I would go further and ask those thinking this should work just what answers the Augury should give for some of these cards.
Comet: Sounds good, but to answer properly, the DM has to know not just what the party will fight next (despite that depending in part on party decisions) but exactly how the fight will play out (depends on much more complex party decisions). Could even be a bad card, if the party picks what they think is an easy fight for the person who drew the card but the party misread the situation and the fight goes badly.
The Fates: Again, whether good or not depends on the event. Bonus mess since it does not place any temporal limit on the event it could undo. Not knowing the event, there is no way for the DM to be sure if undoing it would be for the best or worst or neutral.
Jester: The DM has to know the two additional cards and decide whether any negatives from them outweigh the 10k xps
Key: Is it a useful weapon or cursed?
Moon: To be able to decide weal or woe, the DM has to know what wishes would be made
Sun: Again, item appearing in hand could be cursed and outweigh the good of the 50k xps
Throne: Depending on the monsters, could make things very much worse.
Comet: Aurgury would yield the "Nothing" response, because drawing the card has no effect apart from the consequences of a future conflict, which the card didn't cause, and the question about pulling the card doesn't take into account how a fight might go.
The Fates: Augury would yield the "weal" response because having the ability to undo a past mistake, or to prevent a bad thing from happening is a boon for the recipient, and the card doesn't take into account the character's future decisions on what to do with that power.
Jester: Augury would yield the "weal" response because gaining Xp is a boon, and the character has the option to draw additional cards, but is under no obligation to do so. The decision to draw or not draw additional cards is a variable that Augury doesn't account for, and it doesn't affect the result from the spell.
Key: If a non-cursed weapon is received, Augury would yield the "weal" response. If the weapon is cursed, it would yield either a "woe" or a "weal and woe" response. The DM would secretly determine what magic item appears at the time of the casting of the spell to be able to give the 100% accurate answer the spell specifically says it gives.
Moon: Augury would yield the "weal" response, because gaining the ability to cast wish is a boon, and the spell does not take into account variables like what the character decides to wish for.
Sun: Augury would yield the "weal" response if the magic item is not cursed, or the "weal and woe" response if the magic item is cursed, because even with the nevative of a curse, gaining a large amount of Xp is still a boon. The DM would secretly determine what magic item appears at the time of the casting of the spell to be able to give the 100% accurate answer the spell specifically says it gives.
Throne: Augury would yield the "weal" response, because gaining an expertise is a boon, and ownership of a keep is a boon. The spell doesn't take into account variables like combat, and the character is under no obligation to claim the keep, so even if the reward were Castle Ravenloft, it's still not a bane unless that ownership of the castle results in Srahd pulling you into Barovia to consume you body and soul.
If it only takes into account what happens the very instant of the drawing, most then would get 'nothing.' Even Gem only drops the valuables at your feet. You have not even picked them up yet.
Potential value has value. Otherwise, getting money is never anything other than neutral since you may or may not use it in the future. It still has value in the present on the basis that it has a value attributed to it by society which is an advantage to you in the future.
With The Fates, you are assuming that undoing something is actually automatically good for the person doing so. Not a given, even if they think it is at the time. If what we think is a good thing always is, there would be no need for Augury.
Jester is 'or.' 10k xps 'or.' So the DM has to know the choice result in advance.
Key: Basically, if the DM does not like the use of Augury, they could punish by giving a bad item. Heisenberg. The viewing could have changed the result.
Moon: If the player uses the wish badly, it could kill them or kill allies. If they use it for anything other than spell duplication they could cut themselves off from future wishes and knock themselves out for a few days. The ability to fire a really powerful weapon that you cannot fully control and may harm you can be seen as a bad thing rather than a good one.
Sun: Again you are handing the trigger to the DM.
Throne: The monsters currently have squatters' rights at a minimum. The result gives you no information as to what and/or who they are. If it is a Barovian castle, you are assuming the PC's know anything about Barovia at all to know not to go there. And you could have title to a local keep, resulting in the local lord (whose troops are occupying the castle) feeling you own him back taxes, putting you in immediate debt (immediately bad) possibly requiring you to flee the country (immediately bad).
And Augury covers the results of a specific 'course of action,' which is not merely a single action. It does not even define 'results' other than 'within the next 30 minutes.'
You're really stretching to lawyer yourself around things that are obvious. You're adding variables that aren't in the calculation for Augury's results. You're making these arguments in regards to the Deck of Many Things, but your arguments could be applied to literally all uses of Augury under any circumstance, making it utterly useless in all scenarios. If you're going to do that, you might as well ban it from your table up front in session zero to avoid the trouble. That would at least be fair to the players instead of letting them take the spell, then never letting it work in situations where the player was counting on it.
This question is a moot point if the party is already in possession of the item. The party can simply forgo casting Augury and draw any number of cards immediately. Augury does not put the DM in a more difficult position than the Deck already has; the DM already needs an answer to all of the listed scenarios as well as the other cards in the Deck regardless of whether or not the party can even cast Augury or chooses to do so. If you have added the Deck to your campaign as a DM and you cannot answer what happens when a card is drawn, then you have already failed to prepare. For every situation in which you think Augury makes things more difficult for the DM, how would the party spontaneously drawing a card(or multiple cards) be any easier? Being a DM can be brutal enough spending time and energy not only on what the party experiences, but on every situation that they do not pursue and every interaction that does come to fruition. The Deck makes that a nightmare, not how the players interact with the Deck.
