In our group we finally started to play downtime activities (which is super fun in my opinion) and during the first few discussions we are found topics which are open for interpretation. One of them is what can and cannot be used to boost downtime activity roll? Shopping for magic items and ingridiments are no longer just buying stuff but suddenly became something more interesting.
So our debate is the following: Rad (our socially gifted arcane trickster with +10 persuasion) staring his work to round up some magical materials in Stormreach (therefore he spends 1 week and 100g for the search) for making an uncommon magic item (Boots of elvenkind) and our artificer Zipy is going with him to support him finding the right materials. Can Zipy use his Flash of genius or other (party member a portent) to boost Rad's persuasion roll?
Flash of genius is universal for ability checks and for various situations, but it requires a reaction... I would say it can be applied as it has multiple daily uses.
I don't see why Portent or Flash of Genius couldn't be used during downtime activities that involve any ability checks if the criteria to use those abilities are met.
That checks out, based on how downtime activities are structured. The default rules are designed for simplicity - one check represents hours or even days of work, but it is still a single check and can be interacted with by features like Flash of Genius. If that doesn't sit right with your table, you can homebrew a more complex version with multiple checks. I sometimes do this for a particularly special downtime activity.
I would argue that the Divination Wizard needs to be actually participating in the downtime activity as well if he wants to contribute a Portent. He can't be off doing a separate activity and just casually pass his Portent over when Rad makes his roll.
I would argue that the Divination Wizard needs to be actually participating in the downtime activity as well if he wants to contribute a Portent. He can't be off doing a separate activity and just casually pass his Portent over when Rad makes his roll.
I would also say the wizard can't cycle through a bunch of Portent rolls (new day, so I just had a long rest...) to get one they like before using it
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I would argue that the Divination Wizard needs to be actually participating in the downtime activity as well if he wants to contribute a Portent.
The Diviner needs to see the creature that makes the ability check to replace it with Portent.
For sure - I can just see the Wizard arguing that he wants to do his own thing for 95% of the downtime, and simply take a 10 minute break to meet up with the Rogue and deliver the Portent at the meta-moment the roll is actually made.
If a check is supposed to represent activity done over a long period of time, then I would want the wizard to have vision of their target for the duration of the check/activity.
Since the whole process is so abstract, I think there's a pretty high amount of wiggle room on the DM's part as to how hard they enforce things like that.
To all regarding portent and flash of genius, all activities are full time activities. So either the artificer or divination wizard would/will spend the whole week with the arcane trickster to help him chasing materials so they can help. No other downtime activity.
I would argue that the Divination Wizard needs to be actually participating in the downtime activity as well if he wants to contribute a Portent. He can't be off doing a separate activity and just casually pass his Portent over when Rad makes his roll.
I would also say the wizard can't cycle through a bunch of Portent rolls (new day, so I just had a long rest...) to get one they like before using it
These are both mechanical limitations a DM might want to place on the wizard and the downtime activity ... but are they consistent with either the RAW or the lore of the ability?
Portent represents the wizard forseeing the result of a certain event. The wizard doesn't actually need to be involved in the activity at all except to be present at the moment when success or failure is determined.
"PORTENT Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn. Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls."
In addition, the wizard could wait until they have a good feeling about the success of the activity ... i.e. wait to roll a good portent die .. before letting the other character know that today would be a good day to wrap up their activity.
Portent is a weird cross between the character view of the world and the game mechanics. Character wise, the character gets glimpses of how things might turn out. Mechanically, the player decides which result they saw by substituting the portent die before the die to resolve the action is made.
Anyway, if a DM wants to restrict the use of portent for downtime activities, the easy way is to require multiple skill checks for more complex or demanding activities so that portent can help but not guarantee success.
As for Flash of Genius - I'd say it is treated similarly but instead of 2 or 3 portents - you get up to intelligence modifier/day uses where your int modifier can be applied to a die roll.
"You've gained the ability to come up with solutions under pressure. When you or another creature you can see within 30 feet of you makes an ability check or a saving throw, you can use your reaction to add your Intelligence modifier to the roll. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest."
