Something I have noted on these boards - WOtC has a really bad habit of intentionally (it has to be given the frequency) using wording similar to this. I suppose it’s to give DMs more freedom in how they run their tables which is ok. But, it also leaves questions like this one on hoard items, as well as in other places like artificer infusions and treasure scrolls/spellbooks for wizards open to a huge range of interpretation of just what is RAW (& RAI) that a few sidebars explaining their ideas of game balance then leaving it to DMs to alter would go a long way to solving. Of course if 5hey did that I wouldn’t have as much fun here as I do 😁🤪😜🤡
I think what is creating the problem is that first line in RAW: “ When they get to the first stage (slumbering) they become uncommon.” The when and become at least suggest that they started off (before being placed in the hoard) as something even lower ie a common magic item or even possibly a specially crafted mundane item. As seems to often be the case with with WOtC the wording is just loose enough to give power gamers room to try the outer limits.
I can't actually find this bit in the Hoard Magic Items section, so I might be overlooking it. Where is it mentioned they become uncommon?
I was quoting from Ravnodus for that he may want to check for us.
That was me quoting and responding to Kotath. His words not mine.
But, items can "become" slumbering when they go through the powering down process.
See:
Just as hoard items can grow in power by absorbing the ambient magic of a dragon’s hoard, so too can these treasures fall back into slumber. If no creature is attuned to a hoard item and that item isn’t in a dragon’s hoard, the item decreases in power by one state every 30 days until it is Slumbering.
Each item lists what rarity they are at the various stages, but, the pattern is quickly evident that while they are Slumbering they're Uncommon. Couple examples:
Slumbering (Uncommon). Whenever you roll a 20 on your attack roll with this weapon, each creature of your choice within 5 feet of the target takes 5 damage of the type dealt by the dragon’s breath weapon.
.
Slumbering (Uncommon). You have advantage on initiative rolls. While you are holding the focus, it can function as a spellcasting focus for all your spells.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
just went back to reread Fizban- reads like the dragon hoard item is created at the slumbering level, then if placed in a young or older dragon’s hoard for 1year it soaks up the magic to move to the appropriate level for that dragon (8 hours if the dragon has just been killed.). So as I reread it these are separate from all other magic items having been created specifically to be enhanced by the magic of a dragon’s hoard and regular magic items placed in a hoard aren’t altered/ grow in power as these do. Anyone read it different?
And after being corrected, I said that I stand corrected. But repeat that uncommon items are not that hard to make.
An average uncommon magic item is much easier to make than the average rare item, this is true. However, there are no hard rules in 5e to determine exactly how this process works besides a few guidelines that only partially address this (25gp progress /day, faster than that if you have the artificer feature, requires a schematic to even begin construction, may or may not need other unique materials and ingredients too, rough guide to item pricing but not on a per-item basis).
What this means is although there are *some* rules related to crafting items, it's also partially homebrew / up to DM approval to even allow you to begin creating such an item. So it's not a remotely reliable way to power game and if you're doing so, you're taking advantage of your DM more than you are taking advantage of the rules presented.
Personally like most magic items I'd require you to quest specifically to create something like this, it's not something any old artificer could knock out over a couple weeks in his shed. I may also increase the cost from the standard 500gp range, based on the fact this "uncommon" magic item is required to hold the capacity to contain much much more potent enchantments without any major modifications.
I got the impression that dragons don't like having hoard items around, soaking up their magic, so I assume they wouldn't go about making them. This is from the little quote at the start of the section:
I’ve let adventurers put their toys in my hoard to steep once or twice. I can never get a good night’s sleep while they’re there, though. It’s like an itch. -Fizban
I got the impression that dragons don't like having hoard items around, soaking up their magic, so I assume they wouldn't go about making them. This is from the little quote at the start of the section:
I’ve let adventurers put their toys in my hoard to steep once or twice. I can never get a good night’s sleep while they’re there, though. It’s like an itch. -Fizban
They might make them deliberately for trusted minions, though. A metallic peacekeeper is a much better minion armed with a Dragon's Wrath weapon, for example, since their slam isn't natively magical or anything.
Yes but I don’t see the dragon actively participating in the acquisition of the formula, materials or construction beyond allowing the minion to soak the sword in their hoard for a year. “You want it? Ok go make it and yes I’ll let it soak for a year for you.”
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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Something I have noted on these boards - WOtC has a really bad habit of intentionally (it has to be given the frequency) using wording similar to this. I suppose it’s to give DMs more freedom in how they run their tables which is ok. But, it also leaves questions like this one on hoard items, as well as in other places like artificer infusions and treasure scrolls/spellbooks for wizards open to a huge range of interpretation of just what is RAW (& RAI) that a few sidebars explaining their ideas of game balance then leaving it to DMs to alter would go a long way to solving. Of course if 5hey did that I wouldn’t have as much fun here as I do 😁🤪😜🤡
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I can't actually find this bit in the Hoard Magic Items section, so I might be overlooking it. Where is it mentioned they become uncommon?
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I was quoting from Ravnodus for that he may want to check for us.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
That was me quoting and responding to Kotath. His words not mine.
But, items can "become" slumbering when they go through the powering down process.
See:
Each item lists what rarity they are at the various stages, but, the pattern is quickly evident that while they are Slumbering they're Uncommon. Couple examples:
.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Kotath - your turn 😁
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Ok then I copied the wrong bit - sorry everyone.
just went back to reread Fizban- reads like the dragon hoard item is created at the slumbering level, then if placed in a young or older dragon’s hoard for 1year it soaks up the magic to move to the appropriate level for that dragon (8 hours if the dragon has just been killed.). So as I reread it these are separate from all other magic items having been created specifically to be enhanced by the magic of a dragon’s hoard and regular magic items placed in a hoard aren’t altered/ grow in power as these do. Anyone read it different?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
The first line, "Certain magic items can absorb the ambient magic of a dragon’s hoard."
Does this mean only magic items can become hoard items?
No, hoard items are distinct magical items as listed in FToD, not magical features that you can apply to other items.
An average uncommon magic item is much easier to make than the average rare item, this is true. However, there are no hard rules in 5e to determine exactly how this process works besides a few guidelines that only partially address this (25gp progress /day, faster than that if you have the artificer feature, requires a schematic to even begin construction, may or may not need other unique materials and ingredients too, rough guide to item pricing but not on a per-item basis).
What this means is although there are *some* rules related to crafting items, it's also partially homebrew / up to DM approval to even allow you to begin creating such an item. So it's not a remotely reliable way to power game and if you're doing so, you're taking advantage of your DM more than you are taking advantage of the rules presented.
Personally like most magic items I'd require you to quest specifically to create something like this, it's not something any old artificer could knock out over a couple weeks in his shed. I may also increase the cost from the standard 500gp range, based on the fact this "uncommon" magic item is required to hold the capacity to contain much much more potent enchantments without any major modifications.
I got the impression that dragons don't like having hoard items around, soaking up their magic, so I assume they wouldn't go about making them. This is from the little quote at the start of the section:
They might make them deliberately for trusted minions, though. A metallic peacekeeper is a much better minion armed with a Dragon's Wrath weapon, for example, since their slam isn't natively magical or anything.
Yes but I don’t see the dragon actively participating in the acquisition of the formula, materials or construction beyond allowing the minion to soak the sword in their hoard for a year.
“You want it? Ok go make it and yes I’ll let it soak for a year for you.”
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.