Augury as a spell is pretty clearly defined with what it can accomplish and what its limitations are; it does not have the potential to "break" a campaign or an interaction with an entity or item, or at least it shouldn't if it is followed as-written. The Deck is not meant for a vast majority of campaigns, and Augury is neither a way to "beat" the Deck nor is it an over-powered or problematic spell. If you can use Counterspell at 3rd level to nullify anything up to and including 9th level spells, you can certainly use Augury to gain vague knowledge about an action you take involving an item already in your possession. Casting Augury on the Deck is not any more problematic than drawing a card; the issue here is that the Deck is just bonkers to deal with in any "what if" scenario, and that can feel unfair or unreasonable to both players and the DM.
Edited to add the following Scenario 1(party casts Augury): "So, hypothetically speaking, would it be good or bad for me if I drew a card from the deck right now?" Scenario 2(party does not cast Augury): "I draw a card from the deck right now."
The DM is faced with either the actual consequences of whatever card is drawn, or describing them in a pretty reductive way. You aren't tasked with predicting how a player would use a card like the Fates, or the long term outcome of gaining a nemesis from the Rogue card, but gaining access to the Fates card would be weal, and gaining a new enemy would be woe. Whether Augury is cast or the card is actually drawn you're essentially answering the same question as a DM: "What would happen if xyz card was drawn right now?". Augury just gives that answer in the form of "good stuff", "bad stuff", "good and bad stuff" or "nothing".
This question is a moot point if the party is already in possession of the item. The party can simply forgo casting Augury and draw any number of cards immediately. Augury does not put the DM in a more difficult position than the Deck already has; the DM already needs an answer to all of the listed scenarios as well as the other cards in the Deck regardless of whether or not the party can even cast Augury or chooses to do so. If you have added the Deck to your campaign as a DM and you cannot answer what happens when a card is drawn, then you have already failed to prepare. For every situation in which you think Augury makes things more difficult for the DM, how would the party spontaneously drawing a card(or multiple cards) be any easier? Being a DM can be brutal enough spending time and energy not only on what the party experiences, but on every situation that they do not pursue and every interaction that does come to fruition. The Deck makes that a nightmare, not how the players interact with the Deck.
Augury as a spell is pretty clearly defined with what it can accomplish and what its limitations are; it does not have the potential to "break" a campaign or an interaction with an entity or item, or at least it shouldn't if it is followed as-written. The Deck is not meant for a vast majority of campaigns, and Augury is neither a way to "beat" the Deck nor is it an over-powered or problematic spell. If you can use Counterspell at 3rd level to nullify anything up to and including 9th level spells, you can certainly use Augury to gain vague knowledge about an action you take involving an item already in your possession. Casting Augury on the Deck is not any more problematic than drawing a card; the issue here is that the Deck is just bonkers to deal with in any "what if" scenario, and that can feel unfair or unreasonable to both players and the DM.
Edited to add the following Scenario 1([cleric in a potentially less than balanced] party casts Augury): "So, hypothetically speaking, would it be good or bad for me if I drew a card from the deck right now?" Scenario 2(party does not cast Augury): "I draw a card from the deck right now."
The DM is faced with either the actual consequences of whatever card is drawn, or describing them in a pretty reductive way. You aren't tasked with predicting how a player would use a card like the Fates, or the long term outcome of gaining a nemesis from the Rogue card, but gaining access to the Fates card would be weal, and gaining a new enemy would be woe. Whether Augury is cast or the card is actually drawn you're essentially answering the same question as a DM: "What would happen if xyz card was drawn right now?". Augury just gives that answer in the form of "good stuff", "bad stuff", "good and bad stuff" or "nothing".
You raise some great and thought-provoking points which cause me to reassess.
Augury (if allowed to check cards without activating them) gives an open door for the party cleric to rapidly gain all/many of the buffs provided by the deck which, with a 22 card deck, are many. Every day the cleric would individually gain another chance of acquiring another personal buff.
... Your cleric would get, ability to "single-handedly defeat the next hostile monster or group of monsters you encounter + experience points enough to gain one level", ability "to avoid or erase one event as if it never happened... at any ... time before you die", "Twenty-five pieces of jewelry worth 2,000 gp each or fifty gems worth 1,000 gp each", "10,000 XP", "A rare or rarer magic weapon with which you are proficient appears in your hands", "the service of a 4th-level fighter", "the ability to cast the wish spell 1d3 times", ability to"summon an avatar of death*", +2 to "one of your ability scores by 2" even to "exceed 20", another "50,000 XP, and a wondrous item", "proficiency in the Persuasion skill, and you double your proficiency bonus on checks made with that skill" and "rightful ownership of a small keep somewhere in the world", ability "within one year of drawing this card, [to] ask a question in meditation and mentally receive a truthful answer to that question." ...
For the DM, the good thing about this is the predictability of one way traffic. Unless other party members are going to risk picking from a deck from which the cleric is progressively taking the good cards, the DM only needs to prepare for the good outcomes from the deck.
For the party, the potentially bad thing about this is the party imbalance that may develop as the cleric gains the various buffs which, if the campaign has a period of downtime, could develop quickly. Clerics are typically strong but, if the player is weak, providing a deck of many things (with a favourable interpretation of what it takes to check the cards) could be a way to greatly strengthen the cleric. In other cases, resultant party imbalance could be a negative factor for the gameplay of some parties.
If a DM rules that there can be formulations of Decks of Many Things that allow a deck's cards to be checked without the cards' magic being activated, then the logical implications for worldbuilding would be catastrophic.
The Deck of Many Things is an item that is intended to be used to facilitate a mechanic of chance and yet, by this interpretation, there would be huge implications for world-building.