The artificer does need to be present when the activity is resolved but may not need to be present for the entire downtime activity. Whether they need to be present the whole time would be up to the DM and likely depend on the nature of the downtime activity and whether the skill check represents resolution of a critical step or a cumulative result for a long period of work. In either case, from a fluff perspective, the artificer might have to be present while the wizard may have just forseen how the events will turn out.
In addition, the wizard could wait until they have a good feeling about the success of the activity ... i.e. wait to roll a good portent die .. before letting the other character know that today would be a good day to wrap up their activity.
Why would the day the activity needs to be wrapped up be something in their control?
If as a DM, I tell a player their downtime activity takes two weeks, and the divination wizard wants to roll Portents 14 times and use the 14th set on the activity, OK, sure, go ahead. But if they roll four times and get a set with a 20 and want to keep it... nope, sorry
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Honestly, a divination wizard should be wealthy anyway. You know the old conodrum - anyone that can really talk to the dead/read minds/etc. should be so wealthy they do not charge for their services.
In addition, the wizard could wait until they have a good feeling about the success of the activity ... i.e. wait to roll a good portent die .. before letting the other character know that today would be a good day to wrap up their activity.
Why would the day the activity needs to be wrapped up be something in their control?
If as a DM, I tell a player their downtime activity takes two weeks, and the divination wizard wants to roll Portents 14 times and use the 14th set on the activity, OK, sure, go ahead. But if they roll four times and get a set with a 20 and want to keep it... nope, sorry
It would depend on the DM. Typically the DM asks for DR to determine the success or failure of the specific task. A diviner wizard catches glimpses of the future represented by their portent die that can be applied to skill checks by themselves or another creature within 30'. Depending on how the DM sets up the task, all the diviner wizard needs to do is be present when the task is completed (in terms of when the DM asks for the die roll) so that they can modify the die roll to indicate the success of the task. That is what a diviner does by seeing the future.
The DM just needs to sort out how they want to run it but if the task is resolved by a single die roll indicating success or failure of a task and the task doesn't have a specific time line (like it has to finish on a particular day so the diviner is limited to only the die rolled on that day) then a diviner could certainly wait for a day with good auspices (i.e. good portent rolls) to advise their companion to complete the task. (For example, a character crafting an item might have to make a die roll to determine success or failure but the final step to completing the item could wait until the diviner has a positive vision about it).
Obviously, all of this is up to the DM and the specific task involved but I can't see why a diviner couldn't use their abilities that way.
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In our group we finally started to play downtime activities (which is super fun in my opinion) and during the first few discussions we are found topics which are open for interpretation. One of them is what can and cannot be used to boost downtime activity roll? Shopping for magic items and ingridiments are no longer just buying stuff but suddenly became something more interesting.
So our debate is the following: Rad (our socially gifted arcane trickster with +10 persuasion) staring his work to round up some magical materials in Stormreach (therefore he spends 1 week and 100g for the search) for making an uncommon magic item (Boots of elvenkind) and our artificer Zipy is going with him to support him finding the right materials. Can Zipy use his Flash of genius or other (party member a portent) to boost Rad's persuasion roll?
Flash of genius is universal for ability checks and for various situations, but it requires a reaction... I would say it can be applied as it has multiple daily uses.
How others see it? How would you play it guys?
I don't see why Portent or Flash of Genius couldn't be used during downtime activities that involve any ability checks if the criteria to use those abilities are met.
That checks out, based on how downtime activities are structured. The default rules are designed for simplicity - one check represents hours or even days of work, but it is still a single check and can be interacted with by features like Flash of Genius. If that doesn't sit right with your table, you can homebrew a more complex version with multiple checks. I sometimes do this for a particularly special downtime activity.
I would argue that the Divination Wizard needs to be actually participating in the downtime activity as well if he wants to contribute a Portent. He can't be off doing a separate activity and just casually pass his Portent over when Rad makes his roll.
