So, i'm making a Half-elf Eldritch knight/Bladesinger, and since l won't be getting feat's until level 7 (unless the dm is very nice), l was wondering lf there was a way to still use spells in combat, even though they're a Duel Wielder. Specifically ones that would work RAW, cause l currently don't have a DM to ask.
My idea was, when l want to cast a spell, they drop their weapons, and as a bonus action, pick them up again. Well, that was before l learned that "Use a object" is a action, so i'm guessing that picking up my swords would count as "draw or sheathe a sword" (Though hopefully l can pick them both up without the duel wielder feat, but that's something to work out with the DM). That said, would dropping the weapons count as a free action, or the "use a object" action?
At least one of the designers have said that they would allow dropping an object to be no action. I can get behind that up to the point that your character is built around doing that every round.
You could pick up or unsheathe 1 weapon as a free object interaction for your action, but if you've already used the interaction, you'd need the Use an Object action to pick up a weapon. You'd only be able to do that as a Bonus Action if you gain the ability from a feature like the Thief Rogue's Fast Hands.
Note that you only need 1 free hand to cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, so you don't need to drop both weapons in order to cast a spell.
With my Arcane Trickster Rogue, I had a dagger palmed during combat so that I had the other hand free to cast, and or could unsheathe a shortsword to attack.
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My idea was, when l want to cast a spell, they drop their weapons, and as a bonus action, pick them up again. Well, that was before l learned that "Use a object" is a action, so i'm guessing that picking up my swords would count as "draw or sheathe a sword" (Though hopefully l can pick them both up without the duel wielder feat, but that's something to work out with the DM). That said, would dropping the weapons count as a free action, or the "use a object" action?
A lot of refs (and groups) would probably think it was pretty cheesy to be dropping your weapon every round to cast a spell, and then immediately picking it up again.
You should expect the dropped weapon to sometimes bounce away, or otherwise not be immediately retrievable if you were to use this tactic regularly.
Also, is it really optimal to gradually build up 3 levels in each class before gaining an ASI from one of the classes?
I noticed the OP's other thread about Eldritch Knight's Weapon Bond. That would "work" for retrieving a dropped (bonded) weapon with a bonus action, though it seems more intended for bringing back a thrown weapon (like a dagger or handaxe.)
Note that you only need 1 free hand to cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, so you don't need to drop both weapons in order to cast a spell.
Wait, but isn't the War Caster Feat required to "perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or a shield in one or both hands."?
A lot of refs (and groups) would probably think it was pretty cheesy to be dropping your weapon every round to cast a spell, and then immediately picking it up again.
You should expect the dropped weapon to sometimes bounce away, or otherwise not be immediately retrievable if you were to use this tactic regularly.
Also, is it really optimal to gradually build up 3 levels in each class before gaining an ASI from one of the classes?
1:My intention for the character is to be a melee combatant who occasionally uses spells in combat, so at worst, lt would be every third round, though lt would depend on the situation.
2:Yeah, that'd be fair, if l use the tactic enough and or end my turn without being able to pick the weapon/s up.
3: Maybe? Their stats are fine, and l like my leveling plan, so even if it isn't as long as i'm having fun, l don't really care if it's optimal.
I noticed the OP's other thread about Eldritch Knight's Weapon Bond. That would "work" for retrieving a dropped (bonded) weapon with a bonus action, though it seems more intended for bringing back a thrown weapon (like a dagger or handaxe.)
Well, at minimum, that will work as a backup plan.
The idea is that you need a free hand to cast a spell with a Somatic component. But you can perform the Somatic component with a hand that's holding the Material component (if the spell has a Material (M) component.)
So if you're wanting to cast Booming Blade, which is SM for components, you are holding the weapon you're using for the Material component, which you (can) also use for the flourishes needed for the Somatic component, as you make the attack. No need to drop anything.
Edit: But if you're trying to cast Shield, which doesn't have a Material component, then by RAW you would need a free hand to cast it. That's where War Caster can come in handy.
To take a step back: Why are you mixing eldritch knight and blade singer? It seems like you’re trying to go with 2 gishes, but combining them gives you almost no benefit.
To take a step back: Why are you mixing eldritch knight and blade singer? It seems like you’re trying to go with 2 gishes, but combining them gives you almost no benefit.
Well, I had the idea for a half elven noble duel wielder, and decided l also wanted them to have access to some magic, so l decided that putting the first level into fighter for con save and weapon proficiency, the starting health, and starting weapons would be perfect, but l felt that EK's spells were too limiting, plus bladesinger is great for a melee dex combatant, so l decided to put a level or two into wizard.