Given the 5e programme of xp based Character Advancement and some starter augury scrolls, it would take:
1 successful pull of the jester card to get a cleric to 4th level (and 400xp from 5th); a total of 3 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 6th level; a total of 5 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 7th level; a total of 9 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 8th level; a total of 13 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 9th level; a total of 20 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 10th level; a total of 28 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 11th level; a total of 38 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 12th level; a total of 50 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 13th level; a total of 64 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 14th level; a total of 81 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 15th level; a total of 100 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 16th level; a total of 123 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 17th level; a total of 149 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 18th level; a total of 180 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 19th level; and a total of 215 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 20th level.
This would be a world where there would be nothing as valuable as a Deck of Many things that's been denuded its two final things.
If a Deck of Many Things becomes available in a territory then, all it would need to do to gain supreme power, all they'd need to do would be to train/enable people to to read initial augury spells and their clerics, divine soul sorcerers and oath of the sea paladins could reach 20th level. If the hack also worked with multi-classing then, one way or another, level 3 cleric/level 17 anything else might easily be possible.
If a deck was found, arch-clerics and suchlike might never let the deck get taken on things like "adventures" for legitimate fear that the deck would be lost. If enemies captured the deck it could be game over. Any nation with a deck could become unassailable in the time it would take to train people to read cleric scrolls plus a year or two.
If a DM rules that there can be formulations of Decks of Many Things that allow a deck's cards to be checked without the cards' magic being activated, then the logical implications for worldbuilding would be catastrophic.
The Deck of Many Things is an item that is intended to be used to facilitate a mechanic of chance and yet, by this interpretation, there would be huge implications for world-building.
Given the 5e programme of xp based Character Advancement and some starter augury scrolls, it would take:
1 successful pull of the jester card to get a cleric to 4th level (and 400xp from 5th); a total of 3 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 6th level; a total of 5 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 7th level; a total of 9 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 8th level; a total of 13 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 9th level; a total of 20 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 10th level; a total of 28 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 11th level; a total of 38 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 12th level; a total of 50 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 13th level; a total of 64 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 14th level; a total of 81 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 15th level; a total of 100 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 16th level; a total of 123 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 17th level; a total of 149 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 18th level; a total of 180 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 19th level; and a total of 215 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 20th level.
This would be a world where there would be nothing as valuable as a Deck of Many things that's been denuded its two final things.
If a Deck of Many Things becomes available in a territory then, all it would need to do to gain supreme power, all they'd need to do would be to train/enable people to to read initial augury spells and their clerics, divine soul sorcerers and oath of the sea paladins could reach 20th level. If the hack also worked with multi-classing then, one way or another, level 3 cleric/level 17 anything else might easily be possible.
If a deck was found, arch-clerics and suchlike might never let the deck get taken on things like "adventures" for legitimate fear that the deck would be lost. If enemies captured the deck it could be game over. Any nation with a deck could become unassailable in the time it would take to train people to read cleric scrolls plus a year or two.
You've neglected how this would take over four years in-game to pull off (per person). A lot can happen in that time, and with XP level progression, the party should never be more than a level or two behind the person who's checking the Deck of Many Things every day. As such, using Augury on the Deck of Many Things isn't going to break the world.
Ex: If your setting has only one Deck of Many Things, every country will have spies in the others looking for it, so the deck will have to be kept secret, and if L20 soldiers start popping up, the other countries will focus their attention there, and that country will have a lot more to worry about from hostile neighbors. The Deck can even end up in the party's hands because it was recently stolen, and the spy/thief was killed before making it back to his/her benefactors. You can work it into the story so nothing is broken.
In a 22 card deck, there's an average of at least 11 days to get the Jester the first time with Augury. And after you've drawn all of the good cards, the Jester is still just one of 12 remaining cards. That means it will take an average of 7 days from that point onward to find the Jester card again, each time.
And really, if you give the Deck of Many Things to a L3 party as a DM, with all of the other things the Deck can do, you absolutely invited the increased difficulty on yourself, regardless of if divination magic works on the Deck of Many Things. That's what the Deck of Many Things does, and it's only in a game if the DM puts it in. Augury just lets a character avoid an unceremonious end that might ruin the game for them. (Ex: A wizard having his Intelligence cut by 5 would absolutely, and utterly neuter the character's ability to function in combat. Lowering their save DCs and spell attack bonuses by 3 would render the character mechanically unplayable).
If a DM is worried about what the Deck of Many Things can do, that DM shouldn't put it in the game at all. It's like putting the Tarasque in your game. Once it's there, you have to be ready for the game to end shortly, in one way or another, and you as the DM are the only one with the power to determine if either of those appear in the game or not.
If a DM rules that there can be formulations of Decks of Many Things that allow a deck's cards to be checked without the cards' magic being activated, then the logical implications for worldbuilding would be catastrophic.
The Deck of Many Things is an item that is intended to be used to facilitate a mechanic of chance and yet, by this interpretation, there would be huge implications for world-building.
Given the 5e programme of xp based Character Advancement and some starter augury scrolls, it would take:
1 successful pull of the jester card to get a cleric to 4th level (and 400xp from 5th); a total of 3 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 6th level; a total of 5 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 7th level; a total of 9 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 8th level; a total of 13 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 9th level; a total of 20 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 10th level; a total of 28 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 11th level; a total of 38 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 12th level; a total of 50 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 13th level; a total of 64 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 14th level; a total of 81 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 15th level; a total of 100 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 16th level; a total of 123 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 17th level; a total of 149 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 18th level; a total of 180 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 19th level; and a total of 215 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 20th level.