I would also say the wizard can't cycle through a bunch of Portent rolls (new day, so I just had a long rest...) to get one they like before using it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The Diviner needs to see the creature that makes the ability check to replace it with Portent.
For sure - I can just see the Wizard arguing that he wants to do his own thing for 95% of the downtime, and simply take a 10 minute break to meet up with the Rogue and deliver the Portent at the meta-moment the roll is actually made.
If a check is supposed to represent activity done over a long period of time, then I would want the wizard to have vision of their target for the duration of the check/activity.
Since the whole process is so abstract, I think there's a pretty high amount of wiggle room on the DM's part as to how hard they enforce things like that.
To all regarding portent and flash of genius, all activities are full time activities. So either the artificer or divination wizard would/will spend the whole week with the arcane trickster to help him chasing materials so they can help. No other downtime activity.
These are both mechanical limitations a DM might want to place on the wizard and the downtime activity ... but are they consistent with either the RAW or the lore of the ability?
Portent represents the wizard forseeing the result of a certain event. The wizard doesn't actually need to be involved in the activity at all except to be present at the moment when success or failure is determined.
"PORTENT
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn. Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls."
In addition, the wizard could wait until they have a good feeling about the success of the activity ... i.e. wait to roll a good portent die .. before letting the other character know that today would be a good day to wrap up their activity.
Portent is a weird cross between the character view of the world and the game mechanics. Character wise, the character gets glimpses of how things might turn out. Mechanically, the player decides which result they saw by substituting the portent die before the die to resolve the action is made.
Anyway, if a DM wants to restrict the use of portent for downtime activities, the easy way is to require multiple skill checks for more complex or demanding activities so that portent can help but not guarantee success.
As for Flash of Genius - I'd say it is treated similarly but instead of 2 or 3 portents - you get up to intelligence modifier/day uses where your int modifier can be applied to a die roll.
"You've gained the ability to come up with solutions under pressure. When you or another creature you can see within 30 feet of you makes an ability check or a saving throw, you can use your reaction to add your Intelligence modifier to the roll. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest."
The artificer does need to be present when the activity is resolved but may not need to be present for the entire downtime activity. Whether they need to be present the whole time would be up to the DM and likely depend on the nature of the downtime activity and whether the skill check represents resolution of a critical step or a cumulative result for a long period of work. In either case, from a fluff perspective, the artificer might have to be present while the wizard may have just forseen how the events will turn out.
Why would the day the activity needs to be wrapped up be something in their control?
If as a DM, I tell a player their downtime activity takes two weeks, and the divination wizard wants to roll Portents 14 times and use the 14th set on the activity, OK, sure, go ahead. But if they roll four times and get a set with a 20 and want to keep it... nope, sorry
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I have also used portent to get better social rolls (wizards often trash their charisma).
Taxes, convincing another wizard to trade spells, all are ability checks.
I'd allow in, in general. Abuse Potent too much and the Gods of magic might give false readings or block the power entirely.
Honestly, a divination wizard should be wealthy anyway. You know the old conodrum - anyone that can really talk to the dead/read minds/etc. should be so wealthy they do not charge for their services.
It would depend on the DM. Typically the DM asks for DR to determine the success or failure of the specific task. A diviner wizard catches glimpses of the future represented by their portent die that can be applied to skill checks by themselves or another creature within 30'. Depending on how the DM sets up the task, all the diviner wizard needs to do is be present when the task is completed (in terms of when the DM asks for the die roll) so that they can modify the die roll to indicate the success of the task. That is what a diviner does by seeing the future.
The DM just needs to sort out how they want to run it but if the task is resolved by a single die roll indicating success or failure of a task and the task doesn't have a specific time line (like it has to finish on a particular day so the diviner is limited to only the die rolled on that day) then a diviner could certainly wait for a day with good auspices (i.e. good portent rolls) to advise their companion to complete the task. (For example, a character crafting an item might have to make a die roll to determine success or failure but the final step to completing the item could wait until the diviner has a positive vision about it).
Obviously, all of this is up to the DM and the specific task involved but I can't see why a diviner couldn't use their abilities that way.