From there, l decided to build the wizard levels until 5th level (access to 3rd level spells, like fly or fireball) and put the rest into fighter, so they have access to action surge, extra attacks, and more feats.
Sure, they'll never gain access to higher level spells, but l like the build, and the character, so l think it's fine. I only created this thread to learn about any rules about dropping/ picking up weapons in combat that l missed, so l can be prepared for when they want to cast a spell like shield or lightning lure.
This is my current leveling plan (Numbers list total level) (The things listed are my reasons for taking each level) :
F:1,4,5,7,8.11.12,13 (Starting gear and proficiencies + Fighting Style, Action Surge, Subclass, Feat (warcaster), Extra Attack, Feat (Tough), EK ability, ASI.)
The thing about having the Fighter starting gear & proficiencies, is if you're going to be using Bladesong, you won't be able to don shields or any armor beyond light armor, so those proficiencies are a waste.
If you went to Wizard 6, you'd have Extra Attack with the ability to replace 1 of the attacks with a cantrip, so you don't even need Fighter's Extra Attack or the EK's War Magic feature.
A spell your character would probably benefit the heck out of once you hit Wizard 3 is Shadow Blade - you can throw or drop the blade at the end of your turn in order to have a hand free in case of needing to cast Shield, and then bring it back on your next turn with a bonus action. Meanwhile you still have your other weapon in hand for making opportunity attacks if you want to.
If you still feel you need to start as a Fighter for the CON save proficiency, the Resilient (CON) feat would take care of that, and meanwhile you'd have skills and saves that would help a Wizard.
Of course, it all depends on what you're wanting to do with this character...
Edit: Ehh, I'm probably going a bit too far by saying not to start as a Fighter, especially if you were figuring you wanted the starting HP, armor proficiency and equipment. If you find yourself lacking a Wizard save proficiency you could do Resilient (WIS) feat later.
This should definitely be flavored differently in game. It would be very silly to see your character dropping and picking up weapons to cast spells.
Try to focus on spells without somatic components. Or alternately, if you don't take feats that let you use your bonus action frequently, use your weapon bond to throw your weapon to the side as you cast the spell, and then the next round, use your weapon bond to cinematically teleport your weapon back into your hand just before you strike with your attacks.
I am currently playing an EK as well, I often use weapon bond to clean my weapon from blood/guts etc. All sorts of cool cinematic stuff basically. I personally don't use a shield, so spell casting isn't much of a problem for me mechanically.
Another thing, if your DM is not allowing feats, then that really hurts fighters in general. Fighters often need feats to find the individual flavor that the player wishes.
If you're up in melee range, a good DM might have your opponents pick up your weapon after you drop it, or they might kick/throw it to someplace else on the battlefield.
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So, i'm making a Half-elf Eldritch knight/Bladesinger, and since l won't be getting feat's until level 7 (unless the dm is very nice), l was wondering lf there was a way to still use spells in combat, even though they're a Duel Wielder. Specifically ones that would work RAW, cause l currently don't have a DM to ask.
My idea was, when l want to cast a spell, they drop their weapons, and as a bonus action, pick them up again. Well, that was before l learned that "Use a object" is a action, so i'm guessing that picking up my swords would count as "draw or sheathe a sword" (Though hopefully l can pick them both up without the duel wielder feat, but that's something to work out with the DM). That said, would dropping the weapons count as a free action, or the "use a object" action?
At least one of the designers have said that they would allow dropping an object to be no action. I can get behind that up to the point that your character is built around doing that every round.
You could pick up or unsheathe 1 weapon as a free object interaction for your action, but if you've already used the interaction, you'd need the Use an Object action to pick up a weapon. You'd only be able to do that as a Bonus Action if you gain the ability from a feature like the Thief Rogue's Fast Hands.
Note that you only need 1 free hand to cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, so you don't need to drop both weapons in order to cast a spell.
With my Arcane Trickster Rogue, I had a dagger palmed during combat so that I had the other hand free to cast, and or could unsheathe a shortsword to attack.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
A lot of refs (and groups) would probably think it was pretty cheesy to be dropping your weapon every round to cast a spell, and then immediately picking it up again.
You should expect the dropped weapon to sometimes bounce away, or otherwise not be immediately retrievable if you were to use this tactic regularly.
Also, is it really optimal to gradually build up 3 levels in each class before gaining an ASI from one of the classes?
I recommend a Ruby of the War Mage.
Same, I had one (on my palmed dagger.)
I noticed the OP's other thread about Eldritch Knight's Weapon Bond. That would "work" for retrieving a dropped (bonded) weapon with a bonus action, though it seems more intended for bringing back a thrown weapon (like a dagger or handaxe.)