This would be a world where there would be nothing as valuable as a Deck of Many things that's been denuded its two final things.
If a Deck of Many Things becomes available in a territory then, all it would need to do to gain supreme power, all they'd need to do would be to train/enable people to to read initial augury spells and their clerics, divine soul sorcerers and oath of the sea paladins could reach 20th level. If the hack also worked with multi-classing then, one way or another, level 3 cleric/level 17 anything else might easily be possible.
If a deck was found, arch-clerics and suchlike might never let the deck get taken on things like "adventures" for legitimate fear that the deck would be lost. If enemies captured the deck it could be game over. Any nation with a deck could become unassailable in the time it would take to train people to read cleric scrolls plus a year or two.
You've neglected how this would take over four years in-game to pull off (per person). A lot can happen in that time, and with XP level progression, the party should never be more than a level or two behind the person who's checking the Deck of Many Things every day. As such, using Augury on the Deck of Many Things isn't going to break the world.
Think about it. 22 cards in the deck, means an average of at least 11 days to get the Jester the first time with Augury. And after you've drawn all of the good cards, the Jester is still just one of 12 remaining cards. That means it will take an average of 7 days from that point onward to find the Jester card again, each time.
And really, if you give the Deck of Many Things to a L3 party as a DM, with all of the other things the Deck can do, you absolutely invited the increased difficulty on yourself, regardless of if divination magic works on the Deck of Many Things. That's what the Deck of Many Things does, and it's only in a game if the DM puts it in. Augury just lets a character avoid an unceremonious end that might ruin the game for them. (Ex: A wizard having his Intelligence cut by 5 would absolutely, and utterly neuter the character's ability to function in combat. Lowering their save DCs and spell attack bonuses by 3 would render the character mechanically unplayable).
If a DM is worried about what the Deck of Many Things can do, that DM shouldn't put it in the game at all. It's like putting the Tarasque in your game. Once it's there, you have to be ready for the game to end shortly, in one way or another, and you as the DM are the only one with the power to determine if either of those appear in the game or not.
I neglected to mention what might happen because, from what I previously mentioned, I thought it was obvious.
But, even if the jester was just one card in 13, any number of people with augury could still gain 10,000 xp on average every 13 days.
Ye gods you blow things preposterously and unfairly out of proportion. You are big on telling DMs, quite one-sidedly and pointedly, what they need to do.
Multiple contributors have explained patiently why a combo use of the legendary Deck of Many Things with the second level Augury spell is broken, but you aren't having any of it - and then you push a narrative of a DM that can't stand a change of plans. You want to change a deck that is designed to deliver random cards to one that produces predictable results.
This is how play goes: players come up with plans of what they want to do and their hard-working DM adjudicates on how those plans may or may not work. Unlike the characters, the DM does not have divination magic to know in advance what the players' ideas might be. My suggestion would be that players either choose to mention their ideas as early as possible to get an as early as a possible response from the DM or they leave things to the drama of the moment while being prepared for whatever decision may come. Certainly, if a cleric goes into an items shop to specifically try to buy a deck of cards, it might be advised to try things like arcana checks to try to see, within the context of the world developed for them by their DM, any extent to which their plans may work.
Can a second-level, ritual cast divination spell remove capricious chance from a legendary card deck? That's a question for your DM and, in this context, I'd suggest that you might ask it of your DM. Personally, if I had been in a position to try to use Augury with the Deck, I'd hope the DM wouldn't allow a questionable option of purely positive results as it would wreck the game.
The positive deck cards are:
Comet. If you single-handedly defeat the next hostile monster or group of monsters you encounter, you gain experience points enough to gain one level. Otherwise, this card has no effect.
The Fates. Reality's fabric unravels and spins anew, allowing you to avoid or erase one event as if it never happened. You can use the card's magic as soon as you draw the card or at any other time before you die.
Gem. Twenty-five pieces of jewelry worth 2,000 gp each or fifty gems worth 1,000 gp each appear at your feet.
Jester. You gain 10,000 XP, or you can draw two additional cards beyond your declared draws.
Key. A rare or rarer magic weapon with which you are proficient appears in your hands. The GM chooses the weapon.
Knight. You gain the service of a 4th-level fighter who appears in a space you choose within 30 feet of you. The fighter is of the same race as you and serves you loyally until death, believing the fates have drawn him or her to you. You control this character.
Moon. You are granted the ability to cast the wish spell 1d3 times.
Skull. You summon an avatar of death--a ghostly humanoid skeleton clad in a tattered black robe and carrying a spectral scythe. It appears in a space of the GM's choice within 10 feet of you and attacks you, warning all others that you must win the battle alone. The avatar fights until you die or it drops to 0 hit points, whereupon it disappears. If anyone tries to help you, the helper summons its own avatar of death. A creature slain by an avatar of death can't be restored to life.
Star. Increase one of your ability scores by 2. The score can exceed 20 but can't exceed 24.
Sun. You gain 50,000 XP, and a wondrous item (which the GM determines randomly) appears in your hands.
Throne. You gain proficiency in the Persuasion skill, and you double your proficiency bonus on checks made with that skill. In addition, you gain rightful ownership of a small keep somewhere in the world. However, the keep is currently in the hands of monsters, which you must clear out before you can claim the keep as yours.
Vizier. At any time you choose within one year of drawing this card, you can ask a question in meditation and mentally receive a truthful answer to that question. Besides information, the answer helps you solve a puzzling problem or other dilemma. In other words, the knowledge comes with wisdom on how to apply it.
