
The Monk set up Arms of the Astral Self: "As a bonus action, you can spend 1 ki point to summon the arms of your astral self. When you do so, each creature of your choice that you can see within 10 feet of you must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take force damage equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die.
For 10 minutes, these spectral arms hover near your shoulders or surround your arms (your choice). You determine the arms’ appearance, and they vanish early if you are incapacitated or die. While the spectral arms are present, you gain the following benefits:
So one turn, the Druid fires the luminous arrow and the monk uses Deflect Missiles using the Astral Arms: "Can use your reaction to deflect or catch the missile when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack. When you do so, the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your monk level.
If you reduce the damage to 0, you can catch the missile if it is small enough for you to hold in one hand and you have at least one hand free. If you catch a missile in this way, you can spend 1 ki point to make a ranged attack with the weapon or piece of ammunition you just caught, as part of the same reaction."
Our DM allows the the monk to deflect the ranged spell attack with the Astral Arms since they are made up of "force" energy and not deflected by any of the Monk's actual fleshy parts. (the best way to explain and understand from the description). The confusing part is that the Monk managed to reduce the damage completely, which part of the description for Deflect Missiles is to catch the missile and make a ranged attack with it. The DM made the assumption since it is just radiant energy launched at the target to hit and disperse to do damage, so it doesn't really just hold its form like weapon projectiles.
The group went into discussion about it after the session however, saying that would it be possible for the Monk to hold the radiant energy arrow with Astral Arms and quickly throw it back before it dispersed? Would it be able to do this to certain other spell attacks?
Of course we agreed it all depended on the DM, but we were wondering what others would handle this situation or if there were any rules and mechanics that could help better address it.
The luminous arrow is not a ranged weapon attack, so deflect missiles does not work on it. Letting Astral Self monks use deflect missiles on ranged spell attacks is purely a house rule, so only allowing half of the ability to work and the other half not to is also a house rule. There's no RAW here to help you out.
I can tell you that the monk should be happy to have gotten a free buff from the DM, rather than salty about the buff not being even better than it was.
At 11th Level, the Way of Astral Self Monk gains Body of the Astral Self, which allows the monk to Deflect Energy similar to the way they would with Deflect Missiles. It doesn't allow them to throw the energy after catching it, but the players are correct that it's something that an Astral Self monk can do, but not until level 11. If the DM lets them do that earlier it basically just lessens their gains at level 11.
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Yeah, it basically sounds like the DM house ruled that the monk gets their 11th level feature (exactly as written) early.
This is why it is common advice with rulings (particularly illusion spells) to not allow players to do something that a higher level spell/feature does.
Thanks for all your feedback! It is greatly appreciated!
I'll definitely let my DM think about how to address this for future sessions.
The one thing to note regarding the 11th-level feature is that it still wouldn’t work against the Stars druid, because radiant damage is not one of the types the Astral Self monk is able to deflect.