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Wait, but isn't the War Caster Feat required to "perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or a shield in one or both hands."?
1:My intention for the character is to be a melee combatant who occasionally uses spells in combat, so at worst, lt would be every third round, though lt would depend on the situation.
2:Yeah, that'd be fair, if l use the tactic enough and or end my turn without being able to pick the weapon/s up.
3: Maybe? Their stats are fine, and l like my leveling plan, so even if it isn't as long as i'm having fun, l don't really care if it's optimal.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I will make it a point to try to obtain it as soon as possible.
Well, at minimum, that will work as a backup plan.
The idea is that you need a free hand to cast a spell with a Somatic component. But you can perform the Somatic component with a hand that's holding the Material component (if the spell has a Material (M) component.)
So if you're wanting to cast Booming Blade, which is SM for components, you are holding the weapon you're using for the Material component, which you (can) also use for the flourishes needed for the Somatic component, as you make the attack. No need to drop anything.
Edit: But if you're trying to cast Shield, which doesn't have a Material component, then by RAW you would need a free hand to cast it. That's where War Caster can come in handy.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
To take a step back: Why are you mixing eldritch knight and blade singer? It seems like you’re trying to go with 2 gishes, but combining them gives you almost no benefit.
Well, I had the idea for a half elven noble duel wielder, and decided l also wanted them to have access to some magic, so l decided that putting the first level into fighter for con save and weapon proficiency, the starting health, and starting weapons would be perfect, but l felt that EK's spells were too limiting, plus bladesinger is great for a melee dex combatant, so l decided to put a level or two into wizard.
From there, l decided to build the wizard levels until 5th level (access to 3rd level spells, like fly or fireball) and put the rest into fighter, so they have access to action surge, extra attacks, and more feats.
Sure, they'll never gain access to higher level spells, but l like the build, and the character, so l think it's fine. I only created this thread to learn about any rules about dropping/ picking up weapons in combat that l missed, so l can be prepared for when they want to cast a spell like shield or lightning lure.
This is my current leveling plan (Numbers list total level) (The things listed are my reasons for taking each level) :
F:1,4,5,7,8.11.12,13 (Starting gear and proficiencies + Fighting Style, Action Surge, Subclass, Feat (warcaster), Extra Attack, Feat (Tough), EK ability, ASI.)
W:2,3,6,9,10 (Cantrips & 6 First Level Spells + Spellbook+ Arcane recovery + Ritual Casting + Spell Focus, Bladesong, 2nd level spells, Feat (Duel Wielder) 3rd level spells.
The thing about having the Fighter starting gear & proficiencies, is if you're going to be using Bladesong, you won't be able to don shields or any armor beyond light armor, so those proficiencies are a waste.
If you went to Wizard 6, you'd have Extra Attack with the ability to replace 1 of the attacks with a cantrip, so you don't even need Fighter's Extra Attack or the EK's War Magic feature.
A spell your character would probably benefit the heck out of once you hit Wizard 3 is Shadow Blade - you can throw or drop the blade at the end of your turn in order to have a hand free in case of needing to cast Shield, and then bring it back on your next turn with a bonus action. Meanwhile you still have your other weapon in hand for making opportunity attacks if you want to.
If you still feel you need to start as a Fighter for the CON save proficiency, the Resilient (CON) feat would take care of that, and meanwhile you'd have skills and saves that would help a Wizard.
Of course, it all depends on what you're wanting to do with this character...
Edit: Ehh, I'm probably going a bit too far by saying not to start as a Fighter, especially if you were figuring you wanted the starting HP, armor proficiency and equipment. If you find yourself lacking a Wizard save proficiency you could do Resilient (WIS) feat later.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
This should definitely be flavored differently in game. It would be very silly to see your character dropping and picking up weapons to cast spells.
Try to focus on spells without somatic components. Or alternately, if you don't take feats that let you use your bonus action frequently, use your weapon bond to throw your weapon to the side as you cast the spell, and then the next round, use your weapon bond to cinematically teleport your weapon back into your hand just before you strike with your attacks.
I am currently playing an EK as well, I often use weapon bond to clean my weapon from blood/guts etc. All sorts of cool cinematic stuff basically. I personally don't use a shield, so spell casting isn't much of a problem for me mechanically.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Another thing, if your DM is not allowing feats, then that really hurts fighters in general. Fighters often need feats to find the individual flavor that the player wishes.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
If you're up in melee range, a good DM might have your opponents pick up your weapon after you drop it, or they might kick/throw it to someplace else on the battlefield.