Personally, I think that consistent positive pulls by the party cleric would wreck the game for the cleric, the other players and DM. That's my take. A group could certainly discuss matters themselves and see if they come to a different conclusion.
By casting .., you receive an omen from an otherworldly entity about the results of a specific course of action that you plan to take within the next 30 minutes. ...
The spell doesn't take into account any possible circumstances that might change the outcome, such as the casting of additional spells or the loss or gain of a companion.
If you cast the spell two or more times before completing your next long rest, there is a cumulative 25 percent chance for each casting after the first that you get a random reading. ...
That's three cards pulled in timespan which might be as brief as three minutes and which could certainly be achieved in a couple of hours.
... You might arguably need to get another card pulled (potentially be a charmed enemy or an on deathbed ally) ...
between your own augury checks but, otherwise, you could just make pulls in different circumstances and/or at different times and secure an unlimited and game-breaking stream of positive results.
Most (75 percent) of these decks have only thirteen cards, but the rest have twenty-two.
...
Once a card is drawn, it fades from existence. Unless the card is the Fool or the Jester, the card reappears in the deck, making it possible to draw the same card twice.
The comet card presents an issue in regard have enemies pull cards between your augury checks. This is why I suggested that the enemy might potentially be charmed but it's debatable whether even this would prevent the magic from working. Once the comet card is gone then enemies could be forced to pull cards to less concern for the party.
I don't think a playable interpretation of the deck would work if the next card to be picked is fixed. If that were the case, augury could be cast to pick all the good cards while enemies could more cleanly be forced, tricked or charmed into picking the bad cards.
... can the card even be checked without revealing the card? I think that early on in the casting time of the spell the caster could be informed if the checking of the card would also cause a releasing of its magic.
Even if players are dumb enough not to attempt arcana etc. checks to see if a check of a legendary deck could work, at a minimum I'd personally still give notification on the mechanics before any magic activated. Other DMs might not be so lenient. The cleric would be making a check on the content of a magic activating card.
If however, a group was happy for the deck to be broken, then you could say that the next card to be pulled would be fixed. All the good results could go to your cleric while all negative results could go to enemies.
Your cleric would get, ability to "single-handedly defeat the next hostile monster or group of monsters you encounter + experience points enough to gain one level", ability "to avoid or erase one event as if it never happened... at any ... time before you die", "Twenty-five pieces of jewelry worth 2,000 gp each or fifty gems worth 1,000 gp each", "10,000 XP", "A rare or rarer magic weapon with which you are proficient appears in your hands", "the service of a 4th-level fighter", "the ability to cast the wish spell 1d3 times", ability to"summon an avatar of death*", +2 to "one of your ability scores by 2" even to "exceed 20", another "50,000 XP, and a wondrous item", "proficiency in the Persuasion skill, and you double your proficiency bonus on checks made with that skill" and "rightful ownership of a small keep somewhere in the world", ability "within one year of drawing this card, [to] ask a question in meditation and mentally receive a truthful answer to that question." If a party is happy to have a group that becomes incredibly unbalanced, fine. Otherwise, I pity the potentially "railroad" type DM that then has to try to balance this mess. Alternatively, it might be manageable for the cleric to split off and join another group.
Getting through the other cards would be easy in many a situation where the progress of a nation was concerned. Find an aged parent or uncle on their death bed and offer great reward to their family if they pick surplus cards from the pack. Easy.
Perhaps not so easy would be the challenge for coming up with a justification for a party member to continue adventuring when they had a goldmine of an item at their disposal which offered a safe route to personal progression and riches. Perhaps the cleric is a hot-headed, low-wisdom, impatient moron but, otherwise, there could be little justification for adventuring.
Back on the topic of a DM's logical worldbuilding, other factions that managed things more logically would become superpowers where everyone capable of becoming a baseline cleric would reach level 20.
I neglected to mention what might happen because, from what I previously mentioned, I thought it was obvious.
But, even if the jester was just one card in 13, any number of people with augury could still gain 10,000 xp on average every 13 days.
Too long to wait to gain that xp?
Getting through the other cards would be easy in many a situation where the progress of a nation was concerned. Find an aged parent or uncle on their death bed and offer great reward to their family if they pick surplus cards from the pack. Easy.
Perhaps not so easy would be the challenge for coming up with a justification for a party member to continue adventuring when they had a goldmine of an item at their disposal which offered a safe route to personal progression and riches. Perhaps the cleric is a hot-headed, low-wisdom, impatient moron but, otherwise, there could be little justification for adventuring.
Back on the topic of a DM's logical worldbuilding, other factions that managed things more logically would become superpowers where everyone capable of becoming a baseline cleric would reach level 20.
If your world has one Deck of Many Things in it, every country will be vying for it, and they'll have spies all over looking for it. The best defense for the deck would be secrecy, which means they're not turning a peasant into L20 warriors every half-decade. And the more people they permit to use the Deck, the higher the likelihood of it being discovered and stolen. The Deck could even fall into the party's hands because it was recently stolen by a spy who died before making it back to his country. Your characters now have the plot point that they have something in their possession that all of the surrounding countries would kill for. Your assessment isn't taking into account the other variables that would come into play that prevent this basic spell from breaking the world.
I believe the scenario I described would be much more interesting and fun for the players than your removing the utility of a spell that already does only one thing would be. Part of being a DM is looking for solutions. It's typically more fun for everyone to "yes, and..." instead of, "no, because", especially when the proposed action is compliant with the rules as written.
