" The stress of casting this spell to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you. After enduring that stress, each time you cast a spell until you finish a long rest, you take 1d10 necrotic damage per level of that spell. This damage can't be reduced or prevented in any way. In addition, your Strength drops to 3, if it isn't 3 or lower already, for 2d4 days. For each of those days that you spend resting and doing nothing more than light activity, your remaining recovery time decreases by 2 days. Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again if you suffer this stress."
So in the scenario let's assume the wish is a non caster using an item or being granted a use of wish.
So my friend and I read this different. He says if you use wish from a ring of three wishes or deck of many things etc there are no negative penalties for say, a fighter or thief as they aren't casting it. I say then why would any wizard cast it at all except to make it a ring. I say any PC is casting the spell through say a ring, he says it just happens they dont cast it.. So would say a fighter, using a ring of wishes, to do something extraordinary other than duplicating a spell incur the strength drop. Or incur necrotic damage and have the 33% chance?
RAW, the item states that the wielder of the item expends a charge to cast the wish spell.
However, this could fall into DM ruling territory.
Only precedent I can think up is in the creation of the item, you have to expend a spell slot of the spells level and have the components on hand every day. I see this as casting the spell, my opinion only.
From this perspective, the spell has already been cast, activating the item allows the effect of the spell to be released from the item and applied at the level(s - in the case of multi charge per spell level items) it was cast into the item with the creator's save dc, etc.
Regardless, the item still says the wielder is the person casting the spell.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
While wearing this ring, you can use an action to expend 1 of its 3 charges to cast the wish spell from it
The moon card from Deck of Many things states:
Moon. You are granted the ability to cast the wish spell 1d3 times.
Both magic items have you explicitly casting the wish spell. The stress side effects occur when you cast the spell. So yes, you absolutely are subject to the side effects of Wish. There's no wiggle room here, RAW.
That also means that if you've failed your 33% roll in the past, you cannot use these items to cast more wishes, even if they have charges left in them.
RAW, using a magic item to cast wish risks losing the ability to cast it yourself later.
I personally would change it so that as long as it is a limited thing like the Ring of Wishes you don’t risk losing it permanently, even if you do deal with the stress damage and strength loss.
While wearing this ring, you can use an action to expend 1 of its 3 charges to cast the wish spell from it
The moon card from Deck of Many things states:
Moon. You are granted the ability to cast the wish spell 1d3 times.
Both magic items have you explicitly casting the wish spell. The stress side effects occur when you cast the spell. So yes, you absolutely are subject to the side effects of Wish. There's no wiggle room here, RAW.
That also means that if you've failed your 33% roll in the past, you cannot use these items to cast more wishes, even if they have charges left in them.
This isn't as clear cut as you seem to think it is. The two examples you site provide different mechanisms for the player to cast the Wish spell.
The Moon card is quite clear. It grants the creature that drew it the ability to cast the Wish spell and that is all it does. The creature would be the one casting the spell and would need to be able to provide the Verbal component the spell requires.
The Ring of Three Wishes is different. The creature wearing the ring simply needs to use their action to expend one of the ring's charges. They do not need to provide the Verbal component normally required to cast the spell. Also, in the part of the item description you quoted it states explicitly a player uses their action to expend a charge to ". . . cast the Wish spell from it"[Emphasis added]. How this interacts with the negative consequences of casting the Wish spell is ambiguous and I feel recognizing this ambiguity is important.
Personally, I would have the player risk the negative consequences of casting the Wish spell regardless of whether it was cast from an item or not. But this comes from my sense of game balance rather than from the how the rules are written.
The Ring of Three Wishes is different. The creature wearing the ring simply needs to use their action to expend one of the ring's charges. They do not need to provide the Verbal component normally required to cast the spell. Also, in the part of the item description you quoted it states explicitly a player uses their action to expend a charge to ". . . cast the Wish spell from it"[Emphasis added]. How this interacts with the negative consequences of casting the Wish spell is ambiguous and I feel recognizing this ambiguity is important.
You're ignoring the most important word in there: "cast". Just because you aren't using spell slots or components doesn't mean you aren't casting the spell. DMG Chapter 7 gives all of the rules for casting spells with magic items.
And yes, while "Many items, such as potions, bypass the casting of a spell and confer the spell’s effects with their usual duration," the ring is not one of them. Potion of Speed is a good example of a magic item that doesn't cast the spell. See how it says that you 'gain the effects' of haste rather than 'you cast the haste spell.'
Question regarding the moon card. If you are a sorcerer and pull the moon card and have 3 wishes, you then use it for simulacrum, would the simulacrum have 2 wishes remaining from the moon card?
Moon. You are granted the ability to cast the wish spell 1d3 times.
So a Simulacrum isn't formed with any equipment, BUT the moon card notes that it grants the "ability to cast" the wish spell and makes no mention of using or needing the card for that. Bam, just like that, your character has the ability to cast wish and that should transfer over to a Simulacrum of yourself.
