Now, the hypothetical (For the purposes of this hypothetical vulnerability, resistance and immunity do not apply):
A Tiefling (spellcaster) with the aforementioned feats casts Fireball causing 8d6Fire Damage. The roll is as follows [2, 5, 6, 6, 2, 1, 3, 1] for 26 points of Fire Damage.
Question:
Do the rules specify which option the Player has when using their feats for this situation?
OPTION 1:
The Player can chooseeither the Elemental Adept (Fire) feature to treat the previously rolled 1s as 2s or the Flames of Phlegethos feature to reroll the 1s.
OPTION 2:
The Player can choose the Flames of Phlegethos feature to reroll the 1s and IF those rerolls end up being 1s use the Elemental Adept (Fire) feature to then have those 1's be treated as 2s.
Assuming no official rule exists regarding this how would you rule?
I would rule Option 2. Sinking two feats into something like this is a high price for a small benefit.
On a roll of 6d6 (avg 21), that represents about a 2.3% improvement over using F.o.P. alone. The biggest benefit is really just avoiding really bad damage rolls.
Option 2. You must use the rerolled 1s, but you still get to treat all 1s as 2s. There isn't a conflict there, as you are still technically using the 1s.
Now, the hypothetical (For the purposes of this hypothetical vulnerability, resistance and immunity do not apply):
A Tiefling (spellcaster) with the aforementioned feats casts Fireball causing 8d6Fire Damage. The roll is as follows [2, 5, 6, 6, 2, 1, 3, 1] for 26 points of Fire Damage.
Question:
Do the rules specify which option the Player has when using their feats for this situation?
OPTION 1:
The Player can chooseeither the Elemental Adept (Fire) feature to treat the previously rolled 1s as 2s or the Flames of Phlegethos feature to reroll the 1s.
OPTION 2:
The Player can choose the Flames of Phlegethos feature to reroll the 1s and IF those rerolls end up being 1s use the Elemental Adept (Fire) feature to then have those 1's be treated as 2s.
Assuming no official rule exists regarding this how would you rule?
Thanks!
It's option 2, as others have stated. But the benefit is also minimal, as Memnosyne stated. In the case of Fireball, assuming your target makes their save half the time, the average results are:
Base: 20.875
Elemental Adept: 21.875 (+1/+4.79%)
Flames of Phlegethos: 23.375 (+2.5/+11.98%)
Both: 23.542 (+2.67/+12.78%)
So from a balance perspective, there's also no harm in letting them stack.
In general feats should not stack, it tends to create possible abuses. One of the problems we had back in 3rd edition. I would therefore require them to use option #1.
That said this particular example is not abusive, but I would insist anyway on principle. Best for players to understand from the getgo not to try and combine feats for a side benefit.
On a side note, Flames is better, unless the damage is 1d2. Clearly, given a choice you should almost always take reroll.
There’s no reason game features shouldn’t be able to interact with one another. It adds depth to the game and promotes creativity.
I Don’t think regarding all feature interactions that weren’t immediately apparent as abuse is a healthy way to promote gameplay or more importantly teamwork in this cooperative roleplaying game.
Hello all!
For this thread I am specifically asking about a situation regarding Elemental Adept (Fire) and Flames of Phlegethos.
Now, the hypothetical (For the purposes of this hypothetical vulnerability, resistance and immunity do not apply):
A Tiefling (spellcaster) with the aforementioned feats casts Fireball causing 8d6 Fire Damage. The roll is as follows [2, 5, 6, 6, 2, 1, 3, 1] for 26 points of Fire Damage.
Question:
Do the rules specify which option the Player has when using their feats for this situation?
OPTION 1:
The Player can choose either the Elemental Adept (Fire) feature to treat the previously rolled 1s as 2s or the Flames of Phlegethos feature to reroll the 1s.
OPTION 2:
The Player can choose the Flames of Phlegethos feature to reroll the 1s and IF those rerolls end up being 1s use the Elemental Adept (Fire) feature to then have those 1's be treated as 2s.
Assuming no official rule exists regarding this how would you rule?
Thanks!
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Homebrew| Bard: College of Composition
Feedback Appreciated!
I would rule Option 2. Sinking two feats into something like this is a high price for a small benefit.
On a roll of 6d6 (avg 21), that represents about a 2.3% improvement over using F.o.P. alone. The biggest benefit is really just avoiding really bad damage rolls.
Option 2. You must use the rerolled 1s, but you still get to treat all 1s as 2s. There isn't a conflict there, as you are still technically using the 1s.
It's option 2, as others have stated. But the benefit is also minimal, as Memnosyne stated. In the case of Fireball, assuming your target makes their save half the time, the average results are:
So from a balance perspective, there's also no harm in letting them stack.
Option 2 since nothing prevent you from rerolling 1's and then treating any rerolled 1 as 2.
In general feats should not stack, it tends to create possible abuses. One of the problems we had back in 3rd edition. I would therefore require them to use option #1.
That said this particular example is not abusive, but I would insist anyway on principle. Best for players to understand from the getgo not to try and combine feats for a side benefit.
On a side note, Flames is better, unless the damage is 1d2. Clearly, given a choice you should almost always take reroll.
There’s no reason game features shouldn’t be able to interact with one another. It adds depth to the game and promotes creativity.
I Don’t think regarding all feature interactions that weren’t immediately apparent as abuse is a healthy way to promote gameplay or more importantly teamwork in this cooperative roleplaying game.
It's the other way around, in general, everything should stack unless they're same named game element. That's how synergy thrives!