I neglected to mention what might happen because, from what I previously mentioned, I thought it was obvious.
But, even if the jester was just one card in 13, any number of people with augury could still gain 10,000 xp on average every 13 days.
Too long to wait to gain that xp?
Getting through the other cards would be easy in many a situation where the progress of a nation was concerned. Find an aged parent or uncle on their death bed and offer great reward to their family if they pick surplus cards from the pack. Easy.
Perhaps not so easy would be the challenge for coming up with a justification for a party member to continue adventuring when they had a goldmine of an item at their disposal which offered a safe route to personal progression and riches. Perhaps the cleric is a hot-headed, low-wisdom, impatient moron but, otherwise, there could be little justification for adventuring.
Back on the topic of a DM's logical worldbuilding, other factions that managed things more logically would become superpowers where everyone capable of becoming a baseline cleric would reach level 20.
If your world has one Deck of Many Things in it, every country will be vying for it, and they'll have spies all over looking for it. The best defense for the deck would be secrecy, which means they're not turning a peasant into L20 warriors every half-decade. And the more people they permit to use the Deck, the higher the likelihood of it being discovered and stolen. The Deck could even fall into the party's hands because it was recently stolen by a spy who died before making it back to his country. Your characters now have the plot point that they have something in their possession that all of the surrounding countries would kill for. Your assessment isn't taking into account the other variables that would come into play that prevent this basic spell from breaking the world.
I believe the scenario I described would be much more interesting and fun for the players than your removing the utility of a spell that already does only one thing would be. Part of being a DM is looking for solutions. It's typically more fun for everyone to "yes, and..." instead of, "no, because", especially when the proposed action is compliant with the rules as written.
There would also be inflation from the piles of gems and other items produced.
No there wouldn't. The only cards that return to the deck are one that gives experience, and one that takes experience away. And on the Elemental Plane of Earth, there's already an entire realm of diamonds, so 50,000gp worth of gemstones isn't going to create significant inflation. The same goes for the couple magic items that can be drawn from the Deck.
The Deck of Many Things is an item that is intended to be used to facilitate a mechanic of chance and yet, by this interpretation, there would be huge implications for world-building.
Given the 5e programme of xp based Character Advancement and some starter augury scrolls, it would take:
1 successful pull of the jester card to get a cleric to 4th level (and 400xp from 5th); a total of 3 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 6th level; a total of 5 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 7th level; a total of 9 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 8th level; a total of 13 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 9th level; a total of 20 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 10th level; a total of 28 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 11th level; a total of 38 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 12th level; a total of 50 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 13th level; a total of 64 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 14th level; a total of 81 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 15th level; a total of 100 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 16th level; a total of 123 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 17th level; a total of 149 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 18th level; a total of 180 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 19th level; and a total of 215 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 20th level.
This would be a world where there would be nothing as valuable as a Deck of Many things that's been denuded its two final things.
If a Deck of Many Things becomes available in a territory then, all it would need to do to gain supreme power, all they'd need to do would be to train/enable people to to read initial augury spells and their clerics, divine soul sorcerers and oath of the sea paladins could reach 20th level. If the hack also worked with multi-classing then, one way or another, level 3 cleric/level 17 anything else might easily be possible.
If a deck was found, arch-clerics and suchlike might never let the deck get taken on things like "adventures" for legitimate fear that the deck would be lost. If enemies captured the deck it could be game over. Any nation with a deck could become unassailable in the time it would take to train people to read cleric scrolls plus a year or two.
If a DM rules that there can be formulations of Decks of Many Things that allow a deck's cards to be checked without the cards' magic being activated, then the logical implications for worldbuilding would be catastrophic.
I neglected to mention what might happen because, from what I previously mentioned, I thought it was obvious.
But, even if the jester was just one card in 13, any number of people with augury could still gain 10,000 xp on average every 13 days.
Too long to wait to gain that xp?
Getting through the other cards would be easy in many a situation where the progress of a nation was concerned. Find an aged parent or uncle on their death bed and offer great reward to their family if they pick surplus cards from the pack. Easy.
Perhaps not so easy would be the challenge for coming up with a justification for a party member to continue adventuring when they had a goldmine of an item at their disposal which offered a safe route to personal progression and riches. Perhaps the cleric is a hot-headed, low-wisdom, impatient moron but, otherwise, there could be little justification for adventuring.
Back on the topic of a DM's logical worldbuilding, other factions that managed things more logically would become superpowers where everyone capable of becoming a baseline cleric would reach level 20.
If your world has one Deck of Many Things in it, every country will be vying for it, and they'll have spies all over looking for it. The best defense for the deck would be secrecy, which means they're not turning a peasant into L20 warriors every half-decade. And the more people they permit to use the Deck, the higher the likelihood of it being discovered and stolen. The Deck could even fall into the party's hands because it was recently stolen by a spy who died before making it back to his country. Your characters now have the plot point that they have something in their possession that all of the surrounding countries would kill for. Your assessment isn't taking into account the other variables that would come into play that prevent this basic spell from breaking the world.
I believe the scenario I described would be much more interesting and fun for the players than your removing the utility of a spell that already does only one thing would be. Part of being a DM is looking for solutions. It's typically more fun for everyone to "yes, and..." instead of, "no, because", especially when the proposed action is compliant with the rules as written.
There would also be inflation from the piles of gems and other items produced.
No there wouldn't. The only cards that return to the deck are one that gives experience, and one that takes experience away. And on the Elemental Plane of Earth, there's already an entire realm of diamonds, so 50,000gp worth of gemstones isn't going to create significant inflation. The same goes for the couple magic items that can be drawn from the Deck.
If they can get people to, for instance. cleric3/wizard17 they can wish for valuable items up until checks are failed. Other casters can use locate... and other spells to acquire valuable items.
Comet: Aurgury would yield the "Nothing" response, because drawing the card has no effect apart from the consequences of a future conflict, which the card didn't cause, and the question about pulling the card doesn't take into account how a fight might go.
The Fates: Augury would yield the "weal" response because having the ability to undo a past mistake, or to prevent a bad thing from happening is a boon for the recipient, and the card doesn't take into account the character's future decisions on what to do with that power.
Jester: Augury would yield the "weal" response because gaining Xp is a boon, and the character has the option to draw additional cards, but is under no obligation to do so. The decision to draw or not draw additional cards is a variable that Augury doesn't account for, and it doesn't affect the result from the spell.
Key: If a non-cursed weapon is received, Augury would yield the "weal" response. If the weapon is cursed, it would yield either a "woe" or a "weal and woe" response. The DM would secretly determine what magic item appears at the time of the casting of the spell to be able to give the 100% accurate answer the spell specifically says it gives.
Moon: Augury would yield the "weal" response, because gaining the ability to cast wish is a boon, and the spell does not take into account variables like what the character decides to wish for.
Sun: Augury would yield the "weal" response if the magic item is not cursed, or the "weal and woe" response if the magic item is cursed, because even with the nevative of a curse, gaining a large amount of Xp is still a boon. The DM would secretly determine what magic item appears at the time of the casting of the spell to be able to give the 100% accurate answer the spell specifically says it gives.
Throne: Augury would yield the "weal" response, because gaining an expertise is a boon, and ownership of a keep is a boon. The spell doesn't take into account variables like combat, and the character is under no obligation to claim the keep, so even if the reward were Castle Ravenloft, it's still not a bane unless that ownership of the castle results in Srahd pulling you into Barovia to consume you body and soul.
You're really stretching to lawyer yourself around things that are obvious. You're adding variables that aren't in the calculation for Augury's results. You're making these arguments in regards to the Deck of Many Things, but your arguments could be applied to literally all uses of Augury under any circumstance, making it utterly useless in all scenarios. If you're going to do that, you might as well ban it from your table up front in session zero to avoid the trouble. That would at least be fair to the players instead of letting them take the spell, then never letting it work in situations where the player was counting on it.
This question is a moot point if the party is already in possession of the item. The party can simply forgo casting Augury and draw any number of cards immediately. Augury does not put the DM in a more difficult position than the Deck already has; the DM already needs an answer to all of the listed scenarios as well as the other cards in the Deck regardless of whether or not the party can even cast Augury or chooses to do so. If you have added the Deck to your campaign as a DM and you cannot answer what happens when a card is drawn, then you have already failed to prepare. For every situation in which you think Augury makes things more difficult for the DM, how would the party spontaneously drawing a card(or multiple cards) be any easier? Being a DM can be brutal enough spending time and energy not only on what the party experiences, but on every situation that they do not pursue and every interaction that does come to fruition. The Deck makes that a nightmare, not how the players interact with the Deck.
Augury as a spell is pretty clearly defined with what it can accomplish and what its limitations are; it does not have the potential to "break" a campaign or an interaction with an entity or item, or at least it shouldn't if it is followed as-written. The Deck is not meant for a vast majority of campaigns, and Augury is neither a way to "beat" the Deck nor is it an over-powered or problematic spell. If you can use Counterspell at 3rd level to nullify anything up to and including 9th level spells, you can certainly use Augury to gain vague knowledge about an action you take involving an item already in your possession. Casting Augury on the Deck is not any more problematic than drawing a card; the issue here is that the Deck is just bonkers to deal with in any "what if" scenario, and that can feel unfair or unreasonable to both players and the DM.
Edited to add the following
Scenario 1(party casts Augury):
"So, hypothetically speaking, would it be good or bad for me if I drew a card from the deck right now?"
Scenario 2(party does not cast Augury):
"I draw a card from the deck right now."
The DM is faced with either the actual consequences of whatever card is drawn, or describing them in a pretty reductive way. You aren't tasked with predicting how a player would use a card like the Fates, or the long term outcome of gaining a nemesis from the Rogue card, but gaining access to the Fates card would be weal, and gaining a new enemy would be woe. Whether Augury is cast or the card is actually drawn you're essentially answering the same question as a DM: "What would happen if xyz card was drawn right now?". Augury just gives that answer in the form of "good stuff", "bad stuff", "good and bad stuff" or "nothing".
You raise some great and thought-provoking points which cause me to reassess.
Augury (if allowed to check cards without activating them) gives an open door for the party cleric to rapidly gain all/many of the buffs provided by the deck which, with a 22 card deck, are many. Every day the cleric would individually gain another chance of acquiring another personal buff.
For the DM, the good thing about this is the predictability of one way traffic. Unless other party members are going to risk picking from a deck from which the cleric is progressively taking the good cards, the DM only needs to prepare for the good outcomes from the deck.
For the party, the potentially bad thing about this is the party imbalance that may develop as the cleric gains the various buffs which, if the campaign has a period of downtime, could develop quickly. Clerics are typically strong but, if the player is weak, providing a deck of many things (with a favourable interpretation of what it takes to check the cards) could be a way to greatly strengthen the cleric. In other cases, resultant party imbalance could be a negative factor for the gameplay of some parties.
