See, you're playing a bit of a rhetorical game here now. Look. Dim Light is not... by itself, sufficiently obscured for most creatures to hide in. If there are other compounding obscurement that might create a better hiding location? Then of course dim light can be part of that balanced breakfast. But it isn't breakfast all on its own.
No I'm not gaming you, I might have been a bit unclear though. But I agree, just being in dim light isn't enough. Bright light, dim light, darkness are all lighting conditions/levels and that isn't what's needed. Being obscured is, if that comes from cover, being invisible, being unseen in darkness or whatever. So if you are in the town square in the bright midday sun but you have a pile of barrels to duck behind then you can hide in bright light.
Unless you have one of those other abilities. With Skulker or Wood Elf traits, dim light is all the breakfast you need for a good hiding time.
No. I quoted them above and neither mentions lighting conditions, both say "lightly obscured".
And this is where I have issues with your interpretation of Shadow Stealth. It says it gives the BA Hide action in "dim light or darkness" but never mentions any requirement of being obscured. So it lacks the language of Skulker or Wood Elf but yet you say it should be allowed to do the same thing and I just can't see why. So I'll go back to saying what I said from the start, if they wanted Shadow Stealth to work like Skulker then it would have been really good if they actually used language that said that.
See, you're playing a bit of a rhetorical game here now. Look. Dim Light is not... by itself, sufficiently obscured for most creatures to hide in. If there are other compounding obscurement that might create a better hiding location? Then of course dim light can be part of that balanced breakfast. But it isn't breakfast all on its own.
No I'm not gaming you, I might have been a bit unclear though. But I agree, just being in dim light isn't enough. Bright light, dim light, darkness are all lighting conditions/levels and that isn't what's needed. Being obscured is, if that comes from cover, being invisible, being unseen in darkness or whatever. So if you are in the town square in the bright midday sun but you have a pile of barrels to duck behind then you can hide in bright light.
Agreed then. You can only hide in a lightly obscured area if an ability grants you that ability. Otherwise, you must default to standard hiding requirements.
Unless you have one of those other abilities. With Skulker or Wood Elf traits, dim light is all the breakfast you need for a good hiding time.
No. I quoted them above and neither mentions lighting conditions, both say "lightly obscured".
Lighting conditions, yes. Dim light is lightly obscured though.
Here is the relevant rules text if you were not aware that lower levels of light caused obscured area...
Dim light, also called shadows, creates a lightly obscured area. An area of dim light is usually a boundary between a source of bright light, such as a torch, and surrounding darkness. The soft light of twilight and dawn also counts as dim light. A particularly brilliant full moon might bathe the land in dim light.
Darkness creates a heavily obscured area. Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights), within the confines of an unlit dungeon or a subterranean vault, or in an area of magical darkness.
Dim light can be both a lightly obscured area, and a natural one. Like during sunset, or a full moon, or etc. In these cases, a wood elf's ability is very relevant.
And this is where I have issues with your interpretation of Shadow Stealth. It says it gives the BA Hide action in "dim light or darkness" but never mentions any requirement of being obscured. So it lacks the language of Skulker or Wood Elf but yet you say it should be allowed to do the same thing and I just can't see why. So I'll go back to saying what I said from the start, if they wanted Shadow Stealth to work like Skulker then it would have been really good if they actually used language that said that.
Again, your issue stems from not knowing that dim light creates a lightly obscured area.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Again, your issue stems from not knowing that dim light creates a lightly obscured area.
No my issues stem from knowing that dim light doesn't always create a lightly obscured area.
An area of dim light is still an area of dim light even if someone with Darkvision is looking at it. The area will however not be lightly obscured for the creature with Darkvision and thus someone with the Skulker feat will not be able to hid there (based on just the lighting condition). When you add the more powerful senses like Truesight, Blindsight or Devils Sight then even darkness (or magical darkness) wont be enough to let someone hide (based on just the lighting conditions).
But Shadow Stealth doesn't bother with obscurement, it just mentions lighting conditions. And that quickly becomes problematic when creatures with Shadow Stealth comes up against creatures with special senses because the special senses doesn't affect with the lighting conditions, it just uses them to determine vision/obscurement.
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No I'm not gaming you, I might have been a bit unclear though. But I agree, just being in dim light isn't enough. Bright light, dim light, darkness are all lighting conditions/levels and that isn't what's needed. Being obscured is, if that comes from cover, being invisible, being unseen in darkness or whatever. So if you are in the town square in the bright midday sun but you have a pile of barrels to duck behind then you can hide in bright light.
No. I quoted them above and neither mentions lighting conditions, both say "lightly obscured".
And this is where I have issues with your interpretation of Shadow Stealth. It says it gives the BA Hide action in "dim light or darkness" but never mentions any requirement of being obscured. So it lacks the language of Skulker or Wood Elf but yet you say it should be allowed to do the same thing and I just can't see why. So I'll go back to saying what I said from the start, if they wanted Shadow Stealth to work like Skulker then it would have been really good if they actually used language that said that.
Agreed then. You can only hide in a lightly obscured area if an ability grants you that ability. Otherwise, you must default to standard hiding requirements.
Lighting conditions, yes. Dim light is lightly obscured though.
Here is the relevant rules text if you were not aware that lower levels of light caused obscured area...
Dim light can be both a lightly obscured area, and a natural one. Like during sunset, or a full moon, or etc. In these cases, a wood elf's ability is very relevant.
Again, your issue stems from not knowing that dim light creates a lightly obscured area.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
No my issues stem from knowing that dim light doesn't always create a lightly obscured area.
An area of dim light is still an area of dim light even if someone with Darkvision is looking at it. The area will however not be lightly obscured for the creature with Darkvision and thus someone with the Skulker feat will not be able to hid there (based on just the lighting condition). When you add the more powerful senses like Truesight, Blindsight or Devils Sight then even darkness (or magical darkness) wont be enough to let someone hide (based on just the lighting conditions).
But Shadow Stealth doesn't bother with obscurement, it just mentions lighting conditions. And that quickly becomes problematic when creatures with Shadow Stealth comes up against creatures with special senses because the special senses doesn't affect with the lighting conditions, it just uses them to determine vision/obscurement.