The big thing here is older editions you didn't "CAST" the spell from the item you just used the item to make the spell happen. In 5th ed now you "CAST" the spell so you can do things like if your a sorcerer you could change the damage type or other things like that since your CASTING the spell. This is a double edge sword since it now allows for spells being augmented but you would take negative effects if the spells has those since your casting it. The bonus to the item is no materials cost and most things regain charges, and they are at a set level so you could be a level 1 with a wand of fireball and be able to use it.
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So this section,
" The stress of casting this spell to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you. After enduring that stress, each time you cast a spell until you finish a long rest, you take 1d10 necrotic damage per level of that spell. This damage can't be reduced or prevented in any way. In addition, your Strength drops to 3, if it isn't 3 or lower already, for 2d4 days. For each of those days that you spend resting and doing nothing more than light activity, your remaining recovery time decreases by 2 days. Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again if you suffer this stress."
So in the scenario let's assume the wish is a non caster using an item or being granted a use of wish.
So my friend and I read this different. He says if you use wish from a ring of three wishes or deck of many things etc there are no negative penalties for say, a fighter or thief as they aren't casting it. I say then why would any wizard cast it at all except to make it a ring. I say any PC is casting the spell through say a ring, he says it just happens they dont cast it.. So would say a fighter, using a ring of wishes, to do something extraordinary other than duplicating a spell incur the strength drop. Or incur necrotic damage and have the 33% chance?
RAW, the item states that the wielder of the item expends a charge to cast the wish spell.
However, this could fall into DM ruling territory.
Only precedent I can think up is in the creation of the item, you have to expend a spell slot of the spells level and have the components on hand every day. I see this as casting the spell, my opinion only.
From this perspective, the spell has already been cast, activating the item allows the effect of the spell to be released from the item and applied at the level(s - in the case of multi charge per spell level items) it was cast into the item with the creator's save dc, etc.
Regardless, the item still says the wielder is the person casting the spell.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Ring of three wishes states:
The moon card from Deck of Many things states:
Both magic items have you explicitly casting the wish spell. The stress side effects occur when you cast the spell. So yes, you absolutely are subject to the side effects of Wish. There's no wiggle room here, RAW.
That also means that if you've failed your 33% roll in the past, you cannot use these items to cast more wishes, even if they have charges left in them.
RAW, using a magic item to cast wish risks losing the ability to cast it yourself later.
I personally would change it so that as long as it is a limited thing like the Ring of Wishes you don’t risk losing it permanently, even if you do deal with the stress damage and strength loss.
This isn't as clear cut as you seem to think it is. The two examples you site provide different mechanisms for the player to cast the Wish spell.
The Moon card is quite clear. It grants the creature that drew it the ability to cast the Wish spell and that is all it does. The creature would be the one casting the spell and would need to be able to provide the Verbal component the spell requires.
The Ring of Three Wishes is different. The creature wearing the ring simply needs to use their action to expend one of the ring's charges. They do not need to provide the Verbal component normally required to cast the spell. Also, in the part of the item description you quoted it states explicitly a player uses their action to expend a charge to ". . . cast the Wish spell from it"[Emphasis added]. How this interacts with the negative consequences of casting the Wish spell is ambiguous and I feel recognizing this ambiguity is important.
Personally, I would have the player risk the negative consequences of casting the Wish spell regardless of whether it was cast from an item or not. But this comes from my sense of game balance rather than from the how the rules are written.
You're ignoring the most important word in there: "cast". Just because you aren't using spell slots or components doesn't mean you aren't casting the spell. DMG Chapter 7 gives all of the rules for casting spells with magic items.
And yes, while "Many items, such as potions, bypass the casting of a spell and confer the spell’s effects with their usual duration," the ring is not one of them. Potion of Speed is a good example of a magic item that doesn't cast the spell. See how it says that you 'gain the effects' of haste rather than 'you cast the haste spell.'
Question regarding the moon card. If you are a sorcerer and pull the moon card and have 3 wishes, you then use it for simulacrum, would the simulacrum have 2 wishes remaining from the moon card?
Rules as Written I believe that's correct
So a Simulacrum isn't formed with any equipment, BUT the moon card notes that it grants the "ability to cast" the wish spell and makes no mention of using or needing the card for that. Bam, just like that, your character has the ability to cast wish and that should transfer over to a Simulacrum of yourself.
The big thing here is older editions you didn't "CAST" the spell from the item you just used the item to make the spell happen. In 5th ed now you "CAST" the spell so you can do things like if your a sorcerer you could change the damage type or other things like that since your CASTING the spell. This is a double edge sword since it now allows for spells being augmented but you would take negative effects if the spells has those since your casting it. The bonus to the item is no materials cost and most things regain charges, and they are at a set level so you could be a level 1 with a wand of fireball and be able to use it.