If a DM rules that there can be formulations of Decks of Many Things that allow a deck's cards to be checked without the cards' magic being activated, then the logical implications for worldbuilding would be catastrophic.
The Deck of Many Things is an item that is intended to be used to facilitate a mechanic of chance and yet, by this interpretation, there would be huge implications for world-building.
Given the 5e programme of xp based Character Advancement and some starter augury scrolls, it would take:
1 successful pull of the jester card to get a cleric to 4th level (and 400xp from 5th);
a total of 3 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 6th level;
a total of 5 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 7th level;
a total of 9 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 8th level;
a total of 13 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 9th level;
a total of 20 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 10th level;
a total of 28 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 11th level;
a total of 38 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 12th level;
a total of 50 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 13th level;
a total of 64 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 14th level;
a total of 81 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 15th level;
a total of 100 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 16th level;
a total of 123 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 17th level;
a total of 149 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 18th level;
a total of 180 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 19th level;
and a total of 215 successful pulls of the jester card to get a cleric to 20th level.
This would be a world where there would be nothing as valuable as a Deck of Many things that's been denuded its two final things.
If a Deck of Many Things becomes available in a territory then, all it would need to do to gain supreme power, all they'd need to do would be to train/enable people to to read initial augury spells and their clerics, divine soul sorcerers and oath of the sea paladins could reach 20th level. If the hack also worked with multi-classing then, one way or another, level 3 cleric/level 17 anything else might easily be possible.
If a deck was found, arch-clerics and suchlike might never let the deck get taken on things like "adventures" for legitimate fear that the deck would be lost. If enemies captured the deck it could be game over. Any nation with a deck could become unassailable in the time it would take to train people to read cleric scrolls plus a year or two.
You've neglected how this would take over four years in-game to pull off (per person). A lot can happen in that time, and with XP level progression, the party should never be more than a level or two behind the person who's checking the Deck of Many Things every day. As such, using Augury on the Deck of Many Things isn't going to break the world.
Ex: If your setting has only one Deck of Many Things, every country will have spies in the others looking for it, so the deck will have to be kept secret, and if L20 soldiers start popping up, the other countries will focus their attention there, and that country will have a lot more to worry about from hostile neighbors. The Deck can even end up in the party's hands because it was recently stolen, and the spy/thief was killed before making it back to his/her benefactors. You can work it into the story so nothing is broken.
In a 22 card deck, there's an average of at least 11 days to get the Jester the first time with Augury. And after you've drawn all of the good cards, the Jester is still just one of 12 remaining cards. That means it will take an average of 7 days from that point onward to find the Jester card again, each time.
And really, if you give the Deck of Many Things to a L3 party as a DM, with all of the other things the Deck can do, you absolutely invited the increased difficulty on yourself, regardless of if divination magic works on the Deck of Many Things. That's what the Deck of Many Things does, and it's only in a game if the DM puts it in. Augury just lets a character avoid an unceremonious end that might ruin the game for them. (Ex: A wizard having his Intelligence cut by 5 would absolutely, and utterly neuter the character's ability to function in combat. Lowering their save DCs and spell attack bonuses by 3 would render the character mechanically unplayable).
If a DM is worried about what the Deck of Many Things can do, that DM shouldn't put it in the game at all. It's like putting the Tarasque in your game. Once it's there, you have to be ready for the game to end shortly, in one way or another, and you as the DM are the only one with the power to determine if either of those appear in the game or not.
I neglected to mention what might happen because, from what I previously mentioned, I thought it was obvious.
But, even if the jester was just one card in 13, any number of people with augury could still gain 10,000 xp on average every 13 days.
Too long to wait to gain that xp?
Getting through the other cards would be easy in many a situation where the progress of a nation was concerned. Find an aged parent or uncle on their death bed and offer great reward to their family if they pick surplus cards from the pack. Easy.
Perhaps not so easy would be the challenge for coming up with a justification for a party member to continue adventuring when they had a goldmine of an item at their disposal which offered a safe route to personal progression and riches. Perhaps the cleric is a hot-headed, low-wisdom, impatient moron but, otherwise, there could be little justification for adventuring.
Back on the topic of a DM's logical worldbuilding, other factions that managed things more logically would become superpowers where everyone capable of becoming a baseline cleric would reach level 20.
If your world has one Deck of Many Things in it, every country will be vying for it, and they'll have spies all over looking for it. The best defense for the deck would be secrecy, which means they're not turning a peasant into L20 warriors every half-decade. And the more people they permit to use the Deck, the higher the likelihood of it being discovered and stolen. The Deck could even fall into the party's hands because it was recently stolen by a spy who died before making it back to his country. Your characters now have the plot point that they have something in their possession that all of the surrounding countries would kill for. Your assessment isn't taking into account the other variables that would come into play that prevent this basic spell from breaking the world.
I believe the scenario I described would be much more interesting and fun for the players than your removing the utility of a spell that already does only one thing would be. Part of being a DM is looking for solutions. It's typically more fun for everyone to "yes, and..." instead of, "no, because", especially when the proposed action is compliant with the rules as written.
No there wouldn't. The only cards that return to the deck are one that gives experience, and one that takes experience away. And on the Elemental Plane of Earth, there's already an entire realm of diamonds, so 50,000gp worth of gemstones isn't going to create significant inflation. The same goes for the couple magic items that can be drawn from the Deck.
If they can get people to, for instance. cleric3/wizard17 they can wish for valuable items up until checks are failed. Other casters can use locate... and other spells to acquire valuable items.
All it would take is one deck. T he augury casters could then just join the